Palestinians under attack

[Jayhawker Soule]

There is nothing wrong with having less rights because you are minority? I understand that in most countries that majority rules, but that doesn't mean that minorities must be treated like second class citizens.

At the risk of derailing the thread: I'm sure the Arabs and Ethiopians in Israel would wholeheartedly agree with you.

 

[Phil25]

Phil25, WikiIslam is an islamophobic website which takes its sources from sunnism and even misquote and interpret them falsely.

And do you think non-christians should study Christianity from anti-Christian websites? It would be illogical, don't you agree?

Secondly, you need to listen to all sides before you make a judgment.

And if you want to study any issue in Islam, I suggest Al-Islam.org and islamquest.net and ShiaChat.com for your queries.

Back to the Dhimmi issue: the understanding of people (muslims and nonmuslims, even muslims of different denominations) might vary on it. And even if there were people who believed in the concept, the same as wiki"islam" portrays, it does not mean that the people who use the same words-terms for things, necessarily mean the same concepts. Because their understanding and definition of these terms might not be the same.

What I mean here is, at least you need to study my understanding (shia islamic) of the issues before you discuss Islamic concepts with me. And I need to tell you that, even the websites on shia islam won't give you the real picture. As there is so much disinformation about shia islamic faith out there.

Anyway, both of you can search about the description of this concept on the abovementioned websites.

And to adress the other issue, -of buying the lands-, xkatz, it did not happen as you alleged. There were jewish gangs who drove them out of their lands first, forcing some to "sell" their lands. Just check the earlier Jewish terrorist groups. And only few Palestinians accepted it. The others did not. And, let's suppose they sold their lands, selling the part of land does not mean it is out of the state territories, it still is a part of the country that needs to be run by the country. Lastly, it is clear, noone here studied the history and today of Palestine. The invasion, occupation, settlements and even the wars nowadays. Just looking into the issues with colored glasses. "Jews went to the holy land peacefully and the natives offered their lands themselves! No massacre, killing and displacing happened! But, because it is a developed territory now, the Arabs want it back!" This really is a joke.

Why should Muslims be getting equal rights in Western World, while you Muslims treat the minorites living in Islamic countries, as second class citizens. You guys build mosques anywhere you want in West, claiming that it is the Freedom of Religion, while whatever Churches remain in Islamic Countries gets blown up by Muslim terrorists. What the historical context or the Arabic meaning or the real meaning of "Dhimmi" or Sharia Law is doesnt matter to me, the truth is whenever Sharia Law has been applied in practice, Minorities have always been considered Second Class Citizens.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Why should Muslims be getting equal rights in Western World, while you Muslims treat the minorites living in Islamic countries, as second class citizens. You guys build mosques anywhere you want in West, claiming that it is the Freedom of Religion, while whatever Churches remain in Islamic Countries gets blown up by Muslim terrorists. What the historical context or the Arabic meaning or the real meaning of "Dhimmi" or Sharia Law is doesnt matter to me, the truth is whenever Sharia Law has been applied in practice, Minorities have always been considered Second Class Citizens.

So tell me what is it like to turn your back and despise your own brothers and sisters in Christ?

Palestinian Christian: Western Christians Don't Understand Gaza/Israeli Conflict

Please don't call yourself a Christian anymore.

1 John 4:20: If anyone says, I love God, and hates a brother or sister, he is a liar, because the person who doesn't love a brother or sister who can be seen can't love God, who can't be seen.

I am waiting for the cognitive dissonance to kick in.

 

[Phil25]

So tell me what is it like to turn your back and despise your own brothers and sisters in Christ?

Palestinian Christian: Western Christians Don't Understand Gaza/Israeli Conflict

Please don't call yourself a Christian anymore.

1 John 4:20: If anyone says, I love God, and hates a brother or sister, he is a liar, because the person who doesn't love a brother or sister who can be seen can't love God, who can't be seen.

Palestinian Christians are way safer in Israel than Palestine. There was a time in 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s, when there was Arab Nationalism and not Islamism in M.E. Palestinian Christians could identify as Arabs but Now, only Muslims considered Arabs.. Sure there might be some discrimination against Christians by Israelis as there is Anti-Semitism in USA. But at least Churches are not blown apart by Israelias as is the case in rest of M.E. With Muslim terrorist groups like Hamas around, due you think it is best for Palestinian Christians to stay in Palestine. It is best for Palestinian Christians to leave Palestine. If Palestine was to independent and Hamas remain in Power, you could see something like the case of Mariam Yehya Ibrahim in Sudan Sudanese Christian Mariam Yehya Ibrahim tells of ordeal - CNN.com
Trust me there is a reason why Christians are decreasing in Iraq, Egypt, Lebanon etc. I am in support of Israel for the best interest of Palestinian Christians.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/2838/palestinians-christians

 

[Quagmire]

Sorry, I corrected my sentence. I didn't mean you don't believe in sin. I meant that you don't think that money-hunger and greed are sins, don't you?

