Perceptions of Israel Before and After the Start of the War

[Yerda]

I wouldn't mind talking about people's perceptions of apartheid and genocide. I feel really uncomfortable throwing words like that around.

Is it incorrect to think that the legal definitions could be met but the circumstances are such that the labelling the situation in this way is inaccurate or misconstrues the situation?

 

[Revoltingest]

You guess it was stolen. Got it.

What's the point of discussing documented
history with one who denies everything not
supported by Zionist propaganda, eh.

 

[dybmh]

I wouldn't mind talking about people's perceptions of apartheid and genocide. I feel really uncomfortable throwing words like that around.

Is it incorrect to think that the legal definitions could be met but the circumstances are such that the labelling the situation in this way is inaccurate or misconstrues the situation?

I think it's important to acknowledge that it feels like apartheid and genocide especially to the empathetic observer from a distance.

And.

I think it's important to acknowledge that the outside observer and the Palestinians need, not want, they need a way to understand the situation. They NEED someone to blame other than their ancestors. Otherwise, it's like self inflicted psychological torture.

 

[dybmh]

What's the point of discussing documented
history with one who denies everything not
supported by Zionist propaganda, eh.

You're confusing debate with denial. And you're running away from the argument because deep down you know you're going to lose, but you cannot admit to yourself that the loss will be because I am right and you are wrong.

The difference between us, in attitude, is that I am willing to have the discussion and I am willing to put my cards on the table. You are not. Either due to laziness, or perhaps it's the implications of being wrong that you are avoiding.

This is what I think. I think this hatred you have, ( and it is hate, it's nothing to be ashamed of. Everyone hates ) makes you feel alive. And if we discuss the details, your hate will diminish, it will be moderated, it will be reduced, and that hate is like a drug. You love it. It makes you feel alive.

Also, the feeling of being wise makes you feel alive. These things energize you. Psychologically. There is nothing wrong with it. It's a good thing. I want you to feel good. I want you to be happy, healthy and full of life. I love that. L'Chayim! But. Not at my expense. Wisdom is expressed in platitudes lacking detail. When I bring details, you are not able to sound wise, and present yourself as a sort of every-man philosopher.

This is the trend. And it's 100% consistent and reliable. 100%. Any time I introduce detail it moderates your position. It doesn't disprove anything, but it throws metaphorical water on your passionate hate for what Israel is doing, and what you imagine Israel has been doing, and ultimately what you imagine Jews have been doing. That PASSION, is what makes you feel alive. If I throw water on it, you don't like that. Naturally.

It's the same for Jay. Jay is passionate about PURPOSE. That's what makes him feel alive. I'm generalizing. But if I introduce the opposing point of view, it reminds him, that his purpose is flawed, unjust, and in many ways cruel. That pours water on the fire of his passion. And that doesn't feel good.

Both of you are avoiding details, because criticizing feels so-so good. The passion makes you both feel alive. And I take that from both of you when I bring detail.

That is why I asked DS about the psychological reward. It's vital to have a fair discussion about this heated topic to acknowledge our passions. What is motivating us? What is rewarding to us? Why? Because if we are not careful,

Our perceptions are biased, shaped, in order to encourage the rewards we are seeking.

 

[dybmh]

Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. ( cue more gifs )

Revoltingest: This thread is not your own personal gif gallery. But if you want to spoil this thread and push people away from responding. Be my guest.

 

[dybmh]

I used to be or less neutral about it. I thought "Yeah, Israel is just trying to survive in a very unstable part of the world".

But Israel has gone far beyond “going after Hamas” or "defending themselves". Just imagine if Russia did even half of what Israel is doing.

Welcome to the discussion.

I think you're making a false comparison based on a very limited point of view. But, it's easy to do, because the internet presents a large quantity of biased one-sided anti-israel story-telling. The quantity makes it difficult to conceive of anything other than: "Israel must be wrong. What else could it be?"

 

[dybmh]

Transcript of the above quoted video:

Spoiler: transcript

he waves a small white flag at them but
the White Flag doesn't prevent soldiers
from opening fire on
him an Israeli bulldozer arrives on the
scene and here we see the body of the
first man on the
ground in a final indignity the giant
bulldozer shovels the two bodies and
buries them in sand and
litter
the Israeli soldiers attempt to conceal
the
executions the whereabouts of a group of
Palestinian Witnesses is
unknown Hammer says in any ceasefire
agreement the right of Palestinians to
return to their homes safely without
being shot at by Israeli troops must be
included
make sure to subscribe to our channel to
get the latest news from Al
jazer

Good Morning!

Are you able to answer any of the questions I posed about this video?

