Please Explain: "Gay Christian"

[Ingledsva]

I simply cant remember how many times this word has been explained. And I can see that you reading off some explanation form somewhere.

Aresenokoitai means Males + Bed, covet or lie with which means liers with men.

Does not mean rape or pedophilia.

And again - NO IT DOES NOT!


If we take the two words separately as "male" and "beds" those two words DO not in any way become homosexuality.


It is only used in 1 Co 6:9 and I Ti 6:9-10, in the Bible, and neither gives the meaning.


1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor malakoi, nor Aresenokoitai,

1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


1 Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for Aresenokoitai, for menstealers (slavers,) for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;


As I said above - neither gives the meaning - and no ancient source uses Aresenokoitai as homosexual.


It is nothing but later Christian speculation.


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[firedragon]

And again - NO IT DOES NOT!


If we take the two words separately as "male" and "beds" those two words DO not in any way become homosexuality.


It is only used in 1 Co 6:9 and I Ti 6:9-10, in the Bible, and neither gives the meaning.


1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor malakoi, nor Aresenokoitai,

1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


1 Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for Aresenokoitai, for menstealers (slavers,) for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;


As I said above - neither gives the meaning - and no ancient source uses Aresenokoitai as homosexual.


It is nothing but later Christian speculation.


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To me it seems like you are just reading off someone elses thoughts. But thats alright. Its your wish.

But tell me something. Later speculation? What era do you think? And who made the first speculation as such?

 

[Ingledsva]

To me it seems like you are just reading off someone elses thoughts. But thats alright. Its your wish.

But tell me something. Later speculation? What era do you think? And who made the first speculation as such?

You need to stop saying that when you don't agree with what someone has said.


I am obviously NOT pulling that info out of thin air.


THE BIBLE - does not give the meaning - that is a FACT.


There are NO know ancient uses of the word as homosexual - FACT.


What problem do you have with these FACTS?


Since the Bible does not tell us it is homosexuality, and no ancient source uses the word as homosexuality - it is common sense to assume it probably isn't homosexuality.



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[Thruve]

You need to stop saying that when you don't agree with what someone has said.


I am obviously NOT pulling that info out of thin air.


THE BIBLE - does not give the meaning - that is a FACT.


There are NO know ancient uses of the word as homosexual - FACT.


What problem do you have with these FACTS?


Since the Bible does not tell us it is homosexuality, and no ancient source uses the word as homosexuality - it is common sense to assume it probably isn't homosexuality.



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Sahp. Go focus on another thread.

 

[Ingledsva]

Sahp. Go focus on another thread.

The rest of us are having a debate.


I don't know what your problem is - but this crap is getting old.


Grow up!




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[allright]

Josephus "Against Apion" Book 2 Section 25

"But what are our laws about marriage? The law owns no mixture of sexes but that which nature hath appointed, of a man and his wife and that is to used only for the procreation of children.

But it abhors the mixture of a male with a male; and if any do that death is the punishment"

 

[Thruve]

The rest of us are having a debate.


I don't know what your problem is - but this crap is getting old.


Grow up!




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You just sound like a complete idiot lol, even after multiple others have debated your argument with valid points.

And based off Multiple sources the word is suggested to mean homosexuality, as apparently there was no meaning of homosexuality until sometime in the 19th century. However the same sources suggest they could possibly mean other things such as masturbation, or as stated previously, sexual offenders. Unless you go ask Paul himself, you sound so stupid xP

 

[Ingledsva]

Josephus "Against Apion" Book 2 Section 25

"But what are our laws about marriage? The law owns no mixture of sexes but that which nature hath appointed, of a man and his wife and that is to used only for the procreation of children.

But it abhors the mixture of a male with a male; and if any do that death is the punishment"

Which is very obviously later.


Also, Josephus' minor works have alterations, by even later people, and some are wholly written by other people such as those attributed to the church father Hippolytus.


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[Ingledsva]

You just sound like a complete idiot lol, even after multiple others have debated your argument with valid points.

And based off Multiple sources the word is suggested to mean homosexuality, as apparently there was no meaning of homosexuality until sometime in the 19th century. However the same sources suggest they could possibly mean other things such as masturbation, or as stated previously, sexual offenders. Unless you go ask Paul himself, you sound so stupid xP

LOL! I'm an idiot?


There is no ancient use of it as Homosexuality.


Like I said - grow up and stop this kind of crap.



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[Thruve]

LOL! I'm an idiot?


There is no ancient use of it as Homosexuality.


Like I said - grow up and stop this kind of crap.



*

There is no PROOF according to sources that it IS or ISN'T refering to homosexuality. *Sucker Punch*

 

[Ingledsva]

There is no PROOF according to sources that it IS or ISN'T refering to homosexuality. *Sucker Punch*

LOL!


I guess since there is no use of it as Baboon, We can go around saying it means baboon? Or how about hypochondriac? Or stupid? Big toes?


Yeah that works and sounds intelligent - yep!


EDIT - I think this disserves even more. - We HAVE ancient texts using the word - GOT THAT? NONE of them use it as Homosexuality!!!!!


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[firedragon]

You need to stop saying that when you don't agree with what someone has said.


I am obviously NOT pulling that info out of thin air.


THE BIBLE - does not give the meaning - that is a FACT.


There are NO know ancient uses of the word as homosexual - FACT.


What problem do you have with these FACTS?


Since the Bible does not tell us it is homosexuality, and no ancient source uses the word as homosexuality - it is common sense to assume it probably isn't homosexuality.



