Ped0philia

[Kerr]

They don't WISH to rape the victim, but it's the only possible way.

I get what you mean. Dont hate pedophiles or think they are less then human... but I do think we should keep a closer eye on them, because if they ever act on their desires the consequences is a ruined life.

And to be honest, if they dont act on their desires, if they keep themselves in check, then I guess I can respect that, just as I respect anyone who has to struggle with themselves. I have ADHD myself, and while it is far from similar to pedophilia it means I have had to work a lot with myself. To overcome my own issues. Will just not bet the safety of any child on my rather terrible judgement of character.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

No, I know what you're trying to say I just think you're wrong. I'm disagreeing with you.

It's rape, they want to rape them, they pretend it isn't and imagine sex with a child that isn't rape and yet that act is.

It's how it works.

A truly celibate pedophile gets some respect from me for overcoming his desires, but no more so than any person who is voluntarily celibate but not asexual.

Pedophilia is stigmatized because it's how we protect children.

I never disagreed that it is rape, but just pretending it isn't rape proves my point. If they pretend it isn't, they wish it wasn't that way.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I get what you mean. Dont hate pedophiles or think they are less then human... but I do think we should keep a closer eye on them, because if they ever act on their desires the consequences is a ruined life.

And to be honest, if they dont act on their desires, if they keep themselves in check, then I guess I can respect that, just as I respect anyone who has to struggle with themselves. I have ADHD myself, and while it is far from similar to pedophilia it means I have had to work a lot with myself. To overcome my own issues. Will just not bet the safety of any child on my rather terrible judgement of character.

That's what I was talking about, thanks for understanding

 

[Drolefille]

I never disagreed that it is rape, but just pretending it isn't rape proves my point. If they pretend it isn't, they wish it wasn't that way.

No, it's lying to themselves and justifying their fantasies and any future actions that they have.

Sometimes rapists pretend that a woman they're thinking about raping really wants it or is in to them. Sometimes they pretend or fantasize that a lesbian they know will become straight after the magical power of their sexual organ touches them. That doesn't mean they're not getting off on rape. This isn't like someone with a rape fantasy with no interest in actually being raped either. Pedophilia is attraction and orientation towards children but this is not something you can separate from rape.


Sorry, I outright disagree with you. Saying they want the child and not rape is justification, not logic.

 

[Badran]

No, it's lying to themselves and justifying their fantasies and any future actions that they have.

Sometimes rapists pretend that a woman they're thinking about raping really wants it or is in to them. Sometimes they pretend or fantasize that a lesbian they know will become straight after the magical power of their sexual organ touches them. That doesn't mean they're not getting off on rape. This isn't like someone with a rape fantasy with no interest in actually being raped either. Pedophilia is attraction and orientation towards children but this is not something you can separate from rape.


Sorry, I outright disagree with you. Saying they want the child and not rape is justification, not logic.

Which definition are you thinking of for pedophile? Is it someone who can be attracted to children or someone who is only attracted to children?

If the second, i can see where you would be coming from. If the first, then i have to disagree, because in that case its entirely possible they're only attracted to the physical appearance and thats it.

If they are only attracted to the physical appearance, that does not mean or necessitate in anyway that what they're getting off on in their heads is rape.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

No, it's lying to themselves and justifying their fantasies and any future actions that they have.

Sometimes rapists pretend that a woman they're thinking about raping really wants it or is in to them. Sometimes they pretend or fantasize that a lesbian they know will become straight after the magical power of their sexual organ touches them. That doesn't mean they're not getting off on rape. This isn't like someone with a rape fantasy with no interest in actually being raped either. Pedophilia is attraction and orientation towards children but this is not something you can separate from rape.


Sorry, I outright disagree with you. Saying they want the child and not rape is justification, not logic.

But there's a difference between getting off on rape and getting off from rape.

 

[Drolefille]

Which definition are you thinking of for pedophile? Is it someone who can be attracted to children or someone who is only attracted to children?

If the second, i can see where you would be coming from. If the first, then i have to disagree, because in that case its entirely possible they're only attracted to the physical appearance and thats it.

If they are only attracted to the physical appearance, that does not mean or necessitate in anyway that what they're getting off on in their heads is rape.

Someone whose primary orientation and preferred sexual partner would be a child. Most people society classifies as pedophile are heterosexual males. They molest, abuse and/or rape children, but their orientation isn't towards children and the act is more about power, violation, access, and a lot of other things in addition to the sexual act. This is the majority of legal pedophiles.

I'm talking about the minority - those who are primarily if not exclusively sexually attracted to children. A child would be their preferred sexual partner. Since the thread was talking about pedophiles who were non-abusers, that's been my working definition

 

[Drolefille]

But there's a difference between getting off on rape and getting off from rape.

....What.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

....What.

That's been my point the whole time.

 

[Drolefille]

That's been my point the whole time.

You're trying to say that getting off on the idea of rape itself is somehow different than getting off on something that just so happens to (oopsie) be rape?

No. I think you're flat out wrong and I think this is a huge logical and thinking error. Rape is rape. It's not a side effect. It's the action. Pedophiles are getting off on the idea of a rape. Anything else is just an attempt to justify said fantasies as acceptable.

 

[Badran]

Someone whose primary orientation and preferred sexual partner would be a child. Most people society classifies as pedophile are heterosexual males. They molest, abuse and/or rape children, but their orientation isn't towards children and the act is more about power, violation, access, and a lot of other things in addition to the sexual act. This is the majority of legal pedophiles.

