Please Explain: "Gay Christian"

[Ingledsva]

To which, find me studies that compare feminine men who are heterosexual, to that of gay men. Porfavor lol

What is your point here?

There have always been feminine HETEROSEXUAL men; even trends among the rich to be such. Read your history.


However, they are still heterosexual, preferring women.


There is a big difference between "feminine" men (think Captain Jack,) bi men, and homosexual men.



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[Ingledsva]

I guess in SOME cases they COULD learn when any other human does the majority of its learning...

When they were a kid.

Check out this study:

"Nevertheless, it is disturbing to find that although under 4 percent of boys are molested by men, a recent major study found that the rate of childhood molestation by men among homosexual or bisexual men was nearly ten times that (35 percent). It is also notable that 75 percent of homosexual men report their first homosexual experience prior to the age of sixteen, as compared to 22 percent of heterosexual men reporting their first heterosexual experience.

"What’s intriguing is that 68 percent of the homosexual men did not identify as homosexual until after the abuse."

And sadly, the only gay guy I know has a father in prison right now for the same exact thing even though he has told me that he USED to like women until he smelled a vagina. Then, he just decided to move on to men....

I'm not saying all gay men are molested or anything like that but based on research, 6-7 out of 10 of them are (or are victims of statutory rape). The other 3 could fall into one of the following categories:

Not 100% gay, mentally ill, doing it for attention, perfectly normal and can't help it, etc.

Of course, I'm sure there are other studies out there that will throw this one under the bus (even though I've yet to see one that provides REAL evidence that someone was born gay) and that's fine.

I'm just presenting my own side to the argument and I don't think gay people are monsters or anything...

I just think that in most cases....they've been victims.

And how many little girls and women have been molested and raped?


1 in 3 girls and 1 in 5 boys is sexually assaulted before the age of 18.


61% of all sexual assaults occur before the victim reaches the age of 18;


78 women are raped each hour in America


Sexual Assault Info - The Women's Center, Inc.


SO - if we believe your model - why don't we have a predominantly gay world - with just a few heterosexuals pumping out babies in a dwindling world population???


The answer: - because your model, isn't a correct one!



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[Thruve]

What is your point here?

There have always been feminine HETEROSEXUAL men; even trends among the rich to be such. Read your history.


However, they are still heterosexual, preferring women.


There is a big difference between "feminine" men (think Captain Jack,) bi men, and homosexual men.



*

lol not in reference to behavior, just sexual rpeference. The studies you posted in the other thread were studies on the brains of Gay men, but im rather interested if the studies were the same on men who were feminine BUT heterosexual. Rather curious..

 

[averageJOE]

lol not in reference to behavior, just sexual rpeference. The studies you posted in the other thread were studies on the brains of Gay men, but im rather interested if the studies were the same on men who were feminine BUT heterosexual. Rather curious..

I'm not aware of any feminine men who would subject themselves to any kind of study to determine sexual preferences.

 

[ScuzManiac]

Not buying it. I know several gay people who do not come from dysfunctional relationships, and several straight people who do come from such relationships.

So do I....

I'm just presenting this study as an argument and speaking from experience.

And how many little girls and women have been molested and raped?


1 in 3 girls and 1 in 5 boys is sexually assaulted before the age of 18.


61% of all sexual assaults occur before the victim reaches the age of 18;


78 women are raped each hour in America


Sexual Assault Info - The Women's Center, Inc.


SO - if we believe your model - why don't we have a predominantly gay world - with just a few heterosexuals pumping out babies in a dwindling world population???


The answer: - because your model, isn't a correct one!



*

First of all, it's not MY model. I didn't conduct this study.

And I clearly stated that I was just presenting a new argument.

Second of all, the reasoning for WHY we don't have a predominantly gay world is this:

You left out ONE vital statistic in your little spew of numbers.

Most women are raped by MEN...

So obviously that wouldn't have a strong influence on their sexuality...

Or nearly as much as a man that was raped or molested by another man.

And there are more men molested by men than woman....

There are NOT more women being molested by woman than men...

Second of all, if only 1 in 5 men are molested and 1 in 3 women...

Why on Earth would you even think that would add up to a predominantly gay world?

Even if it made ALL of those victims gay, we still wouldn't live in a predominantly gay world.

Math anyone?

**Numbers don't lie. You can't argue with statistics...

**Much like I'm not arguing with your numbers. I'm just arguing with your lack of basic math skills.

 

[Sonofason]

I'll agree with that to an extent.

