Please Explain: "Gay Christian"

[allright]

So you're quite happy to use the benefits of those Enemies of god?

What benefits are you referring to?

 

[Mycroft]

What benefits are you referring to?

You don't think democracy is a benefit? or history? Or the ability to read and write?

I mean you're writing and reading right now. So I'm guessing it must be. So your ability to read and write was originally developed and advanced by perverted enemies of god. You're okay with that?

 

[allright]

You don't think democracy is a benefit? or history? Or the ability to read and write?

I mean you're writing and reading right now. So I'm guessing it must be. So your ability to read and write was originally developed and advanced by perverted enemies of god. You're okay with that?

Their temporary benefits that mean nothing in terms of eternity. What does all this have to do with the topic

 

[columbus]

Many people are very successful in this life while living as an enemy of God

If the God of the Bible isn't the real God their home free.

If he is the real God their headed for eternity in hell if they dont repent and
Jesus accept as their Lord

Its each person's free choice

It is not a choice I am free to make. You're simply, but profoundly, wrong.

When I was little I believed in Jesus. Everybody I knew did. But I learned how to think and question for myself. That's what the solid teachers in my excellent private Christian schools taught me. I came to realize that the theology and legends did not make sense. I assumed that when I got hold of a Bible I would get solid information from Jesus. But it was the opposite. Jesus didn't say any of that, I learned.

All that was years before I realized that I am gay, and the Bible advocates my execution. Beating people to death with rocks was the standard method. Didn't do a thing to convince me that the Bible is true, lemme tell ya.

I am not able to believe that the God of the Bible is any more than a fictional character. It is not a free choice.

Tom

 

[Ingledsva]

Alright. I shall stop saying that.

But I am curious to know that you ask me to refer strongs lexicon, but why do you not when it comes to this particular verse only.

Am also curious to know how this can mean rape.

I already told you (several posts back) why I don't recommend Strong's in this case - they are only half right. People get the wrong impression.


As to how we know it can mean rape - we have surviving uses of it as such.


Such as the Ganymede rape.


From my post # 178 -


The ancient sources show it to be "male sexual assault," against BOTH men and women.


"...Some even do it with their own mothers, and others with foster sisters or goddaughters. In fact, many men even commit the sin of arsenokoitia with their wives.” - John the Faster, Penitential, about AD 575.


It is found in The myth of Zeus and Ganymede, where Ganymede is raped.


The word seems to mean forced sex - rape, pedophilia, pederasty, sexual slavery, sexual misuse of servants and those of lower status, also the Sacred Prostitutes as they were given to, or sold to, the Temple as children, as well as the IDOLATRY aspect.


*

 

[Ingledsva]

It is not a choice I am free to make. You're simply, but profoundly, wrong.

When I was little I believed in Jesus. Everybody I knew did. But I learned how to think and question for myself. That's what the solid teachers in my excellent private Christian schools taught me. I came to realize that the theology and legends did not make sense. I assumed that when I got hold of a Bible I would get solid information from Jesus. But it was the opposite. Jesus didn't say any of that, I learned.

All that was years before I realized that I am gay, and the Bible advocates my execution. Beating people to death with rocks was the standard method. Didn't do a thing to convince me that the Bible is true, lemme tell ya.

I am not able to believe that the God of the Bible is any more than a fictional character. It is not a free choice.

Tom

Yep! Gay people are Gay! LOL!


All of us should be able to have sex with, and marry, any other adult that we love.


These kill, or abuse gays, ideas, that the religions of Abraham push, are just more nails in the coffin of their religion. They let me know the religions and their God are false.



*

 

[Thruve]

Yep! Gay people are Gay! LOL!


All of us should be able to have sex with, and marry, any other adult that we love.


These kill, or abuse gays, ideas, that the religions of Abraham push, are just more nails in the coffin of their religion. They let me know the religions and their God are false.



*

You realize Jesus hung out with prostitutes right lol
No sin is worth than another sin, any religious folk who say otherwise are naive.