*

Alright. I shall stop saying that.

But I am curious to know that you ask me to refer strongs lexicon, but why do you not when it comes to this particular verse only.

Am also curious to know how this can mean rape.

 

[Mycroft]

I am gay, I am atheist, but I grew up in a "devout Christian home".

I understand that behavior is a choice; so I certainly understand that a celibate gay can be a Christian.

What I do not understand is the idea that a gay who is engaging in same sex relationships could, or would, identify themselves as Christian. It is a paradox to me.

We are well aware of the scriptures used to condemn homosexuality. The Old Testament, of course, condemned it. In the New Testament, Paul the Apostle called it "unnatural", made references towards homosexuality in the destruction of Sodom, and made it quite clear that "blah blah blah blah would not inherit the kingdom of Heaven", with homosexuality being on that list of blah blah blahs.

So: Gay Christians, specifically (it feels odd to type that; I feel like I'm typing an oxy moron), with the tenets of Christianity apparently so condemning of homosexuality, why do you find yourself drawn to it and how to you reconcile the apparent Christian doctrines that condemns us for what we are?

I think a real god, a true god, would probably have better things to worry about than who you slept with and when.

But given that the evidence so far points to an epigenetic cause for homosexuality, I don't think god could condemn you for a malfunction in your biology/his creation.

 

[Mycroft]

You just sound like a complete idiot lol, even after multiple others have debated your argument with valid points.

And based off Multiple sources the word is suggested to mean homosexuality, as apparently there was no meaning of homosexuality until sometime in the 19th century. However the same sources suggest they could possibly mean other things such as masturbation, or as stated previously, sexual offenders. Unless you go ask Paul himself, you sound so stupid xP

In ancient greek sex between two men (on one hand) was a profound act of love. On the other, there was pedastry, in which a man was to educate, protect, love, and provide a role model for his eromenos, whose reward for him lay in his beauty, youth, and promise. An elaborate social code governed the mechanics of Greek pederasty. It was the duty of the adult man to court the boy who struck his fancy, and it was viewed as socially appropriate for the younger man to withhold for a while before capitulating to his mentor's desires. It was normal for these boys to be betwee 13 and 15 to be courted by men 13+ just as it was with women.

The idea of homosexuality as a bad thing only came with christianity/catholicism.

 

[allright]

Which is very obviously later.


Also, Josephus' minor works have alterations, by even later people, and some are wholly written by other people such as those attributed to the church father Hippolytus.


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Your claims are just drivel

Show any respected historians who claim this passage was an alteration

Any sex outside marriage is sin whether heterosexual or homosexual.

Those who practice them only hope is the God of the Bible isnt the real God

otherwise their headed for eternity in hell unless they repent and accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour

 

[allright]

In ancient greek sex between two men (on one hand) was a profound act of love. On the other, there was pedastry, in which a man was to educate, protect, love, and provide a role model for his eromenos, whose reward for him lay in his beauty, youth, and promise. An elaborate social code governed the mechanics of Greek pederasty. It was the duty of the adult man to court the boy who struck his fancy, and it was viewed as socially appropriate for the younger man to withhold for a while before capitulating to his mentor's desires. It was normal for these boys to be betwee 13 and 15 to be courted by men 13+ just as it was with women.

The idea of homosexuality as a bad thing only came with christianity/catholicism.[/

Leviticus If a man commits a sex act with another man it is an abomination

Yes the Greeks were without God and without hope in the world

There's a reason when asked Jesus said only a few were going to be saved

 

[Mycroft]

Yes the Greeks were total perverts without God and without hope in the world

There's a reason when asked Jesus said only a few were going to be saved

And yet are responsible for things such as :
philosophy
history
public policy and political economy
republicanism
democracy
town meetings
alphabets and literacy

Not bad for a bunch of soulless, sinful perverts.

Maybe you should choose your words with more care. Some of those words might even be greek in origin.

 

[Thruve]

In ancient greek sex between two men (on one hand) was a profound act of love. On the other, there was pedastry, in which a man was to educate, protect, love, and provide a role model for his eromenos, whose reward for him lay in his beauty, youth, and promise. An elaborate social code governed the mechanics of Greek pederasty. It was the duty of the adult man to court the boy who struck his fancy, and it was viewed as socially appropriate for the younger man to withhold for a while before capitulating to his mentor's desires. It was normal for these boys to be betwee 13 and 15 to be courted by men 13+ just as it was with women.

The idea of homosexuality as a bad thing only came with christianity/catholicism.

This was one of the reasons China had their closed door policy for centuries wasn't it? I learned it was customary for ones master, be it swordsmanship, blacksmithing, martial arts, etc, to have a relationship with his apprentice which included sexual relations. Christianity directly sought to change that, along with many other things, that was customary in China at the time.

 

[allright]

And yet are responsible for things such as :
philosophy
history
public policy and political economy
republicanism
democracy
town meetings
alphabets and literacy

Not bad for a bunch of soulless, sinful perverts.

Maybe you should choose your words with more care. Some of those words might even be greek in origin.

Many people are very successful in this life while living as an enemy of God

If the God of the Bible isn't the real God their home free.

If he is the real God their headed for eternity in hell if they dont repent and
Jesus accept as their Lord

Its each person's free choice

 

[Mycroft]

Many people are very successful in this life while living as an enemy of God

If the God of the Bible isn't the real God their home free.

If he is the real God their headed for eternity in hell if they dont repent and
Jesus accept as their Lord

Its each person's free choice

So you're quite happy to use the benefits of those Enemies of god?