Perceptions of Islam

[tkdrocks]

Before I enter too deep into this discussion, I need some sort of idea of the sects of Muslims represented in this thread. Do you consider yourselves Sunni, Shiite or something else?

If you consider the Sharia law as the gold standard for laws governing people, can you give an example of a government that is using the Sharia law to the best extent?

Are the Taliban a good example of how Muslims should live? I am just trying to get a barometer of the feelings here.

 

[tkdrocks]

This has been alluded to already in this thread, however, I will attempt to provide some simplistic clarity.

The real problem that I have with Islam (specifically) as with Christianity is that it is a 'revealed' religion. Muhhamed had an angel appear to him and revealed these 'truths' to him. I cannot accept 3rd hand revelation as fact. Merely stating that writings are true because they say they are true is not enough to convince me of legitimacy.

I guess that is the core of it. Really, everything else is just a subset of that issue.

Now, I cannot PROVE that Muhammed did not see the Angel any more than I can PROVE that my daughter did not see Santa Claus.

All that I can provide is opinion based upon observation. It is my observation that Revealed Religions are ripe with opportunity and practice of fooling people in order to gain power and money.

 

[greatcalgarian]

Fair enough, I must admit there are many more ridiculous quotes around.

I have no interest in putting down, criticising or ridiculing Islam. Unfortunately it seems to be doing a better job at that, than anyone else who wanted to, could.

How about:
a little knowledge of science makes man a believer in God, but an in-depth study of science makes him an atheist

 

[Booko]

The real problem that I have with Islam (specifically) as with Christianity is that it is a 'revealed' religion. Muhhamed had an angel appear to him and revealed these 'truths' to him. I cannot accept 3rd hand revelation as fact. Merely stating that writings are true because they say they are true is not enough to convince me of legitimacy.

I'm a member of a revealed religion too, but just stating some writings are true because they say they are wouldn't convince me either. Well, the Muslims will have to speak for themselves on this point...I should not take it off topic.

Now, I cannot PROVE that Muhammed did not see the Angel any more than I can PROVE that my daughter did not see Santa Claus.

All that I can provide is opinion based upon observation. It is my observation that Revealed Religions are ripe with opportunity and practice of fooling people in order to gain power and money.

Anything that involves people emotions on such a core level is ripe for those opportunities. Were it not so, pornography would not be such a financial unpinning of the Internet.

 

[Booko]

How about:
a little knowledge of science makes man a believer in God, but an in-depth study of science makes him an atheist

How about, "you haven't got a clue"?

My in-depth study of science taught me that science does not deal with the metaphysical. My so-so study of philophy taught me that "false dichotomy" is a logical fallacy.

I just love you guys who have a beef with whatever small segment of religion, and then overgeneralize it. It's like an alien that lands in the Sahara, and proclaims the entire Earth a desert...then leaves.

sheesh

 

[Squirt]

I bet its gonna be one of these top ten misconceptions:

1. Muslims are violent, terrorists and/or extremists.
2. Islam oppresses women.
3. Muslims worship a different God.
4. Islam was spread by the sword and intolerant of other faiths.
5. All Muslims are Arabs
6. The Nation of Islam is a Muslim group.
7. All Muslim men marry four wives.
8. Muslims are a barbaric, backward people.
9. Muhammad was the founder of Islam and Muslims worship him.
10. Muslims don't believe in Jesus or any other prophets.

Okay, my "misconception" is loosely tied to your item #4. Belonging to a much-maligned religion myself (I'm a Latter-day Saint), I am vehemently opposed and to religious intolerance and bigotry. Furthermore, I make it a point to always get my facts straight before forming any judgment. I personally know a handful of Muslims and they are fine people, so from that standpoint my "misconception" falls flat on its face.

My questions to you would be, does Islam teach that all "infidels" are to be killed or otherwise destroyed? And whom do you consider to be the "infidels"?

Thank you in advance for your responses and please forgive me for not reading all 25 pages of prior replies before asking my questions.

 

[greatcalgarian]

How about, "you haven't got a clue"?

My in-depth study of science taught me that science does not deal with the metaphysical. My so-so study of philophy taught me that "false dichotomy" is a logical fallacy.

I just love you guys who have a beef with whatever small segment of religion, and then overgeneralize it. It's like an alien that lands in the Sahara, and proclaims the entire Earth a desert...then leaves.

sheesh

I must admit I do not have a clue. I am in the field of science for over 40 years, as well as in the field of religion for over 40 years, though much less in the area of philosophy.

 

[greatcalgarian]

I spent one hour going over the entire thread, and I am very impressed by mehrosh very refine and gentle and knowledgeable and sensitive posts answering all the questions. :162: Supportive role was also played well by The Truth, judgementDay, and other Islam faith members.
If you guys can infiltrate into the Western media and spread this "peace" message, I believe the world will be a better and more peaceful place.
Frubals to you.:clap

I pray hard that one day your message will get through to thinker_of_elves. I sensed he is the only one not convinced.

 

[YmirGF]

I spent one hour going over the entire thread, and I am very impressed by mehrosh very refine and gentle and knowledgeable and sensitive posts answering all the questions. :162: Supportive role was also played well by The Truth, judgementDay, and other Islam faith members.
If you guys can infiltrate into the Western media and spread this "peace" message, I believe the world will be a better and more peaceful place.
Frubals to you.:clap

I pray hard that one day your message will get through to thinker_of_elves. I sensed he is the only one not convinced.

Your glowing support, GreatCalgarian, speaks volumes.

How utterly and completely delicious.

:biglaugh:

M'Lord, I rest my case.