 

[firedragon]

You realize Jesus hung out with prostitutes right lol
No sin is worth than another sin, any religious folk who say otherwise are naive.

That story never happened. It was a fabrication.

 

[Ingledsva]

Which is very obviously later.


Also, Josephus' minor works have alterations, by even later people, and some are wholly written by other people such as those attributed to the church father Hippolytus.

Your claims are just drivel

Show any respected historians who claim this passage was an alteration

Any sex outside marriage is sin whether heterosexual or homosexual.

Those who practice them only hope is the God of the Bible isnt the real God

otherwise their headed for eternity in hell unless they repent and accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour

The Bible does NOT say homosexuals are headed for Hell, - and there is no Hell of fire with eternal torture.


We have had much discussion about error and altering of the works of Josephus, - such as the fake Jesus insert, and the archaeologically proved error in his Masada info, And we know others changed his works, and that later works of others, were attributed to him, such as from Hippolytus.

David Dunbar, "The Problem of Hippolytus of Rome: A study in Historical-Critical Reconstruction," Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society 25/1 (March 1982): 63-74.

"It is now known that the "Discourse on Hades" was incorrectly attributed to Josephus by the 9th-century Greek theologian Photius. Photius was only speculating about its authorship, but the attribution stuck for a thousand years. Finally it was discovered that this discourse is in fact an excerpt from a work by Hippolytus of Rome (d. 236 CE), "Against the Greeks and Plato on the Universe."

Hippolytus of Rome: The Extant Works and Fragments: Dogmatical and Historical (Roberts-Donaldson translation)


The works of Josephus are interesting - but in question everywhere.



*

 

[Ingledsva]

You realize Jesus hung out with prostitutes right lol
No sin is worth than another sin, any religious folk who say otherwise are naive.

Of course I know these stories.


And Jesus said NOTHING about homosexuality.



*

 

[firedragon]

I already told you (several posts back) why I don't recommend Strong's in this case - they are only half right. People get the wrong impression.


As to how we know it can mean rape - we have surviving uses of it as such.


Such as the Ganymede rape.


From my post # 178 -


The ancient sources show it to be "male sexual assault," against BOTH men and women.


"...Some even do it with their own mothers, and others with foster sisters or goddaughters. In fact, many men even commit the sin of arsenokoitia with their wives.” - John the Faster, Penitential, about AD 575.


It is found in The myth of Zeus and Ganymede, where Ganymede is raped.


The word seems to mean forced sex - rape, pedophilia, pederasty, sexual slavery, sexual misuse of servants and those of lower status, also the Sacred Prostitutes as they were given to, or sold to, the Temple as children, as well as the IDOLATRY aspect.


*

Alright. To be frank with you I saw even Dr. Erhman say the same thing at a symposium but he didnt make it a conclusion. He said there is doubt.

Anyway, would you give me your take on the old testament and its concept on homo sexual activity.

Thanks and Peace.

 

[averageJOE]

Any sex outside marriage is sin whether heterosexual or homosexual.

Sex predates marriage.

Marriage predates Christianity.

 

[firedragon]

Sex predates marriage.

Marriage predates Christianity.

Brother. This kind of statements are not to your own standard and you probably know that.

Nothing predates God. If Christianity was born of God, it is the same God who predates everything. So your statement is flawed, conceptually and to a Christian it doesn't make sense, maybe for you because you are not a Christian.

Hope you understand.

 

[Ingledsva]

Brother. This kind of statements are not to your own standard and you probably know that.

Nothing predates God. If Christianity was born of God, it is the same God who predates everything. So your statement is flawed, conceptually and to a Christian it doesn't make sense, maybe for you because you are not a Christian.

Hope you understand.

How is that statement flawed?


Even if we start with Adam and Eve stories - they were NOT married - and went merrily out to "be fruitful!"



*

 

[firedragon]

How is that statement flawed?


Even if we start with Adam and Eve stories - they were NOT married - and went merrily out to "be fruitful!"



*

I didnt talk of marriage.

 

[Ingledsva]

I didnt talk of marriage.

The reply that you said was "flawed" was this -

Sex predates marriage.

