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Please Explain: "Gay Christian"

McNap

Member
Yes there is. You just simply stop having sex.

Just?
Simply?

Ok, I can't deny there is, but you've got to admit it's a bad sign when you have to make such a decision.
Just can't imagine me wanting to go there, so I'm sure it would be manipulation as with prison principles.
Neither I've heard of girls who did not feel punished for their boyfriend being locked up.
But yes, you stop having seks...
...just not simply when a church leader says so
 

McNap

Member
Paul was condemning pagan sex rites that were popular in mother goddess religions that were all over the Greco-Roman world and that Christians butted heads with, not homosexual sex in general.

That's exactly what I think.
Paul said it in a context of "return to your natural seks with girls" which just doesn't go for homosexuals.

The only passage Paul claiming it's okay to be celibate is 1 Timoty 5:9 where he's talking about widows older than 60 years. In verse 3 he clearly recommends to support such widows as much you can. In verse 16 he even asks faithful children of widows to relieve them, and that the assembly isn't burdened, so I guess we are busy enough with the childless widows older than 60 years.
I just don't believe Paul was asking for more people troubling with celibacy.
However, when you aren't sexually active, as Paul was, you might not take celibacy as a problem.
Then again you can't blame anyone for falling in love.
 

McNap

Member
Homosexuality isn't something that needs to be "healed". There's nothing in the Bible about committed gay relationships. They were only discussed in the context of condemning pagan sex rites, pederasty, etc. that don't have anything to do with modern gay relationships between adults.

I agree.

This reminds me of an interview I once did with my dutch gay brothers.
I asked: "Would you pray God for healing?"
It was remarkably to see that those who yet never felt in love answered positive, because they already felt the curse of being oppressed/bullied coming on them.
All those with a relationship prayed God for letting them be with their boyfriend forever. Even in heaven.
I believe that God will answer their prayers.
 

Triumphant_Loser

Libertarian Egalitarian
The issue isn't the factual veracity of the bible, but how it inspires us to find meaning within the cosmos and our life experiences.

But what is Christianity without a factual book to base its beliefs off of. If the Bible is not divinely inspired, then why follow it at all?
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
But what is Christianity without a factual book to base its beliefs off of. If the Bible is not divinely inspired, then why follow it at all?
Christianity's beliefs aren't "based off the bible." They are based out of the apostles' teaching, and the Tradition that is established within communities of followers. The bible is part of that Tradition. There was no bible, as we know it, for the first 450 years of the church.

I never said that the texts weren't divinely-inspired. I believe they are. But "divine inspiration" =/= "factual integrity."
 

Triumphant_Loser

Libertarian Egalitarian
I never said that the texts weren't divinely-inspired. I believe they are. But "divine inspiration" =/= "factual integrity."
So then if it is both "divinely inspired" and not "factually integral"...then that would mean that God is lying or purposely deceiving his followers, correct?
 

Izdaari

Emergent Anglo-Catholic
Certainly there are Christians who are gay. It isn't an oxymoron... unless you think only inerrantist and literalist Christians are "real" Christians. I don't believe that.
 

McNap

Member
During some interview I once did in a homosexual circle I found out that they speak in terms of 'coming out' or 'coming out the closet'.
When I took notion of their 'coming out the closet' and the way how they were so open-minded with another it started to impress me, because I wasn't like that. And I know we ought to be weak in order to be strong.

One day I happened to read the story - Jesus the good shepherd - again with my gay brothers in the back of my mind. As you know it's from John chapter 10 and I've been reading it for many times, but this time God enlightened me anew concerning this story. Because I had several questions which I never thought of before.
Like, the sheep pen. What does it mean?
Well, Jesus revealed that he is the door of the pen after informing us that he who enters in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
But then he goes: "Those who come in by me will be saved; they will come in and go out and find pasture" (verse 9).
Which raised another question, because why would we continue going in and out of the pen?
The answer me was given that: 'going in' means confessing your sins.
And: 'going out' means being forgiven by the shepherd that went in through the door, and by the other sheep.
Finding pasture may be as the refreshing we will find from going in and out of the pen.
Well and I think the pen to be 'spiritual world' or simply 'the spiritual'.
Since Jesus also says he has other sheep from another pen he may be referring to the gentiles, but he said he must bring them together too, when they hear his voice. Then there will be one flock of sheep and one shepherd (verse 16).

