Poll: Give up your religion to save a stranger

[Unveiled Artist]

Religion is NOT an action.

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  A SYSTEM of BELIEFS. Beliefs. Beliefs. You cannot shut off, abandon, give up, turn back on beliefs as a mere choice. An ultimatum. A decision. You, yourself, say it is a gradual change. That change happens within you. Not a switch from the outside. Religion is a set of beliefs. Those beliefs are what bring about certain practices. You may give up some practices as a decision but you cannot just give up the beliefs. What aren't you getting about this? It is quite literally impossible for someone to just "give up" their religion at a moment's notice. No matter what the motivation may be. And if they say they have then they are either lying or never had a religion in the first place.

Do you base your religion on the dictionary?

 

[Draka]

@Draka

Who we are is what we do.

Our religion IS an action.

I was a witch not because I Believed in witchcraft. I was one because that practiced helped my life

I changed my belief/action/devotion for christianity when my mother brought us to Church (Ill combined that with Catholicism later in life)

I was a Christian not because of what I believed. I was a christian because of what I did for Christ. My belief was an action.

Who I was is not who I am now

Now I am a Buddha and I practice witchcraft and give reverence to the earth and help others

That is who I am because being a Buddha does not means thinking you are, it is an action. I am Buddhas because I "help" people from suffering. I am a part of nature because I devote myself to living with the earth from the seasons to how I eat.

If someone told me to give up helping others from suffering to save my child, that is what Buddhists do--so they cannot answer this question

If someone told me not to live with the earth to save my child, Id drop that in a heart beat.

Because religion IS an action. We can change our actions.

Would you do so to save a life?

I cannot. It is impossible.

Your claims here say you don't have and have never had any actual religion. That you just went with a "flow". Fell into habits you seemed to think would do something for you. Practices without beliefs is not religion. I posted the definition of religion. You can claim up and down that religion is actions but you will still be wrong.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I had to ask that first. Let me read what youre talking about. Im making my point very simple and short

 

[Draka]

Do you base your religion on the dictionary?

I base the definition of a word on the definition of a word. Apparently you make up definitions to suit your purpose.

 

[Draka]

I have already said one can give up particular practices of a religion. One can do that to save a life, which seems to be your whole question really. If one can give up practices. But they cannot actually give up the religion. That is the point. Yes, you can give up going to church, you can lie and say you are not whatever you are, but that will not change your religion.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Okay. Draka. I can address your points more accurately. This is what I personally see is true. Religion is not something you can take out of the dictionary. If you base your beliefs on the dictionary, I have no clue what to say. That said.

Your life is yours to give or take, you have control over that. You, however, do NOT have control over what you believe. Belief is NOT a choice.

Beliefs ARE practices. We have control over our practices.

When I stoped believing/practicing in Catholicm, it was not WHO I was anymore. According to me, I am NOT part of Christ's body now. Who I was changed (we all change) and as I matured in my faith, I learned WHO I was (my practice) did not make me spiritually healthy. So, like quiting cigarrettes, I stopped.

People don't decide one day to just "turn away" from their religion, their worldview. It is a gradual thing.

It was not a overnight thing. The less I went to Mass, the more I became a more positive person (or at least I wasn't focused on what I thought were sins). Now, gradually, who I WAS is now gone. I GAVE IT UP for my own spiritual, mental, and physical well being.

. Their reasons have been questioned. Their foundation cracked.

My foundation (practice/belief) was not cracked. I LOVE Catholicism as a faith. If I believed in God, I would be Catholic or Santera. I am an atheist and I will always be. Not because that is what I disbelief, it is because of what is missing from my practice, my unision with God. That is what I feel disbelief to me is, when you're union with god is not only about his non-existence but ALSO about the relationship (however defined) one has with god.

The foundation did not cracked. It matured.

You are making some assumption of a religious practice then. Not religion itself.

Religion IS the practice

Religion IS your set of beliefs. Y

The set of beliefs ARE my practice

For example, I do not kill not just because I dont believe in killiing. That doesn't make sense.. I can kill millions of times and still not believe in it. HOWEVER, if I physically stoped doing so, that IS my belief=an action. What I DO. That is my moral.