Marriage predates Christianity.

*

 

[s2a]

Brother. This kind of statements are not to your own standard and you probably know that.

Nothing predates God. If Christianity was born of God, it is the same God who predates everything. So your statement is flawed, conceptually and to a Christian it doesn't make sense, maybe for you because you are not a Christian.

Hope you understand.

Wow.

I'm neither gay nor a "Christian", and that's just a senseless remark.

Allow me to offer then..you are no Muslim. Just an advocate of chaos.

Now?

Gonna prove that you are a Muslim, or just leave it all alone as you likely should?

"Hope you understand"....

 

[gnomon]

I am gay, I am atheist, but I grew up in a "devout Christian home".

I understand that behavior is a choice; so I certainly understand that a celibate gay can be a Christian.

What I do not understand is the idea that a gay who is engaging in same sex relationships could, or would, identify themselves as Christian. It is a paradox to me.

We are well aware of the scriptures used to condemn homosexuality. The Old Testament, of course, condemned it. In the New Testament, Paul the Apostle called it "unnatural", made references towards homosexuality in the destruction of Sodom, and made it quite clear that "blah blah blah blah would not inherit the kingdom of Heaven", with homosexuality being on that list of blah blah blahs.

So: Gay Christians, specifically (it feels odd to type that; I feel like I'm typing an oxy moron), with the tenets of Christianity apparently so condemning of homosexuality, why do you find yourself drawn to it and how to you reconcile the apparent Christian doctrines that condemns us for what we are?

I'm an atheist. A straight atheist. I grew up and continue to live in a predominantly Christian culture.

Here is what I learned of Jesus among this community. That Jesus taught that acceptance of all fellow human beings takes precedence over judgment. That humanity doesn't understand the entirety of the universe and God's creation. Within this community I have had a roommate who was gay and his partner died of lung cancer. His community supported him through this hard time. His community was Episcopalian Christian. He was a Christian.

Christianity is just a generic term. Christianity is not really a religion by the term alone. There are many Christians who believe that all judgment among our actions are held by God alone and that Christianity is defined by trying to live by the actions of the Christ. There is literally nothing in the Christ's teachings about homosexuality. Nothing at all. Only the most foolish apologetics attempt to say otherwise.

A man who was a sacrifice of the only begotten Son, a strong metaphor among early human cultures, that touched hands among the sickest members of society is hardly a figure that matches with the modern condemnations society places upon homosexuals. I'm not surprised in the least that there are Christians who have no issues at all with homosexuality.

The actual issue lies outside of the concept of Christianity. It lies among other cultural views among many religious beliefs that belie a significant ignorance about human development.

 

[allright]

It is not a choice I am free to make. You're simply, but profoundly, wrong.

When I was little I believed in Jesus. Everybody I knew did. But I learned how to think and question for myself. That's what the solid teachers in my excellent private Christian schools taught me. I came to realize that the theology and legends did not make sense. I assumed that when I got hold of a Bible I would get solid information from Jesus. But it was the opposite. Jesus didn't say any of that, I learned.

All that was years before I realized that I am gay, and the Bible advocates my execution. Beating people to death with rocks was the standard method. Didn't do a thing to convince me that the Bible is true, lemme tell ya.

I am not able to believe that the God of the Bible is any more than a fictional character. It is not a free choice.

Tom

I said it was a choice whether to repent and accept Jesus as Lord. Only he can deliver from sin and give a person the power to overcome their sin
You cant change through your own efforts.
I know its true not just because Jesus said so but because I know former homosexuals in my church who are delivered and living happy heterosexual married lives some for twenty and thirty years

 

[averageJOE]

Brother. This kind of statements are not to your own standard and you probably know that.

Nothing predates God. If Christianity was born of God, it is the same God who predates everything. So your statement is flawed, conceptually and to a Christian it doesn't make sense, maybe for you because you are not a Christian.

Hope you understand.

Projecting your religious beliefs doesn't make them true.

Sex predates marriage.

Marriage predates christianity AND your religious beliefs.

Hope you understand.