I'm sure it IS possible to pass on gay traits through birth...

But one of the only gay guys I have ever known in my life personally...

Told me he was attracted to girls until he smelled a vagina.

He was gay ever since...

True story.

Certainly, it is possible. But at this point in time, we do not know as a matter of fact, that homosexuality is genetic. At this point in time the cause of homosexuality could be attributed to many things.

Just because homosexuality has not been proven to be genetic, does not mean it is not genetic, however that ship is slowly sinking.

Your story is pretty funny. Seems there's always a sacrifice that has to be made. Everything has a cost.

 

[Sonofason]

Sorry, accidently crossed you with Thruve, with whom I am also debating.


However, everything else is correct.


I went back and checked to make sure.


You have no facts to stand on.




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Facts are not always required to know the truth. However,
It is a fact that Jesus lived.
It is a fact that men have written words that they claim have come from God.
It is a fact that God exists, this I know from personal experience.
It is a fact that I believe that the God I know inspired the writing of the Bible.
It is a fact that the Bible exists.
It is a fact that many people experience God as I do.
It is a fact that the Holy Spirit guides believers in truth.
It is a fact that two men cannot procreate together.
It is a fact that sodomy is disgusting.


Honestly, I can go on and on.

I have plenty of evidence to support my belief that homosexuality is a sin.

Okay, let me give you one more so you don't think I'm a total jerk.

It is a fact that homosexuals are human beings who must be treated with dignity and respect.

But that doesn't mean we have to let them dictate to the rest of the world what is good and proper. I won't, and I don't.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It is a fact that sodomy is disgusting.

No, that's an opinion. A rather immature one.

 

[Sonofason]

As I said real studies point to before birth.


You "preference" people have nothing.

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No studies point to anything solid at this point in time. Speculations point to before birth, and speculations point to after birth.

Everyone is biased.

 

[sojourner]

Certainly, it is possible. But at this point in time, we do not know as a matter of fact, that homosexuality is genetic. At this point in time the cause of homosexuality could be attributed to many things.

Just because homosexuality has not been proven to be genetic, does not mean it is not genetic, however that ship is slowly sinking.

Your story is pretty funny. Seems there's always a sacrifice that has to be made. Everything has a cost.

So, if we don't know what, exactly, is factual about the cause of homosexuality, how can you assert with any truth that it's a sin???

 

[sojourner]

Facts are not always required to know the truth. However,
It is a fact that Jesus lived.
It is a fact that men have written words that they claim have come from God.
It is a fact that God exists, this I know from personal experience.
It is a fact that I believe that the God I know inspired the writing of the Bible.
It is a fact that the Bible exists.
It is a fact that many people experience God as I do.
It is a fact that the Holy Spirit guides believers in truth.
It is a fact that two men cannot procreate together.
It is a fact that sodomy is disgusting.


Honestly, I can go on and on.

I have plenty of evidence to support my belief that homosexuality is a sin.

Okay, let me give you one more so you don't think I'm a total jerk.

It is a fact that homosexuals are human beings who must be treated with dignity and respect.

But that doesn't mean we have to let them dictate to the rest of the world what is good and proper. I won't, and I don't.

No. It's not a "fact" that Jesus lived.
No. It's not a "fact" that God exists. No matter what you "think" you've experienced.
No. It's not a "fact" that the Holy Spirit "Guides believers in truth."
No. It's not a "fact" that sodomy is "disgusting."

These things are beliefs, opinions, and feelings. But they aren't "facts."
What, exactly is the evidence you have that homosexuality is a sin? So far, the "facts" you've presented are mostly not facts. And the ones that are, have no bearing on homosexuality.

How can you assert that "homosexuals are human beings who must be treated with dignity and respect," when you don't treat them with dignity and respect?

 

[Sonofason]

Then how does this go hand in hand with Luke 8:17

For nothing is hidden, that will not be revealed; nor anything secret, that will not be known and come to light.

or 1 Timoty 5:24,25

Some men’s sins are evident, preceding them to judgment, and some also follow later.
In the same way also there are good works that are obvious, and those that are otherwise can’t be hidden.

?

For what reason are they not open for public display?
If you don't show them now, we will get to see them later.
The only difference between now and later is that you will have to go with your trousers down when God reveals them later, since you could have confessed them now and already be forgiven by us.
Confessing your sins will also give you the opportunity to see how people will deal with your confessions. It's a powerful chance to find out as soon as possible whether people are good or evil.

