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Palestinians under attack
- Thread starter Matemkar
- Start date
Bunyip
pro scapegoat
How would they know? A: History.
There is a perfect 100% proven track record of negotiations being futile. As the Meir quote you use demonstrates so eloquently, nobody would be stupid enough to have faith in negotiations with such a mindset.
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CMike
Well-Known Member
Because Israel keeps offering, and they keep declining.
Bunyip
pro scapegoat
Isreal offers negotiations that can never and have never acheived anything, not for over 60 years. The 'Peace process' would be an insult to the intelligence of an amoeba.
ametist
Active Member
this is not acceptable for us too. but you should show your good wishing and intention for palestinians. this sadly begins with trying to come together with palestenians current elected party. then you can one by one show to world and to palestinian what you can do and what you cant do and what are your concerns and why. then world will see better so will the palestinians. you are the strong hand. you should lead if there is gonna be peace. if anything goes wrong you still have your military power but in current case many palestians who voted for hamas are seeing their charter as a counter action to what israel has in mind and this last attack has almost been an affirmation to their understanding..
CMike
Well-Known Member
That's because the other side won't negotiate.
How would they know it never would achieve anything if they never engaged?
The fact, that they refuse to negotiate, said that they don't want a peaceful resolution.
CMike
Well-Known Member
The current attacked occured as a direct result of Hamas shooting missiles into Israeli cities and refusing to stop.
If anything Israel has been far too restrained and should have acted earlier.
Bunyip
pro scapegoat
Nobody would have faith in such negotiations, they are demonstrably futile - that is what created Hamas in the first place.
I haven't read it. But it's a mistake to seek out & dwell upon reasons to
continue fighting. Whatever it says, what matters is the reason they're
motivated to violence....it must be addressed.
Hamas is an organization of extreme fundamentalists dedicated to the eradication of Israel as a matter of principle.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
If you read their Charter you would understand what is motivating them and then you might begin to mull over how that can be addressed.
http://www.palestine-studies.org/files/pdf/jps/1734.pdf
If the charter said something different, it would end the violence?
Nah.
It reminds me of a typical landlord experience suing a tenant:
I make reasonable claims for exactly what is owed.
Tenant makes outrageous claims about how evil I am, eg, ruined their
lives, cooked their dog, promised not to charge rent, seduced their grandmothers.
On the surface, it looks too far apart for a reasonable compromise.
But do I proclaim....It it must be all out war! We'll fight to the last penny in court!
No.
Even though it seems tenants are determined to crush me, I explore compromises
which would satisfy them enuf to give me something reasonable, & avoid that disaster
which going to court is. (That's where the lawyers take everyone's money & leave.)
If one is dedicated to war & oppression because of something
said, then one is guaranteed continued war & oppression.
One more aphorism about peace:
Whether you believe you'll succeed or believe you'll fail,
either way, you're right.
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How do you adage so much certainty based on so little knowledge? Again: Hamas is programmatically committed to the eradication of the State of Israel by any means necessary.
"Adage" is now a verb? OK. One can focus on the charter, & resign oneself to endless
conflict, or one can become open to changing their motivation towards peace.
Otherwise it appears that one is blithely justifying continued war & oppression.
Btw, the only certainty I have is that a recurring cycle of intransigence & violence
has failed to produce peace. I'm also certain that neither side will win the war.
Therefore, it's time to try something different.
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ametist
Active Member
please dont get tired trying to tell them. they are convinced that the war is their only solution. i hope opposite party can get enough help for a balanced war.i was hoping to see jerusalem. i changed my mind for good after past weeks. i was really ashamed to read some posts here i really dont want to meet one of these people in real life.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Can someone please explain to me how does one negotiate with an element that publicly states over and over again, including in its own charter that it wants to destroy you, and then it follows up with the actions of doing exactly just that? Please give us the details of how you would respond is someone states that they want to not only remove you but that all of your people are fair game to be killed no matter where they may live, including your own children. Please explain exactly how your country would respond if missiles and rockets were poured into your country targeting your civilians?
Will those who always blame Israel actually try to deal with these questions, or will they just avoid them and again just turn it around and blame Israel? I don't know of any country whereas they would not either respond as Israel has or used even stronger force.
Will those who always blame Israel actually try to deal with these questions, or will they just avoid them and again just turn it around and blame Israel? I don't know of any country whereas they would not either respond as Israel has or used even stronger force.
What is your view of the Hamas Charter?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Such as...? How exactly would you respond to those who repeatedly state that they want you dead and then repeatedly try to do so? Specifics please.
I've made specific suggestions before, but I no longer will. It is
up to the parties involved to look past their certainty that the
other will forever be a deadly foe, & to find common ground.
What's the alternative?
1) Palestinians strike.
2) Israelis strike back.
3) Palestinians strike back.
4) Go to step 2.
How has this strategy been work'n for ya so far?
Do you think the results will change at some point?
J.J. Goldberg's For Peace To Win, Hamas Must Lose is well worth reading (as are most of his articles).