Politically correct

[Curious George]

Now you're just putting words in my mouth which don't make a lot of sense with regard to anything I said.

Like I originally said, my problem with PC is that it makes it more difficult to treat people as equals.

Those were questions because that is how I interpreted what you said. I wanted clarification. How can I get clarification if I don't ask. Then I really would be putting words in your mouth.

How does it make it difficult to treat people as equals? Do you have examples?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I suspect that many attenuate their criticism of Israel for fear of being labeled antisemitic.

No antisemite I've ever met feared being labeled antisemitic. On the contrary, they were proud of it and happy to declare it, themselves. And of those who simply disagree with a Jew or two or all of Israel about something, that doesn't make them antisemitic.

Was that suppose to be relevant?

 

[Curious George]

Again, for those in the really slow lane, it is about context. I might say something to my neighbor over the fence that I wouldn't dream of saying in a church or movie theater. On RF, I often have to edit a comment that I think might be perilously close to breaking some rule. Much to the mods angst, I tend to skate very close to the border at times because I cannot say what I am actually thinking.

Ok so you speak differently based on familiarity. Isn't that normal?

As soon as I hear an anti-Trump comment in real life, I generally mirror what the speaker is saying. It saves a lot of vexation, but the person has shown me their hand very plainly and that gives me the opening I need to respond, should I choose to.

So political correctness is something you place on yourself to avoid arguments and you are not feeling like anyone is asking or expecting you to speak differently?

 

[Curious George]

You ask for an example in real life. This one just happened. I can come up with a thousand more where I have to curtail or ignore the truth to prevent harmful consequences.

Shoot pc probably started with the first married couple.

It is just such a strange version of PC, I figured more examples might help me categorize.

 

[Aldrnari]

You know, my dad has always been a little racist. Not in an aggressive, angry way, but he has some crass ideas on things and sometimes would say off-color remarks. Now, I know my dad, and he doesn't mean any harm, that said:

A few months into my relationship with my current (and final) GF, we went and visited my parents. I still had to commute to work, so she stayed behind and hung out in my old room while I was gone. Apparently, while I was away, she overheard my parents talking about her. My mom was commenting on how she had such a little "helium voice," and my dad replied with "Well, she is a little oriental girl."

Now to me, my mom is just being mom, and thinks my GF has a cute voice. As for my dad, I know he didn't mean anything by it, but that isn't the way my GF took it.

Alternatively, she comes from a very diverse (and very large) family. Not once has my color or ethnicity been a topic of conversation; only that I'm already like a son to her mom (after 3 years of being with her daughter). They've never made me feel like anything less than family.

That isn't to say my parents aren't nice and welcoming to my GF, because they are absolutely great. That also isn't to say that they don't love her, because they really do. After all is said and done, though, just that small remark has been enough to make her feel like she isn't really a part of my family... That's what happens when you describe/treat people in an "otherly" kind of way - it makes them feel like they are an outsider.

Small words, but people don't sometimes realise how much weight those words have, and then the damage is done.

 

[Nakosis]

Those were questions because that is how I interpreted what you said. I wanted clarification. How can I get clarification if I don't ask. Then I really would be putting words in your mouth.

How does it make it difficult to treat people as equals? Do you have examples?

Because their political identity might make them sensitive to it.

For example, my niece is bisexual but currently considers herself strictly Lesbian. Anyway we went to an Gay art exhibit. They were selling a book about how to tell whether of not your Dog was Gay. I thought this was funny writing a whole book about it and mentioned it to her. Since I don't think of her as different than anybody else, I didn't consider my that she might find my comment offensive. So not wanting to offend her, I limit the subjects I talk to her about.

 

[Skipper]

I am sorry, did you misunderstand the question?

I understood. I am sorry you do not understand my reply.

 

[Sunstone]

You ask for an example in real life. This one just happened. I can come up with a thousand more where I have to curtail or ignore the truth to prevent harmful consequences.

Shoot pc probably started with the first married couple.

Your example was far too vague to be either useful or convincing.

 

[PureX]

Was that suppose to be relevant?

Yes. I don't think anyone really "fears being called antisemitic".

 

[Sunstone]

People who complain about “political correctness” essentially want the freedom to say whatever they want while restricting the freedom of others to criticize them.

That certainly seems to be true of Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, Rush Limbaugh, and many other political pundits.

 

[Nakosis]

I suspect that many attenuate their criticism of Israel for fear of being labeled antisemitic.

I didn't before. In fact I never saw Jews as different. I never really understood why a Jew should be treated as different from anyone else.