Just know that I could not have shared you this if I wouldn't have this glory within my gay brothers.
We are supposed to confess and those who don't, are not shepherds. Rather they are thiefs and robbers, since they didn't enter the pen by the door (while it is the very appropriate way a soul should enter), but climb in some other way (verse 1).
Remind that everyone can just enter the pen (our government is an open world), but I now explained you how to recognize whether the one in the pen is a shepherd or not, because the robber will not confess, nor forgive.

How will anyone ever make me believe those gays are not my spiritual brothers now that God has been using them to enlighten me?
Not that I consider their homosexual practises as sins, but they really are an example to christians in how we should interact with each other.
Though homosexuality practised by heterosexuals IS sin.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Im a gay christian. I ignore what any pastor says. I ignore what my father said. I ignore what the world says. Do that and you'll begin to see the truth xP


Man has been engaging sexually with other men since our conception. Only today has society turned it into a 'Minority Group' for a dam near electoral vote. It's turned from an act to a lifestyle. Its RIDICULOUS. I'ts sad. It is what it is, however.

Now, in reference to my perception of Christianity through my eyes as a 'gay' male, I tell myself that I have a choice to either conform to what the world says and indulge in this role as a 'gay' male, or I can realize the truth that it is dam near normal for men to want to sexually engage with other men, to overcome it, and live a simple 'heterosexual lifestyle'. I on the other hand made a choice to not fight a battle that 'has already been won', that if my path in life, the life of a present day gay male, is what I choose, then God simply has to deal with it =) But... I know God is loving, and has arms as wide as any, and therefore I chose to believe that He would/will use me to reach other gay males out there that A) need my help, or B) can help me. And 'God' has done just that =) Ive met gay males, especially during my 'whorish' phase that redirected me to a better path, and hes also thrown other gay males/lovers/companions in my life that have benefited from me to which I returned the favor. God has become an idol, to a companion, to an enemy, to m best friend. Our relationship (if he exists -.-) is quite complicated xP Especially when I look up with desire in my heart 0-0 because theres been things he made me suffer for' for years, only to find that one day it was given to me like nothing.. then to find soon after it was stripped away from me. I dont know if anyone here knows what its like to suffer over something youv've lacked FOR SO LONG, only to one day find yourself with it, as you indulge in it, sin, indulge some more, then suddenly find it stripped from you like it was nothing. You want to talk about being mentally trapped? You want to talk about mentally experiencing hell? That is hell =) Been there and back, but through it all, as a gay male, I NEVER stopped looking up. God has served his purpose in my life whether he really is real or not. His existence in my mind has gotten me through what I found many people commit suicide over.

My BEST advice to other gay males out there battling God or their religion/loved ones over the fact that your identifier is being gay, IGNORE words. Ignore them. Ignore your Pastor talking out of his butt, Ignore your family who are unwise depending on their views on homosexuality, and most importantly.. Ignore the world.


Yes, in fact the percentage of homosexuals born each years has remained fairly steady for as long as such has been studied.


Since there is no die off, this tells us there has to be a good biological reason for there being gay people.


So if you are Christian - I guess you could say God creates a certain percentage of Gay people every year - for a purpose - so get over it. :D



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Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Yes, in fact the percentage of homosexuals born each years has remained fairly steady for as long as such has been studied.


Since there is no die off, this tells us there has to be a good biological reason for there being gay people.


So if you are Christian - I guess you could say God creates a certain percentage of Gay people every year - for a purpose - so get over it. :D

Precisely! He also creates bisexuals, transgender and transsexual people and asexuals, just as He created all the hair, skin and eye colors, body shapes, etc. God created us to be diverse. It's people who have the problem with it.
 

