Perceptions of Islam

[frg001]

I was trying to figure out the meaning of your signature....???

It's a slightly modified (curse the 100 char rule) Richard Dawkins quote...

"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. "

In the end for thousands of years man has created gods. Most people do not belive in most of these gods. He( and I ) believe in none...

 

[mehrosh]

In the end for thousands of years man has created gods. Most people do not belive in most of these gods. He( and I ) believe in none...

I really like that, and I respect the athiest to great extend, you know why because, they are use their intellect. They are using their reasoning power. Most of the people in the world who believe in a God they are doing blind belief. He is a Christian because his father is a Christian, he is a Hindu because his father is a Hindu. Some Muslims are Muslims because their father is a Muslim. They are doing blind belief. This atheist even though he may belong to a religious background, to a religious family he thinks that how is it possible that the people around me they are worshipping a God which has got human qualities, whom he has created. How can I believe in such a God so he says there is no God.

But there is only one thing, I cannot figure out about an athiest and that is, how do they reason their existence, why are we here, what is the purpose and how did we get here???? don't wan't to get personal, just a thought back there in my mind

 

[frg001]

But there is only one thing, I cannot figure out about an athiest and that is, how do they reason their existence, why are we here, what is the purpose and how did we get here???? don't wan't to get personal, just a thought back there in my mind

You know this is the beauty... I don't really know. Don't tell my atheist friends I said that (kidding). But to me, a divine being is about the last on a very long list of possibilities.
I honestly believe that someday we will find out the truth. Of course I believe in evolution, and natural selection. What came before all of this billions of years ago... I doubt any human can currently conceive in reality.

 

[mehrosh]

You know this is the beauty... I don't really know. Don't tell my atheist friends I said that (kidding). But to me, a divine being is about the last on a very long list of possibilities.

Hmm...nope I will not, you have my promise...lolzzzz

We Muslims believe, there is One God, He is one and Only, He is absolute and Eternal, He has no son, Nor has He fathered any one, and there is No One like Unto Him.

And the Beauty of this belief is that, we have no image of God, we don't call Him God, because you can add an 's' to it, even 'dess' to it, But the word Allah is unique, has no gender, and cannot be plural.

I honestly believe that someday we will find out the truth. Of course I believe in evolution, and natural selection. What came before all of this billions of years ago... I doubt any human can currently conceive in reality.

Yes, Agreed, we will find the truth one day.

You believe in evolution, but then how do you believe did the universe come into existence?

 

[frg001]

You believe in evolution, but then how do you believe did the universe come into existence?

Obviously evolution just covers lifeforms on earth, and any other planets, satelites or maybe even stars (Dragons Egg by Robert Forward is a cracking read about life on a neutron star, but I digress)
At the moment. I guess the Big bang is all we have, but as I said, I believe that as yet no human can conceive the reality of the universe. I do however believe, we will, as evolution takes us forward.

Anyway. It is 00:49 here, and I need to sleep... So I'll bid you good night and don't think *too hard

 

[mehrosh]

Obviously evolution just covers lifeforms on earth, and any other planets, satelites or maybe even stars (Dragons Egg by Robert Forward is a cracking read about life on a neutron star, but I digress)
At the moment. I guess the Big bang is all we have, but as I said, I believe that as yet no human can conceive the reality of the universe. I do however believe, we will, as evolution takes us forward.

Anyway. It is 00:49 here, and I need to sleep... So I'll bid you good night and don't think *too hard

At my side it is 4:00 in the morning, don't frown, I was not feeling sleepy today...

I will not hold you from sleeping...lolzz...you can go to bed, sweet dreams.

And yes, when you come back tomorrow Inshallah (God willingly) do tell me "who told you about Big Bang" I would like to know more about it. I will be thankful if you have the time to do so.....

Thanks a lot for being here...
Regards
Mehrosh

 

[YmirGF]

Yes, agreed, infact we have to, because such posts don't make sense, there are many fountains in this garden, you ask me to prove this and that, facts and opinions, but you don't provide me the chance to do so, everytime we come to something, it is put into another direction.

I disagree, that "such posts don't make sense". They make a great deal of sense, as they clearly show YOUR perceptions of Islam far more better than simple questions could have elucidated. Anyone who closely reads our interactions will understand where you ignore, deflect and get downright silly.

You say I dont provide you with a chance to do prove your points. I was unaware that I was standing beside you holding your hands. Are you not free to type what you wish? Do you not have the mental fortitude to direct a conversation, as you wish?

As usual, you claims are barren and void of meaning. Nice work. :clap

As for hurting my feelings, that generated a splendid bit of laughter. Hurt my feelings? Oh, come now, don't pat yourself too hard on the back. Trust me, it is inconceivable that your tactics could possibly hurt my poor widdle feewings. Thanks for the belly laugh though. At least you have a sense of humor. Perhaps you should gift yourself another rose.

I still await the reply to my question.

Did Muhammed ever learn to read and write?

Sorry, I didn't realize it was a difficult question. Please try to supply documentation to back up your answer.

Respectfully
YmirGF

 

[TashaN]

Did Muhammed ever learn to read and write?