My beliefs is not to kill. How do I know? Because I don't.

You may abandon going to church or doing certain rituals, but you cannot turn off your way of understanding the world and THAT is what religion is.

Exactly. Those are practices. That's exactly what I did AND that is why I dont believe anymore because I don't PRACTICE. I feel that is the same for everyone.

Okay, the thing is, for many people there are no real "practices", just beliefs. Just believing is their religion. How they view the world. How they view others. That IS religion

Religion is a practice. Not many people will agree with me. In your definition from the dictionary you quoted, it doesn't describe beliefs, it describes practices.

I base the definition of a word on the definition of a word. Apparently you make up definitions to suit your purpose.

• the belief in a god or in a group of gods (What is that based on? I can believe in anything, that doesn't mean it's true unless it changes my life by my practice)
• : an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods Practices
• : an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group

1. : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion>b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
   
2. 2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
   
3. 3archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
   
4. 4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith What is this based on? I can believe in anything but that doesn't mean it's true.

re·li·gion·lessadjective

. Smoking cigarettes is not who you are. It is a habit.

It was an analogy or metaphor.

A SYSTEM of BELIEFS. Beliefs. Beliefs. You cannot shut off, abandon, give up,

Beliefs are practices. As such, yes we can.

Think about it.

If you kept murdering people and believed "murdering is wrong" how would I know this, through your belief (murder is wrong) or through your practice (your killing)?

In MY faith we look at practice. Those practices, just like other practice-focused religions, IS our beleif. As such, we would look at your actions. We would think you are not telling the truth or you dont understand your true self, maybe because your belief/practice is conflicting with what you say you believe.

Which should we look at? Action or belief?

Why do you think they are separate?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@Draka Reread I edited

 

[Draka]

Okay. Draka. I can address your points more accurately. This is what I personally see is true. Religion is not something you can take out of the dictionary. If you base your beliefs on the dictionary, I have no clue what to say. That said.

Good golly almighty. I do not base my beliefs upon the dictionary...I base my understanding of a word upon its actual definition which is found within a dictionary.

Beliefs ARE practices. We have control over our practices.

Beliefs are not practices. Beliefs are thoughts. Thoughts can be put into actions, depending on the kind of thought, but thoughts are thoughts, not practices.

When I stoped believing/practicing in Catholicm, it was not WHO I was anymore. According to me, I am NOT part of Christ's body now. Who I was changed (we all change) and as I matured in my faith, I learned WHO I was (my practice) did not make me spiritually healthy. So, like quiting cigarrettes, I stopped.

It was not a overnight thing. The less I went to Mass, the more I became a more positive person (or at least I wasn't focused on what I thought were sins). Now, gradually, who I WAS is now gone. I GAVE IT UP for my own spiritual, mental, and physical well being.

My foundation (practice/belief) was not cracked. I LOVE Catholicism as a faith. If I believed in God, I would be Catholic or Santera. I am an atheist and I will always be. Not because that is what I disbelief, it is because of what is missing from my practice, my unision with God. That is what I feel disbelief to me is, when you're union with god is not only about his non-existence but ALSO about the relationship (however defined) one has with god.

The foundation did not cracked. It matured.

You claim to be an atheist and then try to tell a theist that beliefs are not religion? If you are an atheist then what I said was right before. You have never had a real religion. You have "tried on" religions by indulging in their practices, perhaps hoping to find something there, hoping to be led to belief, but not actually believing. Those who actually believe have a religion and they cannot just turn off the believing. Maybe that's why you don't understand.

Religion IS the practice

The set of beliefs ARE my practice

No, you have that backwards. Religion is a set of beliefs (thoughts, opinions, ponderings), practices are rituals based upon said beliefs that go along with them and fall under the umbrella of "religion". Practices don't make religion.

For example, I do not kill not just because I dont believe in killiing. That doesn't make sense.. I can kill millions of times and still not believe in it. HOWEVER, if I physically stoped doing so, that IS my belief=an action. What I DO. That is my moral.

