Parents Rights On Transgender Policy

[lewisnotmiller]

The choice to keep a certain information from their parents. If the secret in question doesn't bring about any harm, what reason do we have to disrespect that choice? The same rationale is applicable to both adults and children.

If my child is struggling in Maths, should the school tell me? Why/why not?

 

[Heyo]

Yes, they have a right as the child is theirs.

This seems to be a typical US view, based in their slave holder past. I find the notion to own a human being disturbing.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This seems to be a typical US view, based in their slave holder past. I find the notion to own a human being disturbing.

I'm not sure if it's related to slavery (I think more nations would have similar views if it were true), but rather that America is excessively and detrimentally slow and often reluctant to catch up with the rest of the world. I'm still surprised, afterall, that America legalized gay marriage before Australia. It might, but it's probably many issues that created it, like religion (Wisconsin v Yoder) amd rigid individuality (not supposed to comment on people's parenting). Add in the Castle Doctrine and I'm not surprised kids are commonly viewed as property here. It's all about me in a society that utterly lacks any sort of celebration of children like many, many other cultures do.

 

[Koldo]

If my child is struggling in Maths, should the school tell me? Why/why not?

Depends. Has the school tried to figured out what is going on and then tried to help the student before contacting the parents? There is a multitude of things that might be happening, many of which only the school itself can properly remedy.

Now, what exactly is the parallel between a student struggling with a subject and a student that happens to identify as trans?

 

[Stevicus]

I'm not sure if it's related to slavery (I think more nations would have similar views if it were true), but rather that America is excessively and detrimentally slow and often reluctant to catch up with the rest of the world. I'm still surprised, afterall, that America legalized gay marriage before Australia. It might, but it's probably many issues that created it, like religion (Wisconsin v Yoder) amd rigid individuality (not supposed to comment on people's parenting). Add in the Castle Doctrine and I'm not surprised kids are commonly viewed as property here. It's all about me in a society that utterly lacks any sort of celebration of children like many, many other cultures do.

I agree, and I would also add that I've observed a certain cultural trope in which it is generally believed that the very process of becoming a parent somehow magically imbues the parent with some kind of sage, great "wisdom," implying that only they know what is best for their children. This kind of mentality is what enables child abuse and forces children to live in a prison imposed by their parents until they're 18.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Parents don't have a negative right in this situation, because the teacher is by law the local parent. The birth parents have already given permission to the teacher to act as parent. It is not a matter of rights

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Can you extrapolate?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Depends. Has the school tried to figured out what is going on and then tried to help the student before contacting the parents? There is a multitude of things that might be happening, many of which only the school itself can properly remedy.

Strange school, that wouldn't let a parent know their kid is struggling in maths, whatever corrective action is being taken. But if you find that question difficult, should they let the parent know if their child is being bullied? If there is a head injury? If there is reason to suspect the child has an eating disorder?
Why/why not?

Now, what exactly is the parallel between a student struggling with a subject and a student that happens to identify as trans?

Exactly? Nothing, of course. But we seem to tie ourselves in knots with transgender issues. The school is going to call me if my child is struggling with English, and ask me to read more to my child. But I am likely not a trained teacher (I mean...I am...but in general terms). They are likely to call me if there is a head injury, but I'm not a doctor. They are likely to call me if my child is being bullied, but I'm neither a psychologist, nor do they know what advice I am likely to give my child for dealing with bullying. If my child is purging after lunch, or tossing their lunch in the bin, they're likely to call me.

In all these cases, I am probably NOT a trained 'expert' in dealing with these situations. Neither, incidentally, are the teachers, apart from in the maths/English case, and even then it's highly variable.
Yet the school calls me.

Now the suggestion is that the school shouldn't call me if my child is suffering from gender dysmorphia, because...well...I'm not sure why. Because I might be a bad dude?

I think we tie ourselves in knots with transgender issues when we don't need to. A child going through transition needs support. Schools normally drag in parents to provide support to their kids. For everyone who has made comments about parents, and their capability, training, or safety in dealing with these type of issues....I was a teacher. I was an early 20s male, who cared deeply for the kids in his care, but was an early 20s male. I'm infinitely more capable of supporting a child in difficult situations now, and however deeply I cared for the kids I taught, I'm infintely more invested in my own daughters.