Do you want the simple answer or you want me to explain?

The simple one is NO. He was illitrate during his life till his death.

Please read ..

http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/aboutislam.htm

What they say about Islam, Quran and Mohammed. (famous newspapers and famous scholars around the world from various countries and nations).

More questions?

 

[YmirGF]

Do you want the simple answer or you want me to explain?

The simple one is NO. He was illitrate during his life till his death.

Yes, The_Truth, please explain. Thanks for doing what Mehrosh could not.

 

[TashaN]

Yes, The_Truth, please explain. Thanks for doing what Mehrosh could not.

You are most welcome.

About Mehrosh, it's not the case that he can't give you the direct answer but we muslims don't just talk from our mind about Islam but we must be sure of what we are saying. I believe, he is trying hardly to give you tons of proofs instead of giving the direct simple answer like what i did.

Most of historians whether they were muslims or not muslims believes that Mohammed "peace be upon him" was indeed, an illitrate.

How we gonna know about somthing happened before 1400 years a go?

If i showed you a verse which say that he was illitrate (the word of God), you will simply reject it because you want to make sure first whether he write himself or not, i guess.

Do we have some certificate at that time or somthing similar? Of course not.

So, what we gonna do then to deal with this issue?

OK, if you want to know this, you have to go back 1400 years ago to see what was the common art among arabs at that time. They had nothing excpt thier beautiful language, Arabic.

Most of the people at that time wrote/recited their poems "for instance" and even though they were normal people so the arabic historian didn't spare them and they gave us tons of books which talks about their art in language whether it was poems or other things. Do you think if prophet Mohammed had somthing like that no one will mention it? even his enemies?

Think about it a little bit.

How we gonna know for sure that he didn't write nor read in his entire life?

I'll ask you a question, if you told me that a guy before 1000 years a go for instance didn't ride a horse in his entire life how I would know if you were telling the truth?

I have to ask first whether people at that time saw him riding horses or not, right?

Because he must need a horse to travel or to move from a city to another.

Then, if i didn't find the information which i want so i should look for ANY evidance that prove the guy skills in riding horses, right?

What if i didn't find that evidence? will i believe what the history says or i'll go to you asking you to bring a proof for somthing NEVER HAPPENED, that someone before 1000 years a go didn't do it?

I should bring any evidenace that prove my argument or i just have to accept it because i have no evidance.

OK, another thing ...

If you were standing in front of the law in the court because they THOUGHT you stole somthing for instance, do you have to proof that you didn't steal anything (i didn't do it, i didn't do it bla bla" who would believe you"?) or they should bring any evidance that you did it?

They first have to bring any small evidence that you might do it or you have any bad record in your profile and they will try to find anything you left while you were stealing? is it? also, you have to proof where you were at that time.

If they have no evidance so they must apologize for you and send you home and you might ask them later on to give you some millions for the damage they cause for you

Now, if you have any evidance whether from what the historian says, any documents, any preproof or just anything that prove prophet Mohammed could write and read so bring your evidence or just accept it as the historians believed that he was indeed, an illitrate.

No body saw him reading and no body saw him writing.

A prophet who hold this message as one of the Jewish said to the uncle of prophet Mohammed is not allowed to read nor write and he must not meet his father because this is one of the prophecies of the last messenger of God, Mohammed "peace be upon him".

You would say why he didn't teach himself while he was encouraging others to do it.

The answer is that he is not allowed to do so because Allah knew that some people will claim that he wrote it by himself.

Also, his enemies at that time never claimed that he wrote it by himself nor he stole it from other sources because they knew, he can't read and he can't write. That's why they said, he is crazy, poet or magician (God forbid) because they couldn't explain from where did he brought these words.

Don't forget that he was just reciting it and this is excatly what Jesus "peace be upon him" told us:

"I have yet many things to say unto you, but you cannot bear them now. How be it when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth; for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak; and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me; for he shall recieve of mine and he shall shew it unto you" John 16:12-14

If you can tell me from where did he bring these words (Quran) so i'll listen to you ..

enlighten me ...


Peace ...

 

[YmirGF]

Thank you again the truth. Your answers are wholey satisfactory.

In answer to your question regarding the quote from Jesus. First off, you must understand that I am not a Christian, therefore I am hardly an authority on the words of Christ. It is my suspicion though that Christ was talking about what is commonly referred to as the return of the Messiah. We both know that Muhammed never claimed to be an incarnation of god, nor did he claim to be a Messiah.

You are welcome to think that Christ is referring to Muhammed, but personally I do not think so. That is of course, my opinion. What could I possibly know, for Allah knows best.

 

[TashaN]

Thank you again the truth. Your answers are wholey satisfactory.

In answer to your question regarding the quote from Jesus. First off, you must understand that I am not a Christian, therefore I am hardly an authority on the words of Christ. It is my suspicion though that Christ was talking about what is commonly referred to as the return of the Messiah. We both know that Muhammed never claimed to be an incarnation of god, nor did he claim to be a Messiah.

You are welcome to think that Christ is referring to Muhammed, but personally I do not think so. That is of course, my opinion. What could I possibly know, for Allah knows best.

indeed dear YmirGF, Allah knows best ...

and you are most welcome anytime ...