My mother says: if Jesus had been born in a royal palace instead of a stable, probably the Jews would have recognized him as the Messiah.

This tells a lot

About your mother. :yes:

 

[Curious_Cat]

Why dont Australians go back to wherever you guys come from. Stealing land from Aboriginals.....

Very true, Im not english though, I have german and aboriginal blood. And I am actively involved in the Aboriginal cause.

First step towards reconciliation, accept that you are wrong.

Nice comparison though 200 years with a mere 50, how many generations are we talking about?

 

[Bunyip]

Why dont Australians go back to wherever you guys come from. Stealing land from Aboriginals.....

Where I came from is England, my son is from Australia. Oh and neither of us own any land.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So tell me what is it like to turn your back and despise your own brothers and sisters in Christ?

Palestinian Christian: Western Christians Don't Understand Gaza/Israeli Conflict

Please don't call yourself a Christian anymore.

1 John 4:20: If anyone says, I love God, and hates a brother or sister, he is a liar, because the person who doesn't love a brother or sister who can be seen can't love God, who can't be seen.

I am waiting for the cognitive dissonance to kick in.

The Jerusalem Declaration on Christian Zionism is a document signed on behalf of the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem (Catholic), the Syrian Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem, the Episcopal Church in Jerusalem and the Middle East, and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Jordan and the Holy Land. It is dated August 22, 2006. The Declaration does reject Christian Zionism, concluding that it is a "false teaching that corrupts the biblical message of love, justice and reconciliation."[1][2] All of the above Churches in support of the Declaration are local and include Palestinian Christians.

Jerusalem Declaration on Christian Zionism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Jerusalem Declaration on Christian Zionism, by Riah Abu El-Assal, Swerios Malki Mourad, His Beatitude Michel Sabbah, His Grace Bishop Dr. Munib Younan
Holy Land Christian Ecumenical Foundation

Honestly, Christians don't really have a dog in the fight.

 

[FearGod]

What's more extremist than Hamas?

They have shot over a thousand rockets into Israeli cities and use their own civilians as human shields.

It's like asking if we got rid of Hitler who would replace him?

Israel is killing civilians mostly children by air strike.

What that differ of striking Israel with rockets.

The difference is that air strike can give best results for killing more civilians.

 

[Matemkar]

Why should Muslims be getting equal rights in Western World, while you Muslims treat the minorites living in Islamic countries, as second class citizens. You guys build mosques anywhere you want in West, claiming that it is the Freedom of Religion, while whatever Churches remain in Islamic Countries gets blown up by Muslim terrorists. What the historical context or the Arabic meaning or the real meaning of "Dhimmi" or Sharia Law is doesnt matter to me, the truth is whenever Sharia Law has been applied in practice, Minorities have always been considered Second Class Citizens.

Are you discussing faith or are you discussing what the "subscribers" of faiths do using the name of religion?

Firstly building Mosques anywhere we want is absurd, not true for any western country.

Secondly, the belief that I subscribe to limits building of the mosques, as per Jafari Islamic Jurisprudence, there shouldn't be built more than one mosque in a certain distance.

Thirdly, Islam does not say anything against worshipping places of the people of the scriptures.

[youtube]gEUX-T7ST8I[/youtube]
Isfahan's Minorities-Iran-06-03-2012 - YouTube

[youtube]Pl-lzIlsDAw[/youtube]
The Black Church-Iran-07-31-2011 - YouTube

[youtube]Ok2mwf7a6ko[/youtube]
Christmas in Tehran - YouTube

Fourthly, why give terrorists blowing up churches as examples to Islam? Do you think they represent Islam? No, they don't. What is more ironic is, those terorists are funded and armed by the western governments to be able to do that. If we check what the Christians in Syria, Lebanon and Iraq, they would help us understand what the causes of tragedy here is. This video can be a start:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJQcQ_NG54M

And if you really think the western backed cavemen terrorists represent Islam, then can you please refer to a text that I accept (Quranic verse and shia islamic narration) on the issue which supports their terrorist acts? No, you can't. Because what they do (blowing up mosques, churches, shrines, etc.) is unislamic.

