Palestinians under attack

[CMike]

This is a beautiful song about it.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152306269658717&set=vb.19793423716&type=2&theater

 

[Phil25]

On another site, a Pakistani Muslim was urging actions against Israel but, at one point was explaining things about Muslims in Pakistan.
He seemed like a person that may have just not had any information available to him and was therefore simply repeating what he had been taught.
I don't know.
But - the below is what I wrote in response.
I hope that those who do not understand what is currently happening in Israel and Gaza will read this and ask me questions.

In 1947 British India was partitioned into (West) Pakistan and India (and East Pakistan).
In 1947 British Palestine was partitioned into an Arab State and a Jewish State.
* - This Did Not Happen: Imagine if Great Britain gave away India in 1921 to the Hindus and declared that no Muslims could live there. Then, in 1947, partitioned the remaining West and East Pakistan between Hindus and Muslims.
What would you think?
* - This DID happen: In 1921, Great Britain gave the majority of British Palestine, all of the territory East of the Jordan river, to the Arabs and claimed that no Jews could live there.
They created a new country called Transjordan.

When British India was divided up between Pakistan and India, both peoples fought each other and there were an estimated 1 million casualties from that war.
There were approximately 14 million refugees, 1/2 Muslim and 1/2 Hindu, who were forced to leave their homeland and move to another state.
When the British left Palestine, the Jews accepted the partition plan and declared the Jewish State of Israel. The Arabs did not accept the partition plan and attacked the Jewish State of Israel. The local Arabs, along with the newly created states of Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq, attacked the Jews.
The Arabs lost.
However, the Arab countries did invade and take over what was supposed to be an independent Arab State under the Partition Plan.
Transjordan invaded and took the West bank of the Jordan River becoming the country of Jordan.
Egypt invaded and took over what is today Gaza.
There were about 400,000 to 600,000 Arab refugees that left what was then Israel.
There were also around 600,000 to 700,000 Jews that were forced out or left the Arab and Muslim countries where their forefathers had lived for generations.
Israel accepted all Jewish refugees.
The Arab countries accepted NO Arab refugees (with the later exception of Jordan) and instead placed the Arabs in concentration camps to be used against the Jewish State.
This action would be the same as if Pakistan would have taken the 7 million Moslem refugees from India and placed them, and all of their descendants, in Concentration Camps forever.

The Arabs refused to recognize the right of Israel to exist and continued attacking and murdering Israelis in Israel or - attacked and murdered pretty much anyone around the world in the Name of attacking Israel.

In 1967, Egypt, along with Syria and other Arab States, declared that they would wipe Israel off the map and massed its troops along the Israeli border and blockaded the Israeli port city of Eilat, an Act of War.
Israel attacked and wiped out the Arab forces.
Israel asked Jordan to stay neutral but, Jordan attacked and then Israel beat Jordan and took the West Bank of the Jordan river and Jerusalem.

The Arabs continued to refuse to recognize the right of Israel to exist and refused to negotiate peace treaties with Israel.
Arafat, the leader of the Arabs called Palestinians, continued to attack and murder Israelis, mainly from Jordan.
Then Arafat tried to overthrow the Jordanian government; they fought a war; he lost and Arafat's Palestinians fled to Lebanon.
They then tried to take over Lebanon and helped destroy that country until Israel invaded and kicked them out. Israel then left Lebanon, allying itself with the South Lebanese to create a buffer zone.

Egypt and Jordan made peace with Israel.
In exchange, Israel returned the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt, an area larger than all of Israel.
After the Palestinians had tried to destroy Jordan, Jordan did not want the West Bank back.

Israel tried to make peace with the Palestinians offering them their own State in return for peace.
Arafat and the Palestinians refused.
In 2000, they again began attacking and murdering Israeli's on a large scale basis.
Israel fought back and started building the Barrier between Israel and the Palestinians in the West Bank to prevent terror attacks against Israel.
The barrier has, for the large part worked and West Bank Palestinians are not able to attack and murder Israelis in the same way as they were before.
In 2005, Israel withdrew all of its troops and people from Gaza, destroying Israeli homes and settlements but leaving the successful Israeli greenhouse businesses.
The Palestinians destroyed the greenhouse businesses and began firing rockets at the Israelis.

In 2006, the Palestinians elected Hamas to rule Gaza. Hamas immediately declared war on Israel and murdered all of the non Hamas members of the Palestinian Authority and any other Arabs they did not like.
Hamas began attacking Israel with rockets on a constant basis.
The previous agreements - which included free passage in and out of Gaza and economic support of Gaza to develop industries were immediately canceled by both Israel and EGYPT, as Hamas had declared itself to be at war and a terrorist State.

