Pedophilic Culture

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

What individual precautions would you take against getting raped as an individual?

- Recognizing signs of controlling behavior
- Recognizing signs of manipulation
- Recognizing signs of lack of empathy
- Recognizing signs of anger control issues
- Avoiding a potential partner who shows these signs
- Being cognizant of your surroundings
- Trust the sick feeling one gets in the gut

These are just a few.

Does this mean that I am responsible if I get raped? No. In postulating that this kind of information makes someone "at fault" if they are raped? No. Your thinking is black and white, all or nothing, and this kind of polarized thinking, regardless of which side of the debate you are on, is part of the problem.

We don't teach people not to rape, actually. You are ignoring reality if you think we do.

Look up the local news. Watch crime dramas. Listen to people talk to each other about what happens to people like this in prison. It is common knowledge that rape is deemed immoral and criminal behavior in our societies. Now; do we do enough to teach what constitutes "informed consent?" Are there dummies in this world who don't understand that being sexually intimate with someone who is inebriated or unconscious is rape? In many places, no; in some places, maybe. Your thinking is black and white, all or nothing, and this kind of polarized thinking, regardless of which side of the debate you are on, is part of the problem.

None of those prevent rape with total certainty. Teetotallers are still being raped, and pepper sprays don't help when you're being raped by e.g. your boss, or in a situation where you wouldn't have it right besides you.

This kind of magical thinking blames women for "not doing enough" to not get raped, and for not being tuff enuf to not be a victim.

No human being -- man, woman or child -- should be "blamed for not doing enough" when they are a victim of this atrocious crime. Teaching rape prevention is not synonymous with victim blaming. Your thinking is black and white, all or nothing, and this kind of polarized thinking, regardless of which side of the debate you are on, is part of the problem.

Fact of the matter is that it is rapists who decide when and whom to rape, not their victims.

Yes. And you know what? There is actually patterns to be found in victim selection and the personality traits of rapists.

Is that what you would tell an individual who was raped despite taking your "precautions"?

No. I know this question wasn't directed at me, but mercy me, no. I would feel anger and pity and sadness for the victim; because no matter how many or how few precautions they took, it is not their fault that someone took advantage of them in their moment of vulnerability. Helping them to NOT be vulnerable is not the synonymous with blaming them if they are. Your thinking is black and white, all or nothing, and this kind of polarized thinking, regardless of which side of the debate you are on, is part of the problem.

 

[Kooky]

One stat which is a bit more difficult to find is what percentage of men are actually rapists. I found this link from Quora: (3) What percentage of men are rapists? - Quora



Other answers mentioned it could be 6% or even as low as 1%, at least in the United States. It may be different in other regions of the world.

So, the vast majority of men (90% or more) are not rapists. Most men in the US, Canada, UK, etc. know that it's wrong to rape women (or men, for that matter). But there's still that 5-10% who still do - or have done it in their past. (I'm not necessarily relying on the statistics presented, although if there are any reliable sources one might know of, please let me know.)

The overwhelming majority of men who commit sexual assault tend to not identify it as such, so if any of these statistics are derived from questionnaires and are not extremely careful with how they word their items, I strongly doubt that they would get accurate results in synch with the actual number of men accused or convicted of sexual assault or the attempt thereof.

This problem is compounded by the fact that the majority of sexual assaults are not reported to the police, and therefore do not result in convictions - and that is for a crime with disproportionally small conviction rate to begin with, as by their very nature, evidence in sexual assault cases is typically hard to come by even if the police do their job properly, which they frequently do not (and this is even worse in cases of male victims of assault). So even if we were to get accurate results of the disproportionally low number of rapists who have actually been convicted for their crime, that would touch only a fraction of the men who have actually assaulted people sexually.

The Criminal Justice System: Statistics | RAINN

What we can glean from statistics, however, is that a large number of convicted rapists tend to be serial rapists.
We also know that the majority of convicted rapists are known to their victims, with a third being former spouses, ex boyfriends etc.

Perpetrators of Sexual Violence: Statistics | RAINN

 

[Kooky]

Yes. And you know what? There is actually patterns to be found in victim selection and the personality traits of rapists.

