Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Render unto Ceasar the things that are Ceasar's.
Matthew 22:21
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Pastor alarmed after Trump-loving congregants deride Jesus' teachings as 'weak'
- Thread starter Father Heathen
- Start date
Matthew 22:21
When there was such a charity world? Maybe in the Garden of Eden? Since that, there seems to have always been leaders who demand others to pay.
Letting everyone be free and donate to others, if they wish, is in my opinion less money obsessed than socialism.
What could socialism fix?
Every useful thing could be as well funded with voluntary payments. Mandatory taxation is only required when there are people who would not otherwise get money, because their ideas are not really worth it.
It seems to me that you don't understand the question.
Why do you think so?
And cooperative groups that are not forced to cooperate are probably more efficient and at least happier than those who are forced and under tyranny.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
You oppose taxation yet you regularly use those services.
Really? So greey and selfish people can get away with paying nothing? You seem to have a bad attitude about the function of government so should we trust that you would pony up your fair share? What keeps you from calling most government programs as socialist and you refuse to contribute?
Give us some examples of ideas that are not worth it. We all know there have been bad investments in bogis projects, and also corruption by officials. This is not what we are talking about. We are talking about how we need a well funded government to help citizens go about their lives with efficiency.
Every imaginary world is perfect.
Are you suggesting citizens be free loaders? No, you're saying no one pays anything. Above you say it should be voluntary, but you reveal that you probably wouldn't. If no one contributes to create collective advantages then it is ararchy, and every man for himself. Obviously humans noticed that doesn't work, yet you never got the memo.
Who cares about the means that others are taken care of? Is it that right wing propaganda has caused you to recoil at the word "socialism"? Have you noticed that red towns, and red counties, and red states don't use the honor system? They tax too. That's because they know there needs to be a reliable way to cover the costs of running a society.
You are guessing due to your right wing bias. Can you point to any nation in the world that uses the honor syetem successfully?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Degrees of income disparity. Healthcare for all. Moving out of the stone age with highways and so many other things we use daily in today's world. Public education for all. On and on and on and...
Your pie-in-the sky wish is totally unreasonable as history has repeatedly shown, so I don't have to speculate.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
You asked how Jesus' teachings and examples are antithetical to conservative ideology, and the examples I provided would've been dismissed as "woke" or "socialist" by conservatives if they were spoken by anyone other than Jesus. Thus it seems like the inability or unwillingness or understand is on you.
So, will you be renouncing your faith or your ideology? Remember, God's watching. I'll pray for you.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
In every cooperative group, there is some way to enforce group rules and responsibilities.
Your desire to only do what you want and not cooperate makes you an outlier. You will either end up punished or exiled from any cooperative group. Which means that you will not do as well in life as those within the cooperative group.
By what I see, socialism, which by Marx is the same as communism, is cancer of a nation. It ultimately destroys any nation that is under it. It promises many things, but it really doesn't deliver them. For example, even if everyone would have same wage, there would be income disparity, because not all do equal amount of work.
And one funny thing is, in Finland that has extremely high taxation rate, it is said that it must be so because of "free healthcare", yet one must still pay, if one uses it. And it can be difficult to get "free healthcare", that is why there is separate private healthcare system for those who work.
Pure socialism doesn't work, because if no one owns, no one cares. If all people would care, there would be no socialism and people would have everything nicely, because everyone would care.
That happens anyway. With socialism, it is easier in certain point to get everything without paying.
The problem with all mandatory tax based systems is, they become inefficient, because the money is guaranteed and the one who get the money don't care how it is used. If it would be voluntarily, people could stop paying when they see the money is not used properly. This is why I think there should not be any mandatory taxation.
But, if we have mandatory taxation, I think the money should be used only to matters that can be argued to be beneficial for all people. These would be:
1. Healthcare (I think this is also problematic, because it leads to higher cost of medicines and healthcare, as happens in all monopolies).
2. Education
3. Basic infra
4. Justice system, including police
5. Fire brigade
6. Simple government to take care that these are provided in a way that is good and efficient for the people. Governments should not be rulers of people, but servants of them.
No, that is why I am against socialism.
I think there is really no left and right in politics, there is only upper and lower class. Both main parties in U.S. have those who are for the upper class and it may be that there are few of those who are for the lower class, for the common people. Most of the decisions politicians make, are for the benefit of the upper class. The lower class is only remembered in pretty speeches that are done to get the votes. They don't really care about poor people, they care only of their own power and money. And socialism is a very good word for them to use, because with it poor people can be tricked to vote them to make life even more miserable for all.
I oppose mandatory taxation, because I think it makes everyone a slave. But, why would I not use the services, if I pay them anyway?
I think I would pay anyway for the services that are useful.
Sorry, I don't think that is true.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
People tried your way. It does not work. Find a way that works and then you can object to the current system.
Sorry, I don't think that is true.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
And it does not matter what you think. Who cares? You need to support your claims. The early Pilgrims in America tried your system. It did not work. People not only need to have freedom to work and pay money, there has to be a way to make them pay. Otherwise one doesn't pay and people see that there are no consequences then that person is joined by another and another and another. Pretty soon the service is not worth paying for any more. Like it or being force to pay taxes is good for you.