After years of attacks murders by Hamas and, that Hamas refuses to negotiate or even agree to a cease fire, Israel has once more attacked Gaza and is determined to destroy its capabilities to make war.

Excellent Post, this deserves a Frubal

 

[ametist]

Absolutely.

Thank you.:-( my heart is with you all in the region. May peace and love pour on you all.

 

[CMike]

This explains the issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9ReF4UUa4E

 

[CMike]

Here is a bit more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTDPRtprKJQ

 

[loverOfTruth]

On another site, a Pakistani Muslim was urging actions against Israel but, at one point was explaining things about Muslims in Pakistan.
He seemed like a person that may have just not had any information available to him and was therefore simply repeating what he had been taught.
I don't know.
But - the below is what I wrote in response.
I hope that those who do not understand what is currently happening in Israel and Gaza will read this and ask me questions.

In 1947 British India was partitioned into (West) Pakistan and India (and East Pakistan).
In 1947 British Palestine was partitioned into an Arab State and a Jewish State.
* - This Did Not Happen: Imagine if Great Britain gave away India in 1921 to the Hindus and declared that no Muslims could live there. Then, in 1947, partitioned the remaining West and East Pakistan between Hindus and Muslims.
What would you think?
* - This DID happen: In 1921, Great Britain gave the majority of British Palestine, all of the territory East of the Jordan river, to the Arabs and claimed that no Jews could live there.
They created a new country called Transjordan.

When British India was divided up between Pakistan and India, both peoples fought each other and there were an estimated 1 million casualties from that war.
There were approximately 14 million refugees, 1/2 Muslim and 1/2 Hindu, who were forced to leave their homeland and move to another state.
When the British left Palestine, the Jews accepted the partition plan and declared the Jewish State of Israel. The Arabs did not accept the partition plan and attacked the Jewish State of Israel. The local Arabs, along with the newly created states of Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq, attacked the Jews.
The Arabs lost.
However, the Arab countries did invade and take over what was supposed to be an independent Arab State under the Partition Plan.
Transjordan invaded and took the West bank of the Jordan River becoming the country of Jordan.
Egypt invaded and took over what is today Gaza.
There were about 400,000 to 600,000 Arab refugees that left what was then Israel.
There were also around 600,000 to 700,000 Jews that were forced out or left the Arab and Muslim countries where their forefathers had lived for generations.
Israel accepted all Jewish refugees.
The Arab countries accepted NO Arab refugees (with the later exception of Jordan) and instead placed the Arabs in concentration camps to be used against the Jewish State.
This action would be the same as if Pakistan would have taken the 7 million Moslem refugees from India and placed them, and all of their descendants, in Concentration Camps forever.

The Arabs refused to recognize the right of Israel to exist and continued attacking and murdering Israelis in Israel or - attacked and murdered pretty much anyone around the world in the Name of attacking Israel.

In 1967, Egypt, along with Syria and other Arab States, declared that they would wipe Israel off the map and massed its troops along the Israeli border and blockaded the Israeli port city of Eilat, an Act of War.
Israel attacked and wiped out the Arab forces.
Israel asked Jordan to stay neutral but, Jordan attacked and then Israel beat Jordan and took the West Bank of the Jordan river and Jerusalem.

The Arabs continued to refuse to recognize the right of Israel to exist and refused to negotiate peace treaties with Israel.
Arafat, the leader of the Arabs called Palestinians, continued to attack and murder Israelis, mainly from Jordan.
Then Arafat tried to overthrow the Jordanian government; they fought a war; he lost and Arafat's Palestinians fled to Lebanon.
They then tried to take over Lebanon and helped destroy that country until Israel invaded and kicked them out. Israel then left Lebanon, allying itself with the South Lebanese to create a buffer zone.

Egypt and Jordan made peace with Israel.
In exchange, Israel returned the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt, an area larger than all of Israel.
After the Palestinians had tried to destroy Jordan, Jordan did not want the West Bank back.

Israel tried to make peace with the Palestinians offering them their own State in return for peace.
Arafat and the Palestinians refused.
In 2000, they again began attacking and murdering Israeli's on a large scale basis.
Israel fought back and started building the Barrier between Israel and the Palestinians in the West Bank to prevent terror attacks against Israel.
The barrier has, for the large part worked and West Bank Palestinians are not able to attack and murder Israelis in the same way as they were before.
In 2005, Israel withdrew all of its troops and people from Gaza, destroying Israeli homes and settlements but leaving the successful Israeli greenhouse businesses.
The Palestinians destroyed the greenhouse businesses and began firing rockets at the Israelis.