Nope. One can go against what they believe in. Happens all the time. Depends on situation. Whether it is something that can be reasoned away by necessity or situation or it is just a matter of hypocrisy due to cowardice or something else, one can act against something they think they should or should not do. The action is not the belief. The belief is the thought, the opinion as to what is right or wrong. Whether one adheres to that is another thing entirely and is what may actually cause the beginning of cognitive dissonance which may lead to eventually questioning one's religion in the first place.

My beliefs is not to kill. How do I know? Because I don't.

You kill all the time, we all do, we just reason it away. We put more value on different forms of life than others in order to justify the defense or the killing of one species over another. I'm sure you've killed bugs in your lifetime, plants, other things. You just choose not to value certain forms of life as much as others. This is what we all do otherwise we would drive ourselves crazy with internal hypocrisy. See? That is an internal thought. Your decision to place different values. The actions you take based upon those thoughts are practices, but the thoughts are there whether you realize it or not and they are a part of your belief system.

Exactly. Those are practices. That's exactly what I did AND that is why I dont believe anymore because I don't PRACTICE. I feel that is the same for everyone.

No, it isn't the same for everyone. You have already admitted to being an atheist. You didn't have the foundation of the belief before the onset of practices. you didn't have the same motivation for practicing as those who honestly believe. You appear to have practiced to gain belief or some benefit that believing would supposedly get, while others practiced because they already believed. If you truly believe in something then stopping a practice associated with said religion will not make you stop believing in said religion. Not all Christians go to church, not all Catholics take communion, doesn't make them less Christian or less Catholic, just means they aren't participating in particular practices. They can still have their core beliefs, still be Christians though. The shedding of a practice doesn't shed the religion. shedding the beliefs which brought them there does.

Religion is a practice. Not many people will agree with me. In your definition from the dictionary you quoted, it doesn't describe beliefs, it describes practices.

• the belief in a god or in a group of gods (What is that based on? I can believe in anything, that doesn't mean it's true unless it changes my life by my practice)
• : an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods Practices
• : an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group

1. : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion>b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
   
2. 2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3. 3archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4. 4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith What is this based on? I can believe in anything but that doesn't mean it's true.

re·li·gion·lessadjective

Funny that you ignore the word belief throughout all of that. A "system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules" does not boil down to "practices". You ignored "interest", "beliefs", "attitudes", "cause", "principle" in favor of just the parts that elude to some type of action. They are ALL a part of religion. Religion is the canopy umbrella, it is the canopy and beliefs themselves are the support pole holding up the canopy and everything else, such as practices, are what are standing under the umbrella. Without the pole the canopy doesn't hold up. However, a practice standing under the umbrella can be removed and the religion is still there.

I can remove any one of these chairs and the canopy will still be there. However without the support the canopy comes down. That is religion. The beliefs are the foundation, the support, the religion covers the beliefs and practices and more underneath.

It was an analogy or metaphor.

Perhaps, but one that didn't fit the subject at all. ^That is how you do metaphor.

Beliefs are practices. As such, yes we can.

Think about it.

If you kept murdering people and believed "murdering is wrong" how would I know this, through your belief (murder is wrong) or through your practice (your killing)?

In MY faith we look at practice. Those practices, just like other practice-focused religions, IS our beleif. As such, we would look at your actions. We would think you are not telling the truth or you dont understand your true self, maybe because your belief/practice is conflicting with what you say you believe.

Which should we look at? Action or belief?

Why do you think they are separate?

I've already covered the rest of this above.

 

[Draka]

I've said before that one cannot begin to move on from a religion unless the foundation of it was damaged/cracked. The foundation of a religion are the beliefs themselves. If beliefs start to change due to various reasons, then the foundation isn't as strong. If the beliefs were never there anyway then there was no foundation, and thus, no real religion.

