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Paris terrorists not Practicing Muslims at all
- Thread starter Lyndon
- Start date
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Nope. That is what is called an unsubstantiated "assumption", on your part. He hasn't said anything that should lead you to believe this. Might just be your own prejudice.Sharia law to you means stoning.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
That is what they are. A "caliphate" is a form of Islamic government led by a caliph - a person considered a political and religious successor to the Islamic prophet, Muhammad, and a leader of the entire Muslim community. All of this matches up with the Islamic State. Even their leader is from the same blood line as Muhammad (so he claims). No YouTube needed, but I did enjoy your pathetic attempt at humor.
And how you know that the IS is the caliphate, is't because they said we're the caliphate and you are happy to believe they're while we Muslims don't believe them.
Sharia law to you means stoning.
Well, no. That's not the entirety of Shari'a, but to most Islamists, stoning is indeed a part of Shari'a. I'm pretty sure you are aware of that. It seems to me that stoning is hardly the only negative aspect of Shari'a, too.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Wrong again. You merely have to make the claim and have your adherents agree to it. And, it doesn't even matter really. They are a caliphate in their own minds, which, yet again, supports the idea that they are Muslims.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
He said that tens of millions of Muslims agree with stoning, and his evidence that they accepted in Egypt
the Sharia law during the reign of president Mursi.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Doesn't matter who believes them. I'm not saying that they are THE caliphate. I am saying they consider themselves to be A caliphate, representing the interests of all Muslims led by a Caliph who claims to be decended from Muhammad. Whether or not they are right about that is irrelevant.
Can't even have a logical debate with some people, they just spout nonsense.
No, they consider themselves to be THE predicted Califate, and practically no Muslims accept their claim.
Wu Wei
ursus senum severiorum and ex-Bisy Backson
Have no emotion either way and still not going to argue the point with you
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
That isn't true, stoning were used by the Jews and it's the sharia of the Jews and not the Muslims,
Jesus(i don't know of you know him) fought the Jews because of stoning, so the stoning is the
product of the Jews and not the Sharia, but maybe you're happy to believe that Shariah law
is permitting the stoning as the fact it is the Jews, oh sorry i mentioned the Jews here, how bad i'm.
I think you are still misunderstanding at least part of what I'm saying. Most Islamists clearly support stoning, among other things, in their interpretation of Shari'a. Millions of Muslims in Egypt alone voted for those parties knowing about their vision of Shari'a and Islam. The election results weren't a surprise to me because most people I know agree with Islamists on a lot of things, including their interpretation of Shari'a.
Bear in mind that I have been focusing on election results and public opinion in Egypt only in this thread, even though I think we both know what millions of Muslims in Saudi Arabia believe, for example.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Maybe you misread, but he never said that. He said that a majority in Egypt voted for someone who was, most likely, going to institute some form of Shria law (which I don't necessarily agree with). He never said what you claim he did.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you have stated that you don't accept a lot of hadiths, right? In this case, you are not one of the Muslims I'm talking about. The Muslims I'm talking about view stoning as a part of Islamic law.
And no, I'm not "happy" that so many Muslims accept stoning as a part of Shari'a; I really wish things were different, but it is simple fact that there are millions of Muslims who view it as part of a divine law.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Nevertheless, they are still "a" caliphate according to what that term means. All that is required is the claim that they represent all Muslims. There is no requirement for Muslims to accept that claim. Maybe they aren't an officially recognized caliphate, but they are still a caliphate according to the general meaning of the term.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
What's your point of stoning and terrorism ? why you're mentioning it here ?
You don't even have a clue what a Califate is, do some research!!
It seems to me that I will inevitably have to restate my argument, so here it goes:
1) The OP made the claim that the terrorists who carried out the Paris attacks were not practicing Muslims.
2) I responded saying that a lot of the members of ISIS and Al-Qaeda are indeed practicing Muslims (like bin Laden himself, whom a lot of Muslims consider a hero, at least where I live), and that tens of millions of Muslims supported things like stoning, lashing, and killing homosexuals, which was made evident in their voting choices when they voted for fundamentalist (Islamist) parties that had a particularly harsh interpretation of Shari'a.
So I'm mentioning these things to respond to the OP, who seems to be arguing that "true" or "practicing" Muslims can't be violent.
If you are inclined to, I recommend looking up Hazem Salah Abu Ismail in Arabic. Just read some of the comments on articles mentioning him and listen to his own words. This is a man whose pictures were lifted up high in Islamist demonstrations where over a million people gathered in a public square in Egypt. He refused to call bin Laden a non-believer and said "May Allah have mercy on him." Millions of Egyptians support him. Actually, I just asked my older brother whom he would vote for president if he had the free choice to. He said, "Abu Ismail."
I think I know well about the two countries I've spent my entire life in, FearGod. I'm not some stranger who is making arguments out of the blue; this is stuff I have been researching, reading about, and listening to stuff about for years now. I struggled with it as a Muslim and wanted things to be different, but they are what they are. I guess we just don't share the same view of the Muslim world if you believe that most Muslims are moderate people who don't support anything violent like stoning or lashing.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
LOL ... right back at ya. I am going by encyclopedia/dictionary sources. Not difficult to see I'm right. Just look up "caliphate definition" in Google, and you will see the following:
A caliphate (Arabic: خِلافة khilāfa) is a form of Islamic government led by a caliph(Arabic: خَليفة khalīfah pronunciation (help. · info))—a person considered a political and religious successor to the Islamic prophet, Muhammad (Muḥammad ibn ʿAbdullāh), and a leader of the entire Muslim community.