In 2006, the Palestinians elected Hamas to rule Gaza. Hamas immediately declared war on Israel and murdered all of the non Hamas members of the Palestinian Authority and any other Arabs they did not like.
Hamas began attacking Israel with rockets on a constant basis.
The previous agreements - which included free passage in and out of Gaza and economic support of Gaza to develop industries were immediately canceled by both Israel and EGYPT, as Hamas had declared itself to be at war and a terrorist State.

After years of attacks murders by Hamas and, that Hamas refuses to negotiate or even agree to a cease fire, Israel has once more attacked Gaza and is determined to destroy its capabilities to make war.

Some corrections needed ... you guys always leave out the part were the problem actually starts ...

"The conflict has been going on since the early 1900s, when the mostly-Arab, mostly-Muslim region was part of the Ottoman Empire and, starting in 1917, a "mandate" run by the British Empire. Hundreds of thousands of Jews were moving into the area, as part of a movement called Zionism among mostly European Jews to escape persecution and establish their own state in their ancestral homeland. (Later, large numbers of Middle Eastern Jews also moved to Israel, either to escape anti-Semitic violence or because they were forcibly expelled.)

Communal violence between Jews and Arabs in British Palestine began spiraling out of control. In 1947, the United Nations approved a plan to divide British Palestine into two mostly independent countries, one for Jews called Israel and one for Arabs called Palestine. Jerusalem, holy city for Jews and Muslims, was to be a special international zone.

The plan was never implemented. Arab leaders in the region saw it as European colonial theft and, in 1948, invaded to keep Palestine unified. The Israeli forces won the 1948 war, but they pushed well beyond the UN-designated borders to claim land that was to have been part of Palestine, including the western half of Jerusalem. They also uprooted and expelled entire Palestinian communities, creating about 700,000 refugees, whose descendants now number 7 million and are still considered refugees. "

Taken from How did this conflict start in the first place? which I would say is a pretty fair explanation of what happened...

By the way, there's a huge difference between the situation in India/Pakistan and Isreal/Palestine - they don't compare at all. In the case of the former, they divided the land between the existing population based on concentration of faith groups in the existing lands - and once that was decided, people just decided whether to migrate to the other side to be with the majority of their religious group or not (some stayed back where they were). Whereas in the case of the latter, outsiders (Jews from Europe) were brought in and given lands of the local even if they were minority and outsiders. No comparison at all.

Peace.

 

[Moishe3rd]

Some corrections needed ... you guys always leave out the part were the problem actually starts ...

"The conflict has been going on since the early 1900s, when the mostly-Arab, mostly-Muslim region was part of the Ottoman Empire and, starting in 1917, a "mandate" run by the British Empire. Hundreds of thousands of Jews were moving into the area, as part of a movement called Zionism among mostly European Jews to escape persecution and establish their own state in their ancestral homeland. (Later, large numbers of Middle Eastern Jews also moved to Israel, either to escape anti-Semitic violence or because they were forcibly expelled.)

Communal violence between Jews and Arabs in British Palestine began spiraling out of control. In 1947, the United Nations approved a plan to divide British Palestine into two mostly independent countries, one for Jews called Israel and one for Arabs called Palestine. Jerusalem, holy city for Jews and Muslims, was to be a special international zone.

The plan was never implemented. Arab leaders in the region saw it as European colonial theft and, in 1948, invaded to keep Palestine unified. The Israeli forces won the 1948 war, but they pushed well beyond the UN-designated borders to claim land that was to have been part of Palestine, including the western half of Jerusalem. They also uprooted and expelled entire Palestinian communities, creating about 700,000 refugees, whose descendants now number 7 million and are still considered refugees. "

Taken from How did this conflict start in the first place? which I would say is a pretty fair explanation of what happened...

By the way, there's a huge difference between the situation in India/Pakistan and Isreal/Palestine - they don't compare at all. In the case of the former, they divided the land between the existing population based on concentration of faith groups in the existing lands - and once that was decided, people just decided whether to migrate to the other side to be with the majority of their religious group or not (some stayed back where they were). Whereas in the case of the latter, outsiders (Jews from Europe) were brought in and given lands of the local even if they were minority and outsiders. No comparison at all.

Peace.

Your added background is a bit slanted.
However, it contradicts nothing I wrote.
As I explained, my original intent was to address the questions of a Pakistani Muslim. Hence, the comparisons.
Your inferences and concluding statement that Jews "were brought in and given lands of the local " is the basis of your argument.
This is untrue.
Jews purchased their land under the Ottoman Empire and later under the British Mandate.
You appear to be claiming that because the Arabs didn't like the Jews, they had the right to try out and drive them out.

