Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Here's a test:
What is hideous, insensitive and cruel about ordering soldiers to stab babies to death?
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Pat Robertson says Haiti under a Curse
- Thread starter tumbleweed41
- Start date
Here's a test:
What is hideous, insensitive and cruel about ordering soldiers to stab babies to death?
Parents are responsible for minor children.
That is also why babies drowned in the flood.
Adam by disobedience to God became independent from his Creator by his God choosing to disobey God's law. By Adam taking the law into his own hands then Adam set up people rule over God rule.
People chose, like today, to use their free will to do as they please.
Some nations were sacrificing live children in fire to their pagan gods.
Deuteronomy 18:10 They were beyond reform or repentance.
The trouble is the bible does not limit itself to these. It gives people the justification for all kinds of negative interpretations too. And no one can even say for sure it's right. Never mind, it's pointless. You aren't going to understand so let's just forget it.
Pat Robertson is way off base. There are hundreds of natural disastors that occur world round every year. Too many so-called Bible experts say it is "God's wrath" being poured out.
They are wrong. I am a Bible student and can point out it is as administration of God's grace at this time.
It is God's goodness that should lead to repentance.
They are wrong. I am a Bible student and can point out it is as administration of God's grace at this time.
It is God's goodness that should lead to repentance.
OneThatGotAway
Servant of Yahweh God Almighty
Originally Posted by OneThatGotAway
It is written that God is control of everything in the earth, including earthquakes. If he is not, then he is not God.
To prove that God is in control of say, the earthquake in Haiti, you would have to show that it was not the result of natural plate tectonics.
Since it cannot be shown that your god is in control of naturally occurring phenomena, then by your own statement, he is not God.
What a relief.....
Well, the only proof that I have is His Word which records his acts and the testimony of His servants. It is written that he created the heavens and the earth and all that is in them. And it is written that he controls (directly / indirectly) the earth. By faith, I believe those testimonies in the Holy Bible to be true. And thus, I can prove through the Bible that He is God. Of course, one would have to believe that the Bible is true in order for all of this to make sense. :yes:
OneThatGotAway
Servant of Yahweh God Almighty
Originally Posted by OneThatGotAway
I am not chasing no one away. I am participating in a religious debate. I am sharing my religious viewpoints the same as you and everybody else in this forum is doing. Just because you don't agree with my exegesis of the Scriptures doesn't mean that I am chasing someone. I resent that statement because it is utterly false. Sometimes these kinds of viewpoints are something that needs to be discussed no matter how unpopular it may be. I back my view point up with the Holy Scriptures which testifies that I am not the only one who share this viewpoint. Furthermore, many holy men (like Jeremiah & Isaiah) in the past and today (like Pat Robertson) still share this viewpoint and they don't sugar coat what is written in the Holy Bible.
You quote Jesus. I quote Yahweh. You quoted the New Testament. I quote the Jewish Tanakh and other Scriptures. It is not new that every scholar, pastor, pope, teacher, or rabbi will believe on the same subject. But they respect each other's freedom of speech to voice their opinion. Therefore, if you want to debate, then let us debate without the shouting and false accusations. I don't agree with everyone here on this forum but I respect their right to voice their opinions with shouting at them or insulting them. Now I know how Jeremiah felt when the men slapped him in the face for saying unpopular things about future destructions.
It is written that God is control of everything in the earth, including earthquakes. If he is not, then he is not God.
I think you have no idea of how you come across. Auto isn't the only one on this forum that finds your comments abhorrent. You chase away in the sense that people that have any sense of decency at all will never want to serve a god as ugly as you paint yours to be. I guess the saying "give them enough rope" is right. You and Pat only appeal to people who like to think they are superior and everyone else is evil. Personally I am sorry for people who hold these beliefs because I can't even start to imagine what these beliefs do to your psyche.