Yet many seem to think this is the one occasion where the parents should be excluded, because they're not experts, and they might mistreat the child.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Yet many seem to think this is the one occasion where the parents should be excluded, because they're not experts, and they might mistreat the child.

I think that is correct. And I also think there might be a bit of a cultural-type barrier going on, where you might be seeing things from the perspective of your country, where some of us are seeing things from the perspective of the US, where parents being wise and loving can very well happen, but also shouldn't be assumed.

 

[Koldo]

Strange school, that wouldn't let a parent know their kid is struggling in maths, whatever corrective action is being taken.

It is very easy to push problems of our own making into others. If we have a bad teacher problem, for example, then how is contacting the parents going to solve it?

But if you find that question difficult, should they let the parent know if their child is being bullied? If there is a head injury? If there is reason to suspect the child has an eating disorder?
Why/why not?

I don't find that question to be difficult at all. Why would I? If the child is being bullied in school grounds, the school should be the one to handle the bullying. But since bullying can extend beyond the school's reach, letting the parents aware of what is going on is the responsible course of action, even more so if the school is unable to provide proper psychological support.

Head injuries and eating disorders are harmful conditions. The school should obviously contact the parents.

But once again, none of those things have a parallel with identifying as trans.

Exactly? Nothing, of course. But we seem to tie ourselves in knots with transgender issues. The school is going to call me if my child is struggling with English, and ask me to read more to my child. But I am likely not a trained teacher (I mean...I am...but in general terms).

And that should NOT be the default way to handle this. It is however the easiest way which is why it is done so often. The mentality is: Your child, your problem.

They are likely to call me if there is a head injury, but I'm not a doctor.

Any responsible parent will ask the school what happened if they notice the injury, so one might as well explain what happened in advance. Not to mention that you might want to take extra precautions.

They are likely to call me if my child is being bullied, but I'm neither a psychologist, nor do they know what advice I am likely to give my child for dealing with bullying.

Since bullying can extend beyond school grounds, that is generally a good idea. Whatever way you teach your kids how to deal with bullying, it is better than letting them suffer through it.

If my child is purging after lunch, or tossing their lunch in the bin, they're likely to call me.

As they should. After all, you are going to need to be involved in the process to watch out what is going on at home. You might even want to hire a specialist to deal with this.

In all these cases, I am probably NOT a trained 'expert' in dealing with these situations. Neither, incidentally, are the teachers, apart from in the maths/English case, and even then it's highly variable.
Yet the school calls me.

Now the suggestion is that the school shouldn't call me if my child is suffering from gender dysmorphia, because...well...I'm not sure why. Because I might be a bad dude?

I think we tie ourselves in knots with transgender issues when we don't need to. A child going through transition needs support. Schools normally drag in parents to provide support to their kids. For everyone who has made comments about parents, and their capability, training, or safety in dealing with these type of issues....I was a teacher. I was an early 20s male, who cared deeply for the kids in his care, but was an early 20s male. I'm infinitely more capable of supporting a child in difficult situations now, and however deeply I cared for the kids I taught, I'm infintely more invested in my own daughters.

Yet many seem to think this is the one occasion where the parents should be excluded, because they're not experts, and they might mistreat the child.

In every single example you have provided, the parents can be reasonably expected to either improve the situation or at least not make it worse. Trans issues are different though, because conservatives in general, which is a sizeable part of the population in many countries, will make the situation worse, much worse. So yes, on this case, calling the parents can't be the standard procedure.

Plus, you have mentioned a child suffering from gender dysphoria. Whereas that might not even be the case at all.

 

[Heyo]

Strange school, that wouldn't let a parent know their kid is struggling in maths, whatever corrective action is being taken. But if you find that question difficult, should they let the parent know if their child is being bullied? If there is a head injury? If there is reason to suspect the child has an eating disorder?
Why/why not?

The maths grade is on the school report, that is the usual way to let the parents know and it is not confidential.

All other things are not on the curriculum and don't need to be reported but can if there is an understanding between teachers and parents. Except when the pupil doesn't want it. Then their right to privacy overrules the deal between parents and teachers.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Can you extrapolate?

What and further embarrass myself? You are a cruel man.

