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Please try to disprove anything I believe.

Tomorrows_Child

Active Member
Can you show me evidence that modern science disproves this?

I fail to understand why so many atheists on here claim to be "scientific" but don't seem to know the basics of what is happening right now.

The most recent theories in physics, as professed by such people as Prof. Kraus, indicate that the universe originated from an eternal, infinite pool of energy (the term energy is used rather than say...God) which is neither created nor destroyed and exists beyond our realm of time and space. The universe exists within our realm of time and space and although there is a lot of discourse on the issue of the universes span (finite or infinite), that discourse has moved ahead at a fast rate overt he last decade or so, with the idea that the universe being finite but the origins of the universe being infinite.

It can all be quite confusing because no one in the western scientific community feels like they are willing to put their finger on the truth which their own theories profess because if they did, well...
 

Taylor Seraphim

Angel of Reason
I do not wish to suggest that popularity determines truth -- no not at all. I merely say that people do believe, and that is evidence though not conclusive evidence. Just because some evidence is not conclusive does not make it non-evident. People believe in God, and that is a factor to be considered. They exist, and they say God exists.

All this proves is you did not read the definition, ANY evidence would be conclusive by definition. People beiliving in Yahweh does not make him any more likely to exist than Allah, Odin, or Zeus.

By 'Predictive qualities and reliability of logic' you refer to induction? I also like induction, but I do not pretend to know for certain that it is always correct. It is limited, because we cannot prove what happens in perpetuity, no matter how repeatable the object appears to be.

Correct, inductive logic can show what is more probable to be correct.

The only two truths are "I am a thinking thing" and "Something can not be both one thing and its opposite at the same instance in the same facet." Everything else is deducing or inducing what is more probable.

1. The information is not in need of a book for sustenance. Only you need the book. Information exists without books.

Ok show me information that did not originate among human perception.

2. Oh, I understand that gravity is a law in the sense that it is something we cannot change, but we are talking about the nature of reality. The theory of reality is not established. Information is the best explanation of existence, not energy. Energy by definition ought not to exist, because the Laws of Entropy imply that it must always decrease, yet it appears to exist. The theories to which you allude cannot explain the existence of energy, so they are flawed. Only information explains the universe's existence.

Incorrect, the laws of entropy imply that entropy must increase in a closed system, therefore all energy will lbe converted to heat (which is another form of energy).

Also just because a theory cannot answer every question does not make it flawed, scientist and other skeptics realize we do not know everything, something religions often clam.

Still waiting for proof that the universe is information, our perception of it is information but not the universe itself.

That is a social judgment, or are you saying that animals cannot form a society? They can, and we are part of that society. If you admit that torturing animals is wrong you innately agree that morality is social.

Don't be so pejorative.

Torturing an animal could be wrong because we innately feel it is, can you prove otherwise?
 

Taylor Seraphim

Angel of Reason
I fail to understand why so many atheists on here claim to be "scientific" but don't seem to know the basics of what is happening right now.

The most recent theories in physics, as professed by such people as Prof. Kraus, indicate that the universe originated from an eternal, infinite pool of energy (the term energy is used rather than say...God) which is neither created nor destroyed and exists beyond our realm of time and space. The universe exists within our realm of time and space and although there is a lot of discourse on the issue of the universes span (finite or infinite), that discourse has moved ahead at a fast rate overt he last decade or so, with the idea that the universe being finite but the origins of the universe being infinite.

It can all be quite confusing because no one in the western scientific community feels like they are willing to put their finger on the truth which their own theories profess because if they did, well...

If you want to claim a scientific theory claims something you need to link me to the peer reviewed scientific articles leading to this.

Also if a scientist simply says something like that without studies to back him up then that is a hypothesis not a theory.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
All this proves is you did not read the definition, ANY evidence would be conclusive by definition. People beiliving in Yahweh does not make him any more likely to exist than Allah, Odin, or Zeus.
Miriam Webster's dictionary say evidence can mean a visible sign of something. That's all it is. That's why people 'Weigh' evidence. If it were otherwise there'd be no need to weigh anything. You insisted there was no evidence of a Deity, but there was. I never claimed it was conclusive.
Ok show me information that did not originate among human perception.
Number exists without our perception. Mathematical relations and fractals exist without our perception. There are two examples of information that did not originate with human perception.
Incorrect, the laws of entropy imply that entropy must increase in a closed system, therefore all energy will lbe converted to heat (which is another form of energy).

Also just because a theory cannot answer every question does not make it flawed, scientist and other skeptics realize we do not know everything, something religions often clam.

Still waiting for proof that the universe is information, our perception of it is information but not the universe itself.
You insisted the universe consisted of energy, yet Thermodynamics proves that energy only decreases as entropy increases. Therefore the universe cannot consist only of energy. That is more than a flaw. That is a denunciation of your insistence that the universe consists of energy. If it were energy it could not exist, because energy only decreases, and there is a finite amount. I need not prove the universe is information. I need only prove the universe cannot be energy.
Don't be so pejorative.

Torturing an animal could be wrong because we innately feel it is, can you prove otherwise?
Now you are changing the subject, and I am not being pejorative.
 

Terese

Mangalam Pundarikakshah
Staff member
Premium Member
If energy is eternal and all things are simply made of energy, that means the universe is simply made up of energy and is therefore eternal as well.
No. Refer to my paper analogy. The universe is finite. Something that has been created will die. namely the universe.
 

Taylor Seraphim

Angel of Reason
Miriam Webster's dictionary say evidence can mean a visible sign of something. That's all it is. That's why people 'Weigh' evidence. If it were otherwise there'd be no need to weigh anything. You insisted there was no evidence of a Deity, but there was. I never claimed it was conclusive.

Where is this visible sign?
 

Taylor Seraphim

Angel of Reason
You insisted the universe consisted of energy, yet Thermodynamics proves that energy only decreases as entropy increases. Therefore the universe cannot consist only of energy. That is more than a flaw. That is a denunciation of your insistence that the universe consists of energy. If it were energy it could not exist, because energy only decreases, and there is a finite amount. I need not prove the universe is information. I need only prove the universe cannot be energy.

Incorrect.
 
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