Great verse. We all get our just rewards.
No verse in the Bible says that you will ever know my sins, but I wouldn't say it's an impossibility.

No one is under any obligation to confess their sins to anyone but God.
I really don't care how people would deal with a confession of my sins.
I don't care if people are good or evil.
I owe no human being on this earth an apology for anything I've ever done.

 

[Thruve]

No. It's not a "fact" that Jesus lived.
No. It's not a "fact" that God exists. No matter what you "think" you've experienced.
No. It's not a "fact" that the Holy Spirit "Guides believers in truth."
No. It's not a "fact" that sodomy is "disgusting."

These things are beliefs, opinions, and feelings. But they aren't "facts."
What, exactly is the evidence you have that homosexuality is a sin? So far, the "facts" you've presented are mostly not facts. And the ones that are, have no bearing on homosexuality.

How can you assert that "homosexuals are human beings who must be treated with dignity and respect," when you don't treat them with dignity and respect?

Tis a fact we don't procreate >.<

Which, if that be ones definition of homosexuality being a sin , We can gladly donate specialty syrup to the specialty banks.

 

[Sonofason]

Wrong. We are forgiven sinners, who have already had the privilege of God's grace. "Deserve" isn't in the equation. "Received" is in the equation.

My dear sir, if deserved is not in the equation, then I am correct to say that there is nothing we can do to deserve God's grace. In my original words, "No one is deserved of God's grace."

Thus, according to you, I am correct, whether you realize it or not.

If you are actually a Christian, as you seem to be claiming you are. This is not a point of debate. Or do you just like hearing yourself argue, and don't really care about the content of the debate. What ever I say, you have to oppose it. Very very non christian of you to behave this way with a fellow Christian.

 

[Sonofason]

"I just read the bible." Well, how convenient. An argument from Special Pleading. Fallacy Alert!

Obviously you don't read it. Someone has to.

 

[Sonofason]

Just exactly what are "the wishes of the bible?" I was unaware that an inanimate object could possess desire. Perhaps you could explain what the bible "wishes" and how you know this information? :areyoucra

If you don't know, it will be a waste of time trying to explain it to you.

 

[Sonofason]

Now we see the "Appeal to Popularity" fallacy... and "Appeal to Authority."

Yikes.

skipping this post for lack of intellectual content.

 

[Sonofason]

So... when do all these "asexual" people "learn" how to be heterosexual? And how can some people in the same cultural context and similar familial backgrounds, "learn" how to be homosexual? And, pray tell, identify this "teacher of homosexuality" so that we may avoid it!!!

Parenthetically, I find it odd that you're so sure about the "psychological dysfunction" thing, when the community of psychological experts agree that homosexuality is not a "dysfunction."

Well, it's you, and all other advocates for Satan.

Sorry, the community of psychological experts are also advocates for Satan. They just say what you want to hear.

 

[Sonofason]

Hmmm... James 5:16 and Proverbs 28:13 suggest otherwise, my bible-banging friend.

He's talking to Christians. If I were to confess my sins, it wouldn't be to you.

 

[sojourner]

My dear sir, if deserved is not in the equation, then I am correct to say that there is nothing we can do to deserve God's grace. In my original words, "No one is deserved of God's grace."

Thus, according to you, I am correct, whether you realize it or not.

If you are actually a Christian, as you seem to be claiming you are. This is not a point of debate. Or do you just like hearing yourself argue, and don't really care about the content of the debate. What ever I say, you have to oppose it. Very very non christian of you to behave this way with a fellow Christian.

1) "Deserves" is not in the equation. That means that whether we "deserve" it or not is not cogent to the topic, and need not be discussed in the same breath as grace. Grace is given. Period. "Deserved" or "undeserved" Does. Not. Matter. "There is nothing we can do to deserve grace" is such a non-statement.
Thus, you are incorrect, whether you realize it or not.

2) It is a point of debate, when you use it as part of a justification for discrimination based upon "biblical" tenet. I oppose it for two reasons:
a) This is a debate forum. Opposing what people say is what we do in a debate.
b) Everything you've said that I've disagreed with ends up either being discriminatory or leading to discrimination, which is patently WRONG. Your theological reasoning is baseless and abysmal, and is used as an excuse to spread judgment without regard for the dignity of others. Many of your arguments are nothing more than fallacy. Is that any way for you to behave with fellow human beings?