 

[Buttercup]

Please forgive me if this question has been asked already.....I did not have time this evening to read though the entire thread. It is quite long now!

In Afghanistan a Muslim man converted to Christianity. It is against the law in that country to do so. He is being prosecuted in court and could face the death penalty if convicted.

My question is this.....Why would a man who converted from Islam to another religion be put to death? Is there no choice in believing what you want? Does this set a good standard for Islam?

 

[Judgement Day]

I agree that the choice of religion is one's right. There is no compulsion in religion as what Quran says. Unfortunately most muslim countries do not base their laws base on Islam. If Islamic laws were to be applied, this is not to happen.

 

[TashaN]

Please forgive me if this question has been asked already.....I did not have time this evening to read though the entire thread. It is quite long now!

In Afghanistan a Muslim man converted to Christianity. It is against the law in that country to do so. He is being prosecuted in court and could face the death penalty if convicted.

My question is this.....Why would a man who converted from Islam to another religion be put to death? Is there no choice in believing what you want? Does this set a good standard for Islam?

There was a separate thread for this issue called "apostasy from Islam".

I hope you will find your answer there, if not, we can continue to discuss about it in that thread.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28162


Peace ...

 

[Judgement Day]

There was a separate thread for this issue called "apostasy from Islam".

I hope you will find your answer there, if not, we can continue to discuss about it in that thread.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28162


Peace ...

What he said.

 

[mehrosh]

I disagree, that "such posts don't make sense". They make a great deal of sense, as they clearly show YOUR perceptions of Islam far more better than simple questions could have elucidated. Anyone who closely reads our interactions will understand where you ignore, deflect and get downright silly.

You say I dont provide you with a chance to do prove your points. I was unaware that I was standing beside you holding your hands. Are you not free to type what you wish? Do you not have the mental fortitude to direct a conversation, as you wish?

As usual, you claims are barren and void of meaning. Nice work.

As for hurting my feelings, that generated a splendid bit of laughter. Hurt my feelings? Oh, come now, don't pat yourself too hard on the back. Trust me, it is inconceivable that your tactics could possibly hurt my poor widdle feewings. Thanks for the belly laugh though. At least you have a sense of humor. Perhaps you should gift yourself another rose.

I still await the reply to my question.

Did Muhammed ever learn to read and write?

Thats nice, we atleast came to a question, you always take me all wrong, I want our discussion to be on a track, and every time I try to talk about a topic, we are diverted to a different one. Till now we didn't do justice to even one of the question raised by you. I know you have not caught my hands, but I can't type anything that comes to me mind. That will not make sense will it? You didn't answer my question, in the last post,

if you discover that you like what you are hearing and you think that it is something good, are you then prepared to consider worshipping your Lord, Alone without any partners?"

but you stress on me to answer this question of yours. No problem I will, as far as I know, he never wrote anything himself, I know it doesn't proves whether he learned or he didn't, but when the Quran says he is illterate, then he is. Because whatever the Quran says is true.

Allah Knows Best. If there is a mistake it is from me, and what I said if that is right that it is from Allah

Sorry, I didn't realize it was a difficult question. Please try to supply documentation to back up your answer.

It wasnt a difficult question, not as difficult as the one you had put up for me, just answer me in a yes or no. And yes, the debate will continue on Straighten Direct Questions from me and you. Fine...do you agree...???

Thanks and Regards
Mehrosh

 

[mehrosh]

You are welcome to think that Christ is referring to Muhammed, but personally I do not think so. That is of course, my opinion. What could I possibly know, for Allah knows best.

Nice attitude, very straight forward, Christ is refering to Muhammed, I had posted a verse down there.......and not only Christ many other major religions talk about Muhammed, and his coming. We can talk about it, once we have finished talking about the truth of the Quran.

 

[mehrosh]

Please forgive me if this question has been asked already.....I did not have time this evening to read though the entire thread. It is quite long now!

In Afghanistan a Muslim man converted to Christianity. It is against the law in that country to do so. He is being prosecuted in court and could face the death penalty if convicted.

My question is this.....Why would a man who converted from Islam to another religion be put to death? Is there no choice in believing what you want? Does this set a good standard for Islam?

Brother or sis,,, It is very kind of you to ask about Islam, it gives me pleasure answering you. And I have answered you in the related thread, but just to fulfill the needs of thread as well. You cannot say that this is happening in Saudia, so is this Islam, or this is happening in Afghan so is this Islam. Why? because till now I didn't find a single verse of the Quran telling us that follow Saudia or follow Afghan, rather the Quran tells us, follow Allah and follow the Messenger......

It is very clearly stated in the Quran "there is no compulsion in religion"

the Quran also tells the believers "Say (to the non believers) TO YOU IS YOUR RELIGION, AND TO ME IS MINE"

 

[Buttercup]

the Quran also tells the believers "Say (to the non believers) TO YOU IS YOUR RELIGION, AND TO ME IS MINE"

Will you kindly provide some quotations from the Quran on what is to be done to a person who refuses Islam and converts to another religion?