Thruve

Sheppard for the Die Hard
Yes, in fact the percentage of homosexuals born each years has remained fairly steady for as long as such has been studied.


Since there is no die off, this tells us there has to be a good biological reason for there being gay people.


So if you are Christian - I guess you could say God creates a certain percentage of Gay people every year - for a purpose - so get over it. :D



*
The "gay" population is definently increasing each year, and it's in part to our culture, it's definition of "gay", and from the exposure of homosexuality period.

Most all porn sites offer "gay" porn now, so any male who just has an edge to see the act or is curious can and shall witness it through porn which is 90% of the time, deceiving. It also doesn't help that the media and our culture has a definitive answer for those who even have an "edge" or curiosity about simply an homosexual act.

I've met quite a few bisexual men in my life, and though the men I've met were young, roughly my age at 22, whenever I asked them why they prefer both men and women, I always got the same responses. Either they prefer to sexually engage with a male, but mentally prefer a relationship with a female, that they like sexually pleasing in general be it a male or female, or they are still figuring out what they like but often fear they always may like both and therefore face the a battle between them both for eternity, especially if they consider getting married which would suggest they are stuck with that gender.

Ones Sexual role has a huge play in the life of a gay male, actually with lesbian women too. Typically, it's not common to find a masculine gay male who prefers a 'top' role, to which the masculinity is often sought after. Usually gay males with authoritative jobs tend to be more submissive too, ironic really, and though there's always exceptions, it's not common. Whether the submissive role is a learned behavior, or an acquired one, men typically associate that role to that of a female which often leads a male on the path of the modern day homosexual.

I once was best friends with a lesbian, not a bi curious one, which I find most 'lesbians' are, or atleast who claim to be lesbian, and she was more of a dominating figure who preferred the top role. She was the first female I had ever developed feelings for, and given the opportunity, I would of been willing to have sex with her. After analyizing it I figured it was because of a few different factors, one of then obviously being more dominant physically. Not just sexually either, but the walk, talk, etc. Second, we clicked xP and though she was beautiful, I wasn't sexually attracted to her, but rather who she was as a human being. The whole thing for me was a reality check on preference and how sexual roles, society, etc play apart into ones sexual identifier be it homo or heterosexual. It leads me to believe that we're not Gay at birth, it's a combination of many things.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Precisely! He also creates bisexuals, transgender and transsexual people and asexuals, just as He created all the hair, skin and eye colors, body shapes, etc. God created us to be diverse. It's people who have the problem with it.

I doubt that it is the people who have a problem with it bro. Most people dont have a problem with it. I know some do but people are very broadminded now.

It is the bible that has a problem with homosexuality.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Ingledsva said:
Yes, in fact the percentage of homosexuals born each years has remained fairly steady for as long as such has been studied.


Since there is no die off, this tells us there has to be a good biological reason for there being gay people.


So if you are Christian - I guess you could say God creates a certain percentage of Gay people every year - for a purpose - so get over it.
The "gay" population is definently increasing each year, and it's in part to our culture, it's definition of "gay", and from the exposure of homosexuality period.


ING - Actually it has held a steady percentage of the population up to current.

We appear to have more because people are no longer hiding in the closet.

- Though - the next one could show a rise - as data shows a rise in homosexual births when populations are under stress, - and the world is very OBVIOUSLY under stress right now. This is possibly to lower future births, - so we have enough resources, food, etc., until we get back to normal.




Most all porn sites offer "gay" porn now, so any male who just has an edge to see the act or is curious can and shall witness it through porn which is 90% of the time, deceiving. It also doesn't help that the media and our culture has a definitive answer for those who even have an "edge" or curiosity about simply an homosexual act.

I've met quite a few bisexual men in my life, and though the men I've met were young, roughly my age at 22, whenever I asked them why they prefer both men and women, I always got the same responses. Either they prefer to sexually engage with a male, but mentally prefer a relationship with a female, that they like sexually pleasing in general be it a male or female, or they are still figuring out what they like but often fear they always may like both and therefore face the a battle between them both for eternity, especially if they consider getting married which would suggest they are stuck with that gender.