 

[columbus]

bumping an earlier point...

Why isn't Jordan offering any of its (adjacent) land for the Palestinians? Why aren't any of the Arab leaders in the region helping out their fellow Arab Palestinians? Why is it up to Israel to do all the compromising?

Of course we can rule out the idea that Arab leaders are using the Palestinians as pawns...

I almost started a thread on this topic. I'll just respond here for now.

I see Zionism as the Palestinian people's 3rd worst problem. What is going on in Gaza right now is horrible, but hardly new.

The Palestinians single worst problem is the legacy of corrupt leaders. Arafat died mega rich. He didn't get that wealth from "performance bonuses". He stole it by embezzling from desperately poor Palestinian people. Hamas was elected freely and fairly because they were seen as less corrupt representatives.

The second worst problem Palestinians have is apathy amongst other Muslims. The gulf states are fairly floating in petrodollars. Al Qaeda and Isis and such find funding. But the Palestinians get little or nothing. Maybe I am missing something, since I only have English media to get information from. If the plight of the Palestinians is being addressed by rich Muslims let me know.

Then there is Israel. The Palestinians worst problem after Islam.

Tom

 

[CMike]

The Palestinian leadership could have peace at any time they choose not to.

 

[FearGod]

Updated news

The Israeli soldiers are still killing the children while Al qassam won on ground and many of the Israeli soldiers were killed while one was arrested and the rest fled from the battle field.

 

[beenie]

Updated news

The Israeli soldiers are still killing the children while Al qassam won on ground and many of the Israeli soldiers were killed while one was arrested and the rest fled from the battle field.

I don't consider the death of anyone a victory. This has to stop.

 

[FearGod]

I don't consider the death of anyone a victory. This has to stop.

The Israeli soldiers wanted to invade Gaza, their leaders don't care about them or even about their people.

Gaza doesn't want war but wants freedom,lets the Israeli leaders agree to give freedom for Gaza and peace and love will be the outcome.

 

[beenie]

The Israeli soldiers wanted to invade Gaza, their leaders don't care about them or even about their people.

Gaza doesn't want war but wants freedom,lets the Israeli leaders agree to give freedom for Gaza and peace and love will be the outcome.

It seems that neither side particularly cares about their people.

 

[columbus]

It seems that neither side particularly cares about their people.

There are about 25 Palestinian deaths for every Israeli death. Its obvious to me that the Zionists care more about their people than the Muslims.

It's just simple math.

Tom

 

[FearGod]

There are about 25 Palestinian deaths for every Israeli death. Its obvious to me that the Zionists care more about their people than the Muslims.

It's just simple math.

Tom

How did you know that it is 25:1, Did you count them ?

The Israeli leaders said that there is no injuries among their soldiers and Al qassam with video evidence showed that they were lying to their people and now their parents are shocked to know that their children were killed and not being told by the Israeli officials.

 

[columbus]

How did you know that it is 25:1, Did you count them ?

The Israeli leaders said that there is no injuries among their soldiers and Al qassam with video evidence showed that they were lying to their people and now their parents are shocked to know that their children were killed and not being told by the Israeli officials.

AlJazeera reports about 450 deaths. About 20 are Israeli.

They say their statistics are from Israeli and Gaza sources.

I should believe you instead?

Tom

 

[FearGod]

AlJazeera reports about 450 deaths. About 20 are Israeli.

They say their statistics are from Israeli and Gaza sources.

I should believe you instead?

Tom

LOL, your evidence is the media.

 

[columbus]

LOL, your evidence is the media.

As opposed to you.

Yeah I think aljazeera is a better source of information than you are...

Tom

 

[FearGod]

As opposed to you.

Yeah I think aljazeera is a better source of information than you are...

Tom

So Al jazeera counted the causalities.

I believe what make sense to me,1700 rockets were fired on Israel aside from those who were killed on ground.

 

[esmith]

So, let me get this straight. You are saying that Israel is in the wrong because they killed more people than Hamas did? I would say you might want to think what the death toll in Israel would be if the rockets fired by Hamas were not intercepted and shot down. Are you saying that Israel is at fault because Hamas is using civilians as a shield? Even the UN admitted that Hamas rockets were found in a school being funded by the UN. Did Israel reject the cease fire put forth by Egypt? No, they accepted it but Hamas rejected it. Until the people of Gaza decided they have had enough of the Hamas terrorist and eject them from Gaza they have no expectation of not having Israel protect "their" citizens from Hamas when Hamas attacks Israel.