And why does the truth not matter to you? So that you show extremists as "examples" to that faith so as to deny it? Really absurd.

And again, if you have any question regarding Islam, to get to know the views of muslims of different denomination, please refer to the Islam Dir here for your queries.

I really do not want to derail the thread.

 

[Sunstone]

Israel is killing civilians mostly children by air strike.

How many children do you think would be dead by now if Israel were actually targeting children? Do you think it would be a hundred? Or thousands?

 

[FearGod]

How many children do you think would be dead by now if Israel were actually targeting children? Do you think it would be a hundred? Or thousands?

Why to kill civilians at first place regardless of the number killed ?

 

[Sunstone]

Why to kill civilians at first place regardless of the number killed ?

You're side-stepping the question. Does that mean you concede the Israelis are not purposely attacking children?

 

[FearGod]

You're side-stepping the question. Does that mean you concede the Israelis are not purposely attacking children?

My question is clear.

Why killing civilians regardless of the number ?

 

[Sunstone]

My question is clear.

Why killing civilians regardless of the number ?

Only a fool expects no accidents during a war. I had a friend once who, when the US was about to invade Iraq, told me there would be no civilians killed. I told him he was a fool to think that. Anyone who thinks no civilians will be killed during a war is a fool. Are you a fool?

Now, you man up and answer my question: How many kids do you think would be dead by now if the Israelis were purposely targeting kids?

The death of any kid during a war is both tragic and odious. The difference between a man and a beast is that a man sees that, while a beast thinks killing other people's kids in retaliation for the deaths of his own kids is somehow morally justified. Innocent lives for innocent lives is not the mathematics of a moral person, but rather a beast.

 

[FearGod]

Only a fool expects no accidents during a war. I had a friend once who, when the US was about to invade Iraq, told me there would be no civilians killed. I told him he was a fool to think that. Anyone who thinks no civilians will be killed during a war is a fool. Are you a fool?

Now, you man up and answer my question: How many kids do you think would be dead by now if the Israelis were purposely targeting kids?

No ain't fool but are you fool to believe so?

Do you think by destroying civilian buildings is a brave and a legitimate war ?

I think who do such kind of wars are cowards and their supporters are too.

 

[Sunstone]

Do you think by destroying civilian buildings is a brave and a legitimate war ?

I think who do such kind of wars are cowards and their supporters are too.

Then you agree with me that Hamas and those who support their attempts to destroy civilian buildings -- to say nothing of murdering civilians themselves -- are cowards?

Again, the death of children and civilians is both tragic and odious. But to think that the death of some children and civilians justifies the death of even more children and civilians is the mark of a beast.

 

[FearGod]

Then you agree with me that Hamas and those who support their attempts to destroy civilian buildings -- to say nothing of murdering civilians themselves -- are cowards?

Again, the death of children and civilians is both tragic and odious. But to think that the death of some children and civilians justifies the death of even more children and civilians is the mark of a beast.

No the brave war should be in ground face to face.

The Israeli soldiers are cowards as to reach the borders of Gaza and to fight .

Palestinians send letters to the Israeli soldiers to fight face to face and leave civilians alone but the Israeli soldiers are afraid to approach Gaza even though they were protected by air, they run once hearing a sound of gun.

Palestinian sang a song in hebrew asking them to be a real men and to fight as men do and not to run to their holes once hearing the sound of the sirens.

[youtube]HiUWgWjL24U[/youtube]
‫

 

[Sunstone]

No the brave war should be in ground face to face.

The Israeli soldiers are cowards as to reach the borders of Gaza and to fight .

Palestinians send letters to the Israeli soldiers to fight face to face and leave civilians alone but the Israeli soldiers are afraid to approach Gaza even though they were protected by air, they run once hearing a sound of gun.

Palestinian sang a song in hebrew asking them to be a real men and to fight as men do and not to run to their holes once hearing the sound of the sirens.

[youtube]HiUWgWjL24U[/youtube]
‫

Congratulations! Nothing like chest-pounding bravado to help out a situation.

 

[FearGod]

Congratulations! Nothing like chest-pounding bravado to help out a situation.

It isn't about chest-pounding bravado but as to save civilians then soldiers have to fight along the borders. The Israeli soldiers are cowards and their borders are protected by the air force.