Yes, one of the most noticeable patters is being an ex boyfriend or ex husband.

 

[Kooky]

- Recognizing signs of controlling behavior
- Recognizing signs of manipulation
- Recognizing signs of lack of empathy
- Recognizing signs of anger control issues
- Avoiding a potential partner who shows these signs
- Being cognizant of your surroundings
- Trust the sick feeling one gets in the gut

How often have you recognized these flags at the start of a relationship or encounter, and how often have you recognized them only after the fact, in retrospect?

Do you think this check list is a reliable method of preventing people from getting raped?
If yes, do you have evidence, or at least personal anecdotes to support that claim?

Look up the local news. Watch crime dramas. Listen to people talk to each other about what happens to people like this in prison. It is common knowledge that rape is deemed immoral and criminal behavior in our societies. Now; do we do enough to teach what constitutes "informed consent?" Are there dummies in this world who don't understand that being sexually intimate with someone who is inebriated or unconscious is rape? In many places, no; in some places, maybe. Your thinking is black and white, all or nothing, and this kind of polarized thinking, regardless of which side of the debate you are on, is part of the problem.

Your response here are a bunch of platitudes without substance.

Do you actually know how many young men are actually being taught the importance of consent in sexual relationships? Do you even think that valueing consent is an important component in not being a rapist to begin with?

No human being -- man, woman or child -- should be "blamed for not doing enough" when they are a victim of this atrocious crime.

And yet, it happens all the time.

Rape victims aren't being helped when they are being berated for not having been confident enough, for "looking like a victim", for not having iterated the correct set of actions that would certainly stop all rape from happening (the irony being of course, that they do not actually prevent rape from happening, because rape is a complex issue and rapists can be encountered in many different situations where most "advice" will not apply).

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Yes, one of the most noticeable patters is being an ex boyfriend or ex husband.

There are so many scholarly articles written on the subject, and this is the best you can come up with? You are completely out of touch with the complex psychological factors involved in rape that you are striking out at something you don't understand. Please try to understand it so that you can be an effective weapon against this atrocious crime; where your words and actions can actually have an effect on the safety of potential victims and the mental health of potential rapists so that you're doing more than jousting at windmills.

https://shareok.org/bitstream/handle/11244/9466/Voller_okstate_0664M_2201.pdf?sequence=1

https://fioria.us/advice-for-moms/13-characteristics-of-a-date-rapist-a-list-you-need-to-share/

 

[Kooky]

There are so many scholarly articles written on the subject, and this is the best you can come up with? You are completely out of touch with the complex psychological factors involved in rape that you are striking out at something you don't understand.

I understand that the majority of rape victims were raped by acquaintances or ex boyfriends/ex husbands.

Do you disagree with that statistic, or is there another reason why you consider it irrelevant here?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Maybe your "we" isn't my "we". Because my "we" teaches, and has taught for generations, people not to rape. My "we" told me not to have sex unless the person was willing. My "we" was a culture of, "if someone rapes our family member, they better hope the police get to them before we do". My "we" had a popular T.V. show about how horrible rape is and how rapists deserve punishment.

Many individuals and groups do, but society collectively does not. That we often tells women all the ways they have to be accountable for fighting off rape. I was never made to really think about it or put into conversations dealing with it until after I began presenting as female.

Boys will be boys isn't about rape. That's why there is controversy, for most people you are falsely conflating male rambunctiousness with rape.

I've seen it get used in that way, such as when student-athletes are involved. And it does have connotations to all manners of male behaviors, including misbehaving sexually.

But Kavanaugh was a teenager at the time. Of course he was different then; he was a third of the age he is now. And teens do stupid, dangerous and destructive things.

Barack Obama was a member of his Hawaii high school’s “Choom Gang,” which was named after its taste for marijuana. Obama and his buddies would roll up the windows in their car when they were getting high, then tilt their heads back, and inhale the smoke that had collected under the ceiling.

John F. Kennedy lost his virginity to a prostitute in Harlem when he was 17; fearing that he had contracted venereal disease, he spent the rest of the night in a panicked search for a physician.

Jeb Bush was a noted partier at Andover, which put him on probation for drinking. Taller than most of his peers, Bush bullied several of them.