ING - I've posted info on this subject in the past. Several big studies showed that most women are actually bi, and so are a lot of men. Our society trains us to hate such, so we follow the so-called "norm!"

These studies used only male or female pheromones, releasing them into rooms with either a male or female, and registered the reaction in the "sex" areas of the brain. True heterosexual's brains only reacted sexually to the opposite sex. True homosexual's brains only reacted to same sex pheromones. BUT - the majority of the brains reacted to both meaning bi, - and follow-up studies using normal materials such as images, porn, etc., backed up the results.


Ones Sexual role has a huge play in the life of a gay male, actually with lesbian women too. Typically, it's not common to find a masculine gay male who prefers a 'top' role, to which the masculinity is often sought after. Usually gay males with authoritative jobs tend to be more submissive too, ironic really, and though there's always exceptions, it's not common. Whether the submissive role is a learned behavior, or an acquired one, men typically associate that role to that of a female which often leads a male on the path of the modern day homosexual.


ING - Actually it has been shown that even heterosexual men, at the top of the food chain, in sado-masochistic play, will often choose the submissive role. It is interesting.


I once was best friends with a lesbian, not a bi curious one, which I find most 'lesbians' are, or atleast who claim to be lesbian, and she was more of a dominating figure who preferred the top role. She was the first female I had ever developed feelings for, and given the opportunity, I would of been willing to have sex with her. After analyizing it I figured it was because of a few different factors, one of then obviously being more dominant physically. Not just sexually either, but the walk, talk, etc. Second, we clicked xP and though she was beautiful, I wasn't sexually attracted to her, but rather who she was as a human being. The whole thing for me was a reality check on preference and how sexual roles, society, etc play apart into ones sexual identifier be it homo or heterosexual. It leads me to believe that we're not Gay at birth, it's a combination of many things.


Most legitimate studies show people are Gay/Bi at birth. There is a study that shows differences in the brains of homosexuals, when compared to heterosexuals. SO - a very long term study is underway. They are taking a snapshot of infant's brains - then following up with them after puberty - as to gay/bi/hetero status, - and performing studies on the brains when they die.

As I said up above - studies show increased gay births at times of great stress. This shows that what leads to "gay" - is before birth.


*
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
I doubt that it is the people who have a problem with it bro. Most people dont have a problem with it. I know some do but people are very broadminded now.

It is the bible that has a problem with homosexuality.


Actually the Bible has a problem with Sacred Sex for other Gods.


For instance -


Deu 23:17 There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.


Is actually -


There shall be no Qadeshah of the daughters of Israel, nor Qadesh of the sons of Israel.


A Qadeshah is a Female Sacred Prostitute. Qadesh - a MALE Sacred Prostitute.


The Qadesh took the roll of God or Goddess in the CREATION STORY. God and Goddess coming together SEXUALLY to create ALL. They played either the God, or Goddess role, with the people that came to the Temple.


Has nothing to do with homosexuals.


*
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Actually the Bible has a problem with Sacred Sex for other Gods.


For instance -


Deu 23:17 There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.


Is actually -


There shall be no Qadeshah of the daughters of Israel, nor Qadesh of the sons of Israel.


A Qadeshah is a Female Sacred Prostitute. Qadesh - a MALE Sacred Prostitute.


The Qadesh took the roll of God or Goddess in the CREATION STORY. God and Goddess coming together SEXUALLY to create ALL. They played either the God, or Goddess role, with the people that came to the Temple.


Has nothing to do with homosexuals.


*

I have a tinge of a feeling that you should read some of the previous posts and the opening post. This thread doesnt have anything to do with the verse you quoted. I am not gonna post them again. You should check them out.

Any way the verse you quoted is right and your immediate interpretation is correct. I dont know about the creation story and Qadesh taking Gods role. Qadesh is from the root word Qa-Da-Sha, or QDS and it on the face it means Sacred. But Homosexuality is mentioned in other places.