I beg to differ. I do understand that this kind of belief is repulsive to many people. Nevertheless, I believe it is a belief that should be considered. I have learned that, instead of running away from beliefs that are abhorrent, it is worth giving it a benefit of the doubt and researching it in order to come to a better conclusion. When I first heard and read something like this in the Holy Bible, I too was taken back and greatly disturbed by it. But someone in my heart told me to not jump to conclusion so quickly and research this phenomena further. It is my decency that cause me to give someone the benefit of the doubt before writing them off as being unlearned. I want to know the who, what, when, where, and why. Otherwise, I would not be able to understand the Book of Job. But I took Job's examples and applied it to his events and other events today. And I came away understanding more of how God works.
I need to point out one thing that I have overlook. God do allow Shatan to wreak havoc in this world. But God uses Shatan to punish the evil doer. Sometimes Shatan acts outside the will of God and does more than he should. So I must apologize that this too could have been the case in Haiti. That is not to say that God may not have cause the earthquake himself. I'm just saying that He may have delegated the judgement to one of his Angels or to the Devil. But I still don't think that will give anyone any warm and fuzzy knowing this either. I'm just simply expressing another belief on the subject.
I think you misjudge me. I like to appeal to everybody: small and great. In fact, I don't think that I am not better than most people in this world. And I don't think that everyone else is evil. I think there are both good and evil people in this world. Both great and small. As far as my psyche, I rejoice knowing that God is in control and that his righteous acts will eventually make everything right. All souls lost in the life will be save in the next. I would hate to believe that I am limited in what I am allow to read and research; my open-mindness caused me to ask the same questions as Job did. I am glad the Book of Job (among other books) help me understand the question: If God is Almighty, why would he allow evil in this world? Why would God allow the innocent to suffer? My scientific mind urges me to ask those kinds of questions when I read the Holy Bible. Again, I don't mean to offend anyone here. Be they athiest, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Taoist, Buddhist, etc. :candle:
Shaluum
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
There mere fact of "it is written" does not "prove" God, it is only a statement of faith, as you said " By faith, I believe those testimonies in the Holy Bible to be true.".
You may believe, through faith, that God is the cause, but observable evidence shows that the quake was a result of plate tectonics.
Faith=/=Evidence
Anti-thesisofreason
Explorer
Sorry didn't read fully my mistake. Disregard this post.
Charity
Let's go racing boys !
God's wrath must have ticked off Mother Nature, and you know how it is to provoke the fury of a woman....A disaster occurs.
I have never believed that when a disaster occurs that it is the "wrath of God", it's nothing but an act of nature, nothing more, nothing less.
Well, first I would like to say I do not view you as evil. I think you are trying to make sense of your world like everyone else. I would ask you this though. I asked this of someone else in another thread recently because it has been on my mind lately. The bible that so many seem to think is the final word of god may not be. 3000 years ago it is possible that the people writing the torah and then later the NT were not spiritually or intellectually evolved enough to get an unbiased unfiltered understanding of what god wants or how he works. They did the best they could given their understanding of the world. If there is a god, why would he quit trying to get his points across? As the world matures would he not try again and again to get his point across, especially if it really wasn't quite right the previous times? As our natural children mature, do we not change the way we communicate with them. Do we not give them ever increasing complexity to aid their understanding? Why wouldn't god do the same thing. I believe he would. Being stuck in a mindset of 2-3 thousand years ago does not seem to be a benefit to anyone imo. We now know that earthquakes are caused by tectonic plates shifting due to great pressures from under the earth's crust. We no longer need to ascribe a supernatural meaning to a natural earth event. We no longer have to believe god is wrathful. I don't see any benefit whatsoever continuing to have these beliefs, especially if they are not accurate, and are harmful.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Bingo! Yahtzee! BINGBINGBINGBINGBINGBING!
That's right.
Not sure God is, or was, "trying to get a point across" through the Bible. The Bible has historically (until the Reformation, anyway) been viewed as the testament of the Faithful. Just because the canon has been closed does not mean that the Church has not continued that testament in other ways.
We believe that God does just that -- not in hopes that we will finally "get it," but in hopes that we will continue to work toward reconciliation as we grow.
I don't believe that's what God intends for us.
Once again you have answered correctly. "'Breaking Plates' for $500, Alex."
Would you care to go for the bonus round and the brand-new car?