What I mean is that school has become a babysitting service, but more than that in law the teacher is called 'Loco parentis' a latin term meaning "instead of a parent." The babysitter has a responsibility to the child to report any danger and to protect the child. That responsibility to protect the child reflects the child's right to be protected, not a parents right to protect them in my opinion. If a babysitter neglects a child and that child is harmed we do not say the babysitter's right to protect was violated, because that is nonsense. No, the child's right to be protected was violated through the babysitter's negligence in such a situation. Where is the parental right?

"...Originally derived from English common law, the doctrine is applied in two separate areas of the law. First, it grants educational institutions such as colleges and schools discretion to act in the best interests of their students, although not allowing what would be considered violations of the students' civil liberties.[2] Second, this doctrine may allow a non-biological parent to exercise the legal rights and responsibilities of a biological parent if they have held themselves out as the parent..." --https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_loco_parentis​

The child might have a right to be protected, too, even from its parents.

Do the parents have a right, here? The law requires parents to school their children, and so in many families it is taking away their protection of their child and replacing them. I think this shows the parents either don't have a right or have waved it. One exception I can think of: is that since parents are required by law to give their children years of education, poor parents may not have waved such a right having been forced to send their children to public school. Perhaps they have not waved it (if that right exists). Some parents also can teach their own children or choose which school to send them into, so by choosing to send them to a public school they may have waved such right.

I am not saying that schools shouldn't communicate with parents. That is part of their responsibility, since the parents are the direct guardians of the child. The school, by not communicating, may cause the parents to fail in their responsibility. It is like breaking chain of command. Its not about rights but concerns who is responsible for what.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Canadians. Always so nice and polite, even when disagreeing. I guess we Americans could learn a thing or two from you guys.

LOL We didn't even say "Sorry" yet though.

...Or maybe you can learn from us about how to be nasty.

Oh, I've been taking notes.

 

[fantome profane]

If my child is struggling in Maths, should the school tell me? Why/why not?

Yes, because that is what schools are suppose to do, they are suppose to teach math.

Despite what many in this thread seem to think it is not the role of schools to enforce gender conformity.

When I was a kid my parents had to sign my report card, and there were interim reports, and sometimes when I failed a test my parents had to sign that. But never did they report to my parents how masucline or feminine I was. That was not their job.

 

[icehorse]

In an accepting society, I see a strong argument for requiring school staff to let parents know about their child's gender identity, especially so that the parents could further explore the subject with their child. In an environment where there are many parents who wouldn't hesitate to abuse or even disown their children over such a thing, however, I think the question is far more complicated, and the practical consideration of the children's safety may entail removing such a requirement.

If some people want schools to feel safe reporting such things to parents, maybe they can start by talking about this with the parents who have made it clear that they could endanger their own child's mental or even physical safety if they found out that their child didn't fit into the tight boxes of being cisgender and heterosexual.

Unless we want to be Orwellian, shouldn't we assume good parenting?

 

[icehorse]

Nope, nope, nope.
It is already time for people to realize that children are not property.

Parents have legal responsibilities to take good care of their children.

 

[icehorse]

You're right. We shouldn't be activating their trans or gay modes.

Oh, wait.

Do you think there are any social factors involved here? I thought the TRAs told us that these things are SOCIAL CONSTRUCTS?

SO are they social, or do they emerge spontaneously?

 

[icehorse]

Seriously, why does that matter?

Well, what's your definition of "gender"? What's your definition of "sex"?

The TRAs are trying to conflate those two words and the realities that underlie them, and that matters a great deal.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Well, what's your definition of "gender"? What's your definition of "sex"?

The TRAs are trying to conflate those two words and the realities that underlie them, and that matters a great deal.

No, they're not.

 

[Soandso]

Well, what's your definition of "gender"? What's your definition of "sex"?

The TRAs are trying to conflate those two words and the realities that underlie them, and that matters a great deal.

Even if that were true, which it's definitely not, is 0.5% of the population really going to be able to change that much in an entire society? Like, realistically

 

[icehorse]

Right. It's a fabricated moral panic that's being used as a political tool. Like you've said they've been around forever, yet only recently have people starting soiling themselves over it. It's one of the many nothingburgers that conservatives use to distract and manipulate dopes into voting against their own interests.

Trans people are NOT the same thing as trans activism.

(One would think that this is obvious, but on RF the conflation is positively rampant!)