I'm talking about the minority - those who are primarily if not exclusively sexually attracted to children. A child would be their preferred sexual partner. Since the thread was talking about pedophiles who were non-abusers, that's been my working definition

I agree with you then, as i think for this to be the case it has to be more than just the physical appearance.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

You're trying to say that getting off on the idea of rape itself is somehow different than getting off on something that just so happens to (oopsie) be rape?

No. I think you're flat out wrong and I think this is a huge logical and thinking error. Rape is rape. It's not a side effect. It's the action. Pedophiles are getting off on the idea of a rape. Anything else is just an attempt to justify said fantasies as acceptable.

If they got off on the idea of rape they wouldn't be a pedophile, they'd be a "rape-o-phile".

They get off to children, the act of it is rape, but they don't get off to it being rape.

 

[Father Heathen]

I most certainly doubt people would choose to be a pedophile, if they do not choose it then it is natural and it is a sexuality.

Do people choose their mental disorders?

 

[Drolefille]

If they got off on the idea of rape they wouldn't be a pedophile, they'd be a "rape-o-phile".

They get off to children, the act of it is rape, but they don't get off to it being rape.

Neither the field of psychology nor the field of child abuse and offender treatment make those distinctions because they don't exist.

A serial rapist who gets off on violence wouldn't be a rapeophiliac, he'd be a (likely) heterosexual male with an obsession with violence and probably a sociopath.

A pedophile is mentally getting off on rape whether they're imagining a 'consensual' encounter or not.

You're not going to convince me otherwise here. This is not me misunderstanding you. I think you're wrong.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Do people choose their mental disorders?

Do you have proof it's a mental disorder?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Neither the field of psychology nor the field of child abuse and offender treatment make those distinctions because they don't exist.

A serial rapist who gets off on violence wouldn't be a rapeophiliac, he'd be a (likely) heterosexual male with an obsession with violence and probably a sociopath.

A pedophile is mentally getting off on rape whether they're imagining a 'consensual' encounter or not.

They do get off from something that involves rape, but the rape itself is not what turns them on, it is the children... If it were SOMEHOW possible to not rape children while doing it, I'm sure they'd still feel sexually pleasured.

You're not going to convince me otherwise here. This is not me misunderstanding you. I think you're wrong.

 

[ChristineES]

That's totally not hating on people for their sexuality :sarcastic

Did I say I hated them? No. I wouldn't leave a book of matches or a lighter near a pyromaniac. I wouldn't leave a valuables around a kleptomaniac. That isn't hate, that is precaution. Children are vulnerable and my kids are special needs, which made them extra vulnerable. Edit: My sons are 16 and 19, so I don't worry as much. I do worry about the 19 year old, since he has the finesse at times of a much younger child.

 

[Songbird]

If they got off on the idea of rape they wouldn't be a pedophile, they'd be a "rape-o-phile".

They get off to children, the act of it is rape, but they don't get off to it being rape.

You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of adults who want to have sex with children.

People who desire children sexually experienced a higher rate of childhood abuse themselves. Sex Offender Management Myths and Facts - NY DCJS

Also, people who desire children sexually "get off to children" because of children's inability to reason, protest, and defend themselves adequately. If they simply adored children, they would go to great lengths learning and enforcing what is best for children.

Children's bodies are not ready for sexuality with adults, as high levels of injury attests. An adult who wants a full range of sexual intimacy can only get that from a consenting adult.

That's not to say that children aren't sexual, or that some people aren't born with desire for children. But the thing that makes a grown up attracted to a child is the thing that is repulsive by nature - a love of harming others for the sake of one's own pleasure.

 

[ChristineES]

I can't speak about pedophiles who never had sex with a child, but I have little (or no) tolerance for any person who harms a child- especially rape or molestation. I get an irrational anger when I think about it. I get the same feeling about women being raped, people being tortured, and abuse. I like to think myself as tolerant, but my tolerance doesn't extend to those who harm others for pleasure. It makes me sick.

 

[Drolefille]

You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of adults who want to have sex with children.

People who desire children sexually experienced a higher rate of childhood abuse themselves. Sex Offender Management Myths and Facts - NY DCJS

Also, people who desire children sexually "get off to children" because of children's inability to reason, protest, and defend themselves adequately. If they simply adored children, they would go to great lengths learning and enforcing what is best for children.

Children's bodies are not ready for sexuality with adults, as high levels of injury attests. An adult who wants a full range of sexual intimacy can only get that from a consenting adult.

That's not to say that children aren't sexual, or that some people aren't born with desire for children. But the thing that makes a grown up attracted to a child is the thing that is repulsive by nature - a love of harming others for the sake of one's own pleasure.

Actually, there is a distinct differenece between the most common offender - a hetersexual male who is everything you're describing- and a person primarily oriented towards children. There are people that are attracted to children who want nothing to do with harming a child and would never act on those desires because they recognize how abhorrent it is. I would say that their orientation is actually a mental disorder as there is no way to act on it without harming a child.

But yes, sum is missing the facts of the situation here.
I wish i had my source material from when i was working in the field. We did treatment forjuvenile sex offenders, victims of child sexual abuse and psychoeducational classes for family members about what abuse is, etc. I'm not an expert in the field by any means, but I've had quite a bit of training here.