Xy could use more folks like you.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Yup. It does not follow that minor children are responsible for the sins of their parents. Any moral system that would order adult soldiers to slaughter babies because of the alleged sins of their parents (with no trial or opportunity to determine what their parents did) is so morally abhorrent it should be stamped out.
That is also why babies drowned in the flood.
What difference does it make what some nations did? How on earth would that justify stabbing the babies of other nations to death?
Let's go along with your slander. "Oh no, they're killing their babies! We better kill their babies!" That makes sense--not.
Hey, you're right, your religion advocates killing babies. What a horrible religion. It needs to be annihilated.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
And why would one believe the Bible?
lunamoth
Will to love
Robertson's remarks, as usual, are asinine and do not reflect the vast majority of Christian response to the disaster in Haiti.
I think the worldwide relief efforts mounted by Christian organizations speak much louder and truer to our principles.
Church World Service : Home
I think the worldwide relief efforts mounted by Christian organizations speak much louder and truer to our principles.
Church World Service : Home
Thanks Sojourner, I'll take that car!
Those Canaanite nations were burning their babies alive in sacrifice to pagan gods. -Deut 18:10. Those pagan nations were executed. There is a difference between an execution for justice and killing or murder.
Once the political world goes against or turns against this world's religious sector there will again be divine intervention- Isaiah 11:4; Rev 19:11,15, and parents will be responsible for minor children.
No where in first-century Christianity did Jesus say to kill 'in his name'.
While on earth- Matt 26:52- Jesus did not advocate killing. Rev 13:10 shows that after being resurrected to heaven Jesus still has not changed his mind.
Rather, it is the religious leaders that use the pulpit as a recruiting station in order to have parents sacrifice their children on the alter of war. Not Jesus.
gnostic
The Lost One
uravip2me said:
Say who?
I remember a story in the bible (Book of Judges) about a Judge of Israel (don't remember who, or don't which chapter) asked for victory from God in a war against one of the enemies (don't remember which enemy), and will sacrifice the first person he meet back at his hometown to God. And that Judge did gain victory, and the first person he met was his own daughter.
If human sacrifice was so abhor to god, then why did give victory to this Judge? And why did god not stop the sacrifice, if god truly despise human sacrifice (of children)?
The bible speaks of nothing against the sacrifice taking place, but it admires the girl's courage for willingly being the sacrificial victim for God. Hence, the hypocrisy of the bible. It say one thing, but it is alright to do another thing, if you are doing it for this one god.
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tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
Judges 11
30And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the LORD, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands, 31Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering.
33And he smote them from Aroer, even till thou come to Minnith, even twenty cities, and unto the plain of the vineyards, with a very great slaughter. Thus the children of Ammon were subdued before the children of Israel. 34And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: and she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter.
35And it came to pass, when he saw her, that he rent his clothes, and said, Alas, my daughter! thou hast brought me very low, and thou art one of them that trouble me: for I have opened my mouth unto the LORD, and I cannot go back.
39And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man. And it was a custom in Israel,
40That the daughters of Israel went yearly to lament the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in a year.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Please explain to me how slicing a baby in two with a sword could ever be an "execution for justice."
btw, if I had any interest in converting to Christianity, you've turned me against it.
TheNorthernExodus
Member
I am very late in this thread and I confess I have not read a page of it but my opinion of Pat Roberts is thus:
He is a complete and utter tool, given a circumstance where he and anyone who has posted on this thread so far were on a cliff edge and I only had time to save one (unlikely I know) your *** is saved.
I get the feeling from watching him, and I do watch him more than I should (the 700club is my Jerry Springer show of Christian misfits), that he has not one ounce of genuine pity for any misery inflicted upon a none Christian, and damned little even if you are one.
He is a complete and utter tool, given a circumstance where he and anyone who has posted on this thread so far were on a cliff edge and I only had time to save one (unlikely I know) your *** is saved.
I get the feeling from watching him, and I do watch him more than I should (the 700club is my Jerry Springer show of Christian misfits), that he has not one ounce of genuine pity for any misery inflicted upon a none Christian, and damned little even if you are one.