In other words, @Carlita , you were never under a canopy in the first place if you never put up a support pole. You have just been using the chairs normally found under different canopies. It's easy to play musical chairs with different patio sets that already exist, it's another thing entirely to forge and build your own support pole, put up your canopy, and arrange your set to suit you. It's also far harder to take down than just getting up and moving to another chair.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Ima reply to your post in full. This will not change:

My beliefs ARE my practices. What I do reflects my beliefs. My beliefs reflect what I do. They cannot be separate.

My example: I believe murder is wrong. Why? Because I do not murder.

If beliefs are based on thoughts, than I can believe that murder is wrong, I can still murder and it wouldnt matter.

Anyway, give me a minute.

 

[Draka]

You can believe what you like about your own path, but please realize that your personal definitions do not speak to the reality of religion for the vast majority of people in the world. You have a very strange way of looking at things which simply does not hold true for most people.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Actually, you completely insulted me. Atheism is a disbelief in god. Religion is a set of beliefs and practices that define one's lifestyle, morals, and worldview. Beliefs in My religion are practices. They CANNOT be separated. Atheism has nothing to do with this.

I do not base my beliefs upon the dictionary...I base my understanding of a word upon its actual definition which is found within a dictionary

This may seem like an elementary question, but.. "I base my understading of the word upon its definition which is within the dictionary=I base my beliefs on the dictionary"

What's the difference between these two statements?

Beliefs are not practices. Beliefs are thoughts. Thoughts can be put into actions, depending on the kind of thought, but thoughts are thoughts, not practices.

Beliefs (Religious belief systems) not "I believe that there is a bug on my ceiling" are my practices. I cannot separate my thoughts from my actions.

I cannot separate my thoughts from my actions when it comes to religion. My religious actions from meditation to, I don't know, wanting to make a sandwhich, are a part of me. It is what I believe in, what I want to do, why I want to do it, the meaning behind it, all of that is part of my actions.

I do not base my understanding of religion within the dictionary. I base it on my experiences, my beliefs, AND my practices. I do not sepate the three.

You claim to be an atheist and then try to tell a theist that beliefs are not religion?

Huh?

I am an atheist; I do not believe in deities. That has nothing to do with what I believe outside of a deity-oriented faith.

Then tell an theist that beliefs are not a religion? I am telling a theist (you're a theist?) that (religious) beliefs are practices-->that is what I believe; you do not need to agree. That does not mean I am wrong.

I have no idea where you got that claim from.

You have never had a real religion

That is an insult. Atheism means disbelief in deities. If you are a theist, I can somewhat understand why you'd say that. Just rephrase your opinion so it is not an insult.

Real religion is the practice and worldview that people make their lifestyle from. It doesn't need to involve deities. It doesnt need to be supernatural. It is deeply personal and it is not based on a definition within the dictionary. The word religion is a very personal world; and, to say any person atheist or not does not have a real religion when he or she (and I) say they do is a total insult to their well being.

Please do not do that again.

Religion is a set of beliefs (thoughts, opinions, ponderings), practices are rituals based upon said beliefs that go along with them and fall under the umbrella of "religion". Practices don't make religion.

I am talking about religious beliefs. I do not separate my religious thoughts, opinions, and ponderings from my rituals and practices.

People claim they belief in god a lot.

Then I think, yes... I believe in aliens... then I ask them, how do you believe in god..

and they say "because I devote my life to him"

and I say, okay. Now I understand. What do you do to devote your life to them.

And they say I pray, worship, go to service, charityy, etc

and I say, aah! now I understand your belief because your practice.

And they say, "yes. how can you believe in something if you don't show it in your life."

If your beliefs are not connected to your practice, then you are believing "just because"?

Perhaps, but one that didn't fit the subject at all. ^That is how you do metaphor.

You'd have to talk with the poster about that. I undersstood the full post as a metaphor between how we can give up our religion to save someone. Whether or not you saw it that way or even agree with either of us is not the point of this particular discussion.




I just don't understand how you can separate religious beliefs from religious practices. Even the dictionary put it all in one definition.