Mitt Romney was a bully, too, teasing an effeminate classmate for his long hair. Together with several friends, Romney cornered him with a scissors and cut off most of it.

The author is basically saying guys will do bad things that guys do, and partying too much, smoking cannabis, and bullying are things guys do when they are younger and different, but not only that, sexual misconduct is on par with all the rest of the stuff guys do when they are young.

 

[Kooky]

There are so many scholarly articles written on the subject, and this is the best you can come up with? You are completely out of touch with the complex psychological factors involved in rape that you are striking out at something you don't understand. Please try to understand it so that you can be an effective weapon against this atrocious crime; where your words and actions can actually have an effect on the safety of potential victims and the mental health of potential rapists so that you're doing more than jousting at windmills.

https://shareok.org/bitstream/handle/11244/9466/Voller_okstate_0664M_2201.pdf?sequence=1

https://fioria.us/advice-for-moms/13-characteristics-of-a-date-rapist-a-list-you-need-to-share/

And once again, the problem is not that there exist people who rape, the problem is that not enough women recognize rapists, and that not enough women have the wherewithal to stay away from them.

The existence and prevalence of rapists is taken as a constant, a fact of nature that cannot be changed or modified in any way or form; only the potential victim can avoid being a victim, but the potential prepetrator cannot ever not victimize them.

This is what actually sickens me: That we treat rape and sexual assault as we treat wild bear attacks, or people eating poisonous mushrooms; as the result of carelessness when interaction with a potentially dangerous element of nature. Something that is up to individual responsibility, not social action or policy.

And I wonder - why is it only rape that we're treating in this way? How would we look as a society, if we treated theft, or fraud, or robbery in the same way as we are treating the crime of rape?

 

[Revoltingest]

I've seen it get used in that way, such as when student-athletes are involved. And it does have connotations to all manners of male behaviors, including misbehaving sexually.

Student.athletes.are.trouble.for.non.sexual.assault.issues.
I've.much.experience.with.university.student.rentals.at.a
couple.large.universities.....They.get.away.with.theft.assault.
gun.play,&.any.number.of.petty.crimes.because.the.school
protects.them,&.has.a.cozy.relationship.with.the.cops.
I.stopped.renting.to.football,baseball,hocky,&.basketball
players.cuz.of.horrible.experiences.with.them.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Student.athletes.are.trouble.for.non.sexual.assault.issues.
I've.much.experience.with.university.student.rentals.at.a
couple.large.universities.....They.get.away.with.theft.assault.
gun.play,&.any.number.of.petty.crimes.because.the.school
protects.them,&.has.a.cozy.relationship.with.the.cops.
I.stopped.renting.to.football,baseball,hocky,&.basketball
players.cuz.of.horrible.experiences.with.them.

I'm not surprised. They get off the hook for a lot because of their celebrity status, and often the money they bring in. Although I suspect that last one is an empty and idol threat because high schools and colleges routinely lose good players. Sure, the next may not sell as many jerseys, but he was done after next season anyways, if not this season.

 

[Stevicus]

Is that why whenever there is talk about sexual misconduct among wealthy men, Social Media (including this forum) is filled with messages bemoaning "false rape accusations" along with putting forth allegiations that women accusing men of sexual misconduct are doing so "for the attention" or monetary gain?

If the majority of men really do want to prevent rape, sexual assault and harassment, then how does that gel with this persistent trope of responses to factual, real allegiations of sexual assault?

One doesn't really have anything to do with the other. There's a legal principle in our system that an accused individual is considered innocent until proven guilty. Belief in such a principle does not entail belief that crime should not be stopped.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm not surprised. They get off the hook for a lot because of their celebrity status, and often the money they bring in. Although I suspect that last one is an empty and idol threat because high schools and colleges routinely lose good players. Sure, the next may not sell as many jerseys, but he was done after next season anyways, if not this season.

Aye,the.term"privilege"does.indeed.apply.to.the.
players.in.the.big.sports...even.to.minorities.

 

[Kooky]

One doesn't really have anything to do with the other. There's a legal principle in our system that an accused individual is considered innocent until proven guilty. Belief in such a principle does not entail belief that crime should not be stopped.