Try http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3848049-post502.html

Peace.
 

samosasauce

Active Member
Yes I see.
And it's true what you say.

First of all girls naturally look prettier than boys. (It's harder to condemn a pretty person)

Another psychological explanation was given to me by my dutch gay brothers. They say boys naturally want more seks than girls.
For instance: when a straight couple live together the boy will be drawing his girl to do seks more often, while the girl actually does the opposite by putting her boy on a brake. They both have to sacrifice something: the boy gets a little less than he desires and the girl gives a little more to keep him satisfied. They are affecting eachother.
But when it comes to a gay couple those two boys won't have this brake influence, so they are going to give eachother a lot. When male straight people find out about it, they might get jealous.
A lesbian couple on the other hand will have few seks which may be seen as more glorious in comparison with other couples.

When you're not lesbian I advice you not to talk about your seks life except with your partner or else people WILL devalue.



Well... I want more sexual things than my boyfriend, a lot more often
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
I have a tinge of a feeling that you should read some of the previous posts and the opening post. This thread doesnt have anything to do with the verse you quoted. I am not gonna post them again. You should check them out.

Any way the verse you quoted is right and your immediate interpretation is correct. I dont know about the creation story and Qadesh taking Gods role. Qadesh is from the root word Qa-Da-Sha, or QDS and it on the face it means Sacred. But Homosexuality is mentioned in other places.

Try http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3848049-post502.html

Peace.


LOL! Of course my quote and translation are correct! AND - I have read this whole thread - and posted throughout it - and I mentioned those Qadesh back in post # 19.


You don't know about the Qadesh taking God and Goddess roles? What do you think the Holy Prostitutes were doing in the Temple?


And of course Qadesh means Sacred - and Sacred Prostitute. Look up Qadesh # 6945 and Qadeshah # 6948 in your Strong's.


The Hebrew people kept turning back to their old Gods and Goddesses. They set them up in their Hebrew Temples. Including the Sacred Sex. They said they were better off with their old Gods. They were murdered OVER-and-OVER by the One-God followers.


1Sa 2:22 Now Eli was very old, and heard all that his sons did unto all Israel; and how they had sex with the women that waited at the entrance of the tabernacle of the congregation.



EDIT - Why did you refer me to your INCORRECT post about Arsenokoitai?


There is not a single know use of Arsenokoitai as meaning a regular homosexual. NONE!


It is found used with rape of both men and women, etc.


It appears to mean the sexual misuse of men and women against their will.


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firedragon

Veteran Member
LOL! Of course my quote and translation are correct! AND - I have read this whole thread - and posted throughout it - and I mentioned those Qadesh back in post # 19.

You don't know about the Qadesh taking God and Goddess roles? What do you think the Holy Prostitutes were doing in the Temple?

And of course Qadesh means Sacred - and Sacred Prostitute. Look up Qadesh # 6945 and Qadeshah # 6948 in your Strong's.

Strongs! Alright:)

Sis, I said Qa-da-sha, the root word meant sacred. And I agree Qadesh means spiritual prostitute. But I do not agree with your original statement that in creation they plaid roles of God. What do you mean in creation? Genesis or do you have another view?

The Hebrew people kept turning back to their old Gods and Goddesses. They set them up in their Hebrew Temples. Including the Sacred Sex. They said they were better off with their old Gods. They were murdered OVER-and-OVER by the One-God followers.

People always went to back to their pagan beliefs. There is an Greek Goddess called Qhadesha, even the Jews worshiped her.

1Sa 2:22 Now Eli was very old, and heard all that his sons did unto all Israel; and how they had sex with the women that waited at the entrance of the tabernacle of the congregation.

EDIT - Why did you refer me to your INCORRECT post about Arsenokoitai?


There is not a single know use of Arsenokoitai as meaning a regular homosexual. NONE!
It is found used with rape of both men and women, etc.
*

Where? Why would this word refer to rape of men and women when Arsen means Man?
 
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