Who is this individual? When did this occur? Where? What is the end of the story? Was anyone taking their home? Who owned the home?

Why were the bulldozers coming? Was the home sold to a developer?

From Al-Jazeerah: reporting on the situation. McBell, do you know anything about what was happening in East Jerusalem at that time? It's an honest question. If not I'll tell you:

Palestinians are selling their land to Israeli developers, then they refuse to leave.

Selling Jerusalem: Middlemen sell Jerusalemite homes to settlers

Al Jazeera investigates claims behind the selling of Palestinian homes in occupied East Jerusalem to Israeli settlers.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[dybmh]

And for those who are interested in detail:

Sheikh Jarrah controversy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What did Israel do about the situation?

Israel listened to both sides of the dispute and made a ruling based on the facts which were available.

For the critics I ask you: what would you like to have happened instead?

 

[dybmh]

on the basis of their membership

I see.

Were you to have tried something as simply as Googling "racism meaning" you could have easily discovered...

That you, Jay, are wrong about what you wrote?

There is plenty of reason to consider the Israeli government racist even if Gaza is excluded from the conversation.

Nope. The wiki-page you sited says, based on membership. The Israeli government is motivated by behavior. And I can bring proof.

Profiling people based on membership produced too many false positives and ignores the threats posed by outliers. We, security professionals, do not profile group membership. That is stupid. It is dangerous. You don't know that because you do not know all that you think you know. But you love to blame and you love to get others to blame.

Jay, Roger Waters started out with a noble ambition. Then he became a racist pig. I see a lot of important lessons in that for you in particular.

 

[Godobeyer]

Also, I know arguing semantics does not go far, but I'm also pointing out that "racism" does not apply because both Jew and Muslim are Semites. If someone flings around such terms and especially use a word designed to trigger memories, nazi, I see they are interested in insults not in dialog.

Arabs and Jews are semitic.

Fact, actual problem is about racism.

Palestinians are resistance Israel because it's racist regime,the crimes of Israel, are just evidences and results .

Should Palestinians accept this fate regime? or died or leave?

Why not West force Israel to change their regime to be normal country all citizens are equal in rights regardless thier race or religion, as they did with many countries?

 

[Revoltingest]

Talking to you is....

...something I find annoying.
I observe that fanatics offer no real discussion.

 

[dybmh]

...something I find annoying.

Naturally. For the reasons I detailed. In brief: I pour water on your passion.

I observe that fanatics offer no real discussion.

Are you calling me a fanatic? Regardless. You're wrong about me "offering no real discussion". I have a lot to offer. The evidence is in this thread. It is real, because:

You can see it. If you open your eyes, your heart, and your mind.

( cue the gif factory )

 

[Revoltingest]

Naturally.

No argument with that.
No need to read the rest.

 

[dybmh]

No need to read the rest.

There. You just proved it. You are the one who is refusing to discuss. Not me.

I think that's called preaching. So you're name calling ( I'm a fanatic ) , and you're preaching ( you refuse to read and discuss )?

This doesn't look good for you,

 

[Revoltingest]

There.

Again, no argument with that much.

Sometimes it appears that your only goal,
other than defending genocide of Palestinians,
is to boost both your & my post counts.

 

[McBell]

Good Morning!

Good morning.

Are you able to answer any of the questions I posed about this video?

I do not know.

Who is this individual? When did this occur? Where? What is the end of the story? Was anyone taking their home? Who owned the home?

Why were the bulldozers coming? Was the home sold to a developer?

Again, I do not know.

From Al-Jazeerah: reporting on the situation. McBell, do you know anything about what was happening in East Jerusalem at that time? It's an honest question. If not I'll tell you:

Palestinians are selling their land to Israeli developers, then they refuse to leave.

Selling Jerusalem: Middlemen sell Jerusalemite homes to settlers

Al Jazeera investigates claims behind the selling of Palestinian homes in occupied East Jerusalem to Israeli settlers.

www.aljazeera.com

And?

All I offered was a requested written version.

I decided long ago that I have interest in discussing the topic of Israel with fanatics.
On any side of the issue.

 

[dybmh]

I do not know.

I left you a list of questions.

Again, I do not know.

You know nothing about the video. Ok. I hope you don't draw any conclusions from it.

And?

Most people assume that Israel is at fault. But they ignore the fact that:

Palestinians sell their land, take the money, and refuse to leave.

 

[dybmh]

fanatics

Reported. Name calling.

 

[McBell]

Reported. Name calling.

what name did I call you?
What post?

 

[dybmh]

what name did I call you?
What post?

Fanatic. I quoted it. If you were not calling me a fanatic, then you can prove it by discussing the issue.