Of course, it is easy to hold the belief that rape, in the abstract, should be thoroughly prosecuted, while at the same time being convinced that the chick trying to start a case against your frat buddy banging her while she was stone cold drunk was just a jilted lover looking for revenge, or that your male friend's ex who called him a 'wife beater' and a 'rapist' and tried to get him jailed was just crazy and probably unnaturally jealous.

The overwhelming majority of sexual assaults do not get to court, and once there, the majority of sexual assault cases do not result in convictions. Given those statistics, should I suppose that you consider it justified to believe that the overwhelming majority of rape allegiations are fabricated for financial gain?

After all, if an alleged rapist's guilt could not be proven beyond a reasonable doubt - something which we know for a fact is extraordinarily hard to do in most rape cases, and in fact is one of the primary cause behind the disproportionally small conviction rates in rape trials - it's fair to assume the woman was just crazy, or looking for attention, or trying to milk him for money, right?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Given those statistics, should I suppose that you consider it justified to believe that the overwhelming majority of rape allegiations are fabricated for financial gain?

 

[Kooky]

So when I told you I was putting you on my ignore list, instead of doing the proper thing and just stop engaging with my posts, you instead took it as an invitation to snipe at me from the sidelines without me noticing.

I suppose I should thank you for revealing what kind of person you are.

 

[Stevicus]

Of course, it is easy to hold the belief that rape, in the abstract, should be thoroughly prosecuted, while at the same time being convinced that the chick trying to start a case against your frat buddy banging her while she was stone cold drunk was just a jilted lover looking for revenge, or that your male friend's ex who called him a 'wife beater' and a 'rapist' and tried to get him jailed was just crazy and probably unnaturally jealous.

The overwhelming majority of sexual assaults do not get to court, and once there, the majority of sexual assault cases do not result in convictions. Given those statistics, should I suppose that you consider it justified to believe that the overwhelming majority of rape allegiations are fabricated for financial gain?

After all, if an alleged rapist's guilt could not be proven beyond a reasonable doubt - something which we know for a fact is extraordinarily hard to do in most rape cases, and in fact is one of the primary cause behind the disproportionally small conviction rates in rape trials - it's fair to assume the woman was just crazy, or looking for attention, or trying to milk him for money, right?

No, I believe that legal accusations and cases be built upon facts and evidence.

 

[Kooky]

No, I believe that legal accusations and cases be built upon facts and evidence.

And evidence beyond the level of he said, she said is extraordinarily hard to come by in most rape cases, so the majority of alleged rape victims couldn't successfully prove their case in court.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

And once again, the problem is not that there exist people who rape, the problem is that not enough women recognize rapists, and that not enough women have the wherewithal to stay away from them.

Oh, for crying out loud, that is not the case at all.

You will twist anything I say to fit your narrative, so further attempts at reasoning with you or discussing this issue objectively with you will go nowhere, so I will recuse myself.

Your approach is counterproductive to actually addressing the issue of rape and is dangerous to women as it teaches women to be willfully ignorant and vulnerable.

 

[Kooky]

Oh, for crying out loud, that is not the case at all.

You will twist anything I say to fit your narrative, so further attempts at reasoning with you or discussing this issue objectively with you will go nowhere, so I will recuse myself.

Your approach is counterproductive to actually addressing the issue of rape and is dangerous to women as it teaches women to be willfully ignorant and vulnerable.

So I guess this means you won't ever adress the questions I posed in Post #104

 

[Stevicus]

And evidence beyond the level of he said, she said is extraordinarily hard to come by in most rape cases, so the majority of alleged rape victims couldn't successfully prove their case in court.

I'm not sure what else we can do, other than change the legal principles of our current system. I suppose we could reverse it and make it so that the accused have to prove their innocence, as they do in Mexico and other countries which follow the Napoleonic Code.

False accusations are most definitely a thing, so it would seem that the one group which should be at the forefront of challenging and condemning false accusation are actual rape victims and their advocates. One could say that anyone who does not believe in prosecuting and punishing false accusers is, in effect, making life that much worse for those with real complaints about real crimes.