However some folks see their history as their political identity. Because of that history, some people may have some sensitivities I would normally not give any consideration to in dealing with people.

To me Christmas is a secular holiday. It has no religious significance to me at all. So I said merry Christmas to a Jewish acquaintance of mine. He got offended. To me it was just a cordial holiday greeting. He could have just said happy Hanukkah in response. So he let me know he is Jewish and has to be treated differently because he is Jewish.

 

[Sunstone]

Excellent thread, Curious George. I'm surprised at how difficult it seems for many people to come up with explicit, concrete examples of when they changed their speech in a normal everyday setting in order to appease the PC gods -- although, to be sure, a few of the respondents have. But on the whole, it seems the fear of being censored for political correctness could be with many of us greater than the reality of being censored. It would be quite interesting if some group of researchers would do a rigorous study on this subject.

 

[Sunstone]

Everyday speech:

1. Be polite.
2. Be respectful
3. Be courteous
4. Do not use insulting words
5. Speak to others the way you want to be others to speak to you.
6. Listen to other viewpoints. You may learn something important.

That's good advice, although it ignores the question asked in the OP.

 

[PureX]

People of all nationalities and races can be racist and interrace racism does occur, whites do not have a monopoly on it and I would say it is reasonable to assume it was occurring in one form or another long before any colonialist adventures by whites.

And if you had read my post more carefully, you would have noticed that I did not assert that only white people are racial, ethnic, sexual, and geographical bigots, or even that only white people make such bigoted comments. What I was referring to was the long-standing privileged acceptance of white people's bigotry, in public. And how that acceptance has been discredited, and is now being called out for what it is, ... in the public space.

Lots of people are bigots. But no black man or woman, no gay man or woman, no foreign men or woman were ever allowed to express their bigotry against whites in public as white men and women once did, routinely, against others. And I think all this whining about "political correctness" is just the resentment of those who can no longer express their bigotry in public, unchallenged.

 

[Aldrnari]

That's good advice, although it ignores the question asked in the OP.

Good advice and insight is never irrelevant, IMO.

 

[Nakosis]

Everyday speech:

1. Be polite.
2. Be respectful
3. Be courteous
4. Do not use insulting words
5. Speak to others the way you want to be others to speak to you.
6. Listen to other viewpoints. You may learn something important.

Number 4 is kind of the problem. Just can't be sure what word someone else might find insulting.

And guys, tend to insult each other anyway. It's meant to be funny. It's meant to be inclusive. It's part of the culture. If you get offended by it, it sets you up to be excluded. If your insulted by a guy, that means you are fully accepted as being a member of the group.

 

[PureX]

Political identities creates a whole new reality of sensitivities for people to be offended by. So it's like a minefield, you don't know when your going to step into something. The easiest way is to limit interaction with folks until you know they are comfortable with you being yourself.

I'm thinking that the hypersensitivity that's causing you difficulty, here, may be your own. It's not your responsibility to avoid thinking or speaking about whatever peculiarity someone else has chosen to "identify" him or herself, with. If they take offense, that's their problem. Yours is just to ask yourself if you're being unfair to them, or denigrating them, and to understand why.

If you walk in the dew, your feet are gonna get wet. People are what they are. You can't live a life without offending some of them.

 

[Aldrnari]

Number 4 is kind of the problem. Just can't be sure what word someone else might find insulting.

And guys, tend to insult each other anyway. It's meant to be funny. It's meant to be inclusive. It's part of the culture. If you get offended by it, it sets you up to be excluded. If your insulted by a guy, that means you are fully accepted as being a member of the group.

At work I do behave as the example you give, but other coworkers have a different style of humor. It's better to get a feel for that specific person than to assume they should get your humor, and dismiss them if they don't. Meh...

 

[Nakosis]

I'm thinking that the hypersensitivity that's causing you difficulty, here, may be your own. It's not your responsibility to avoid thinking or speaking about whatever peculiarity someone else has chosen to "identify" him or herself, with. If they take offense, that's their problem. Yours is just to ask yourself if you're being unfair to them, or denigrating them, and to understand why.

If you walk in the dew, your feet are gonna get wet. People are what they are. You can't live a life without offending some of them.

You're right. I'd just rather not go about unintentionally offending folks. Why, cause it's easier to deal with unoffended people..

 

[Nakosis]

At work I do behave as the example you give, but other coworkers have a different style of humor. It's better to get a feel for that specific person than to assume they should get your humor, and dismiss them if they don't. Meh...

I'm not dismissing them, you just gotta treat them differently.