 

[Judgement Day]

Okay, my "misconception" is loosely tied to your item #4. Belonging to a much-maligned religion myself (I'm a Latter-day Saint), I am vehemently opposed and to religious intolerance and bigotry. Furthermore, I make it a point to always get my facts straight before forming any judgment. I personally know a handful of Muslims and they are fine people, so from that standpoint my "misconception" falls flat on its face.

My questions to you would be, does Islam teach that all "infidels" are to be killed or otherwise destroyed? And whom do you consider to be the "infidels"?

Thank you in advance for your responses and please forgive me for not reading all 25 pages of prior replies before asking my questions.

I am pleased to hear that, and thank you for your question. First I need to explain that most Muslims dont use the term infidels to describe non-Muslims, but they are categorized as following:

1. Kafir. Literally, “a denier”. A person who denies the existence of God and His Prophets.
2. Ahl al-Kitab. Literally, “the people of the book or scripture.” This term is used to refer to Jews and Christians.
3. Mushrik. Literally, “an associator.” A person who believes in more than one god, one who associates other being or beings in God’s Divinity. The pre-Islamic Arabs are referred to as Mushriks in the Qur’an.

And regarding your second question, does Islam teach to kill them? The simple answer is no. In Islam, killing one soul is the same as killing the whole humanity, and saving one soul is like saving the whole humanity (Quran 5:32).

Here is another verse:

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things."(Quran 2:256)

There is even a whole Chapter(one surah) that teaches us specifically how to deal with them:

Say: O disbelievers!
I worship not that which ye worship;
Nor worship ye that which I worship.
And I shall not worship that which ye worship.
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.
(Quran 109:1-6)

I hope that answers your question.

Thanks.

 

[DakotaGypsy]

And, Judgment Day, will I be stoned for being an Atheist if Muslims take over the world?

 

[Judgement Day]

And, Judgment Day, will I be stoned for being an Atheist if Muslims take over the world?

Islam? No. Muslims? Not for me to answer, after all, this thread is about Islam(the religion), not Muslims(the people).

 

[TashaN]

My questions to you would be, does Islam teach that all "infidels" are to be killed or otherwise destroyed? And whom do you consider to be the "infidels"

This thread talks about Islam & sword:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20228

You are most welcome to ask questions as much as you want ...

 

[TashaN]

I will do my best to stay on topic. First, I will say that it is nearly impossible to separate Muslims from Islam. Without Muslims, there is no Islam.

Islam means peace and submiting to the will of God and islam was there before Mohammed and before all those Muslims you see now. It will be there whether we "Muslims" believe in it or not because it belongs to God, Al-Salam (one of his names which means the peace, if i'm not mistaken in translating it).

 

[TashaN]

Now, I cannot PROVE that Muhammed did not see the Angel any more than I can PROVE that my daughter did not see Santa Claus.

OK, i like your thinking, you can't believe in somthing just because the history say so. That's fair enough.

Now, tell me, what kind of proof you would like to discuss? scientific one?

Somthing like, things that God told us about in the Quran and people just found out the truth about it before few years even though it was in Quran since 1400 years ago?

Just choose the way you like and "God willing" i'll try to answer your questions if i could, otherwise, others with more knowledge than me might help too as well.

Peace ...

 

[TashaN]

I spent one hour going over the entire thread, and I am very impressed by mehrosh very refine and gentle and knowledgeable and sensitive posts answering all the questions. :162: Supportive role was also played well by The Truth, judgementDay, and other Islam faith members.
If you guys can infiltrate into the Western media and spread this "peace" message, I believe the world will be a better and more peaceful place.
Frubals to you.:clap

I pray hard that one day your message will get through to thinker_of_elves. I sensed he is the only one not convinced.

Thanks for your kind words, i really aperciate it. I hope to hear anything, regarding to Islam, in case you have any question.

 

[TashaN]

And, Judgment Day, will I be stoned for being an Atheist if Muslims take over the world?

No, Islam teach us to be peaceful with all human beings whatever religion they belong to or whatever they believe in.

You can read about the Muslims in Spain and how much they were tolerant with others long time a go when it was under Muslims role 100% and they lived for ages side by side. They even helped each other to discover many things.

Don't think too much about Pakistan and Afganistan , they are just few millions having their own problems but the other muslims are more than one billion.

I hope one you will notice them ...

 

[tkdrocks]

OK, i like your thinking, you can't believe in somthing just because the history say so. That's fair enough.

Now, tell me, what kind of proof you would like to discuss? scientific one?

Somthing like, things that God told us about in the Quran and people just found out the truth about it before few years even though it was in Quran since 1400 years ago?

Just choose the way you like and "God willing" i'll try to answer your questions if i could, otherwise, others with more knowledge than me might help too as well.

Peace ...

Thanks for the reply. I would say that the question of proof is not really the problem. It is impossible to prove something that occured in the past with anything other than anecdotal evidence. With revealed religion a person (or persons) get some special vision from a diety, angel or other supernatural occurence. I cannot develop faith without being a party to such an 'experience'.

Actually, using this type of interaction with humanity seems rather inefficient. Passing on information to a few followers and then expecting them not to mess it up seems ill-advised.

It would make sense to me that God, Allah or whomever, would use more profound methods to declare his/her utmost important message. In my opinion, something so important should not have any room for misunderstanding. But, I am a simple guy with simple needs.

 

[TashaN]

It would make sense to me that God, Allah or whomever, would use more profound methods to declare his/her utmost important message. In my opinion, something so important should not have any room for misunderstanding. But, I am a simple guy with simple needs.

Such as?

 

[DakotaGypsy]

As long as women are persecuted in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia and other repressive Muslim nations, I cannot be silent.

I will not be silent.