EDIT

You can believe what you like about your own path, but please realize that your personal definitions do not speak to the reality of religion for the vast majority of people in the world. You have a very strange way of looking at things which simply does not hold true for most people.

My religion, of course, does not speak for the majority of the world. That is how I personally see the world. I just don't throw it down their throats.

I actually don't feel it's important that my beliefs has to hold true for most people. As long as it makes sense, logical, and it changes my life and well being that is what religion means to me. I can call it, I don't know, Jaminoki, if you like. Regardless the definition, the rituals, ceremonies, etc I do are the thoughts, ponderings, and opinions that I have. I can't separate it.

I know many people that are like that. Practice-based religions have a different view point than belief-based. You have to respect that.

However, a practice standing under the umbrella can be removed and the religion is still there.

In practice-based religions, it is not. I am a Buddha when I am conducting myself as one. If I forget about other people's well being, start going to church, and forget about the Dharma, I am no longer a Buddha. I wouldn't even consider myself a Buddhist. Not because I believe in the Dharma. That's a given. But without practice, the Dharma is not the Dharma anymore.

That is how I see reality.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@Draka

Short point. Then I'll pick up when I get to work.

However, a practice standing under the umbrella can be removed and the religion is still there.

In practice-based religions, it is not.

I am a Buddha when I conduct (action) myself as one. If I forget about other people's well being, start going to church, and forget about the Dharma, I am no longer a Buddha. I wouldn't even consider myself a Buddhist.

Not because I believe in the Dharma. Without practice, the Dharma is not the Dharma anymore.

 

[Draka]

Actually, you completely insulted me. Atheism is a disbelief in god. Religion is a set of beliefs and practices that define one's lifestyle, morals, and worldview. Beliefs in My religion are practices. They CANNOT be separated. Atheism has nothing to do with this.

I simply do not understand how beliefs can be practices. You practice because you have beliefs that ask to be practiced upon. Not all beliefs are able to be practiced. If one believes in reincarnation how does one practice that short of dying and being reincarnated? If one believes in a Source deity which flows through all life how does one practice that? It is a thought. Not a practice. An opinion, something to think about, ponder upon, it doesn't have an action. And if religion is a set of beliefs, which I have been saying and you just now said as well, then religion is a set of thoughts and opinions. Not actions. Actions may be involved from time to time, but beliefs are thoughts and thoughts are not always actionable.

This may seem like an elementary question, but.. "I base my understading of the word upon its definition which is within the dictionary=I base my beliefs on the dictionary"

What's the difference between these two statements?

Uh, one is an understanding of language and how it works and how to communicate and the other is personal philosophy to base a spiritual understanding upon. One is external while the other is internal.

Beliefs (Religious belief systems) not "I believe that there is a bug on my ceiling" are my practices. I cannot separate my thoughts from my actions.

I cannot separate my thoughts from my actions when it comes to religion. My religious actions from meditation to, I don't know, wanting to make a sandwhich, are a part of me. It is what I believe in, what I want to do, why I want to do it, the meaning behind it, all of that is part of my actions.

I do not base my understanding of religion within the dictionary. I base it on my experiences, my beliefs, AND my practices. I do not sepate the three.

You may not, but they are separate things and most people do.

Huh?

I am an atheist; I do not believe in deities. That has nothing to do with what I believe outside of a deity-oriented faith.

Then tell an theist that beliefs are not a religion? I am telling a theist (you're a theist?) that (religious) beliefs are practices-->that is what I believe; you do not need to agree. That does not mean I am wrong.

I have no idea where you got that claim from.

That is an insult. Atheism means disbelief in deities. If you are a theist, I can somewhat understand why you'd say that. Just rephrase your opinion so it is not an insult.

Okay, perhaps with Buddhism you have a religion as it is a non-theistic philosophy of thought, but it is still a set of beliefs, a philosophy of living. As to other religions though, the idea of being Catholic or even practicing witchcraft, while being atheistic in thought just doesn't make sense. Catholicism is a theistic religion. Even Witchcraft calls upon belief in something supernatural in some way. Neither of these can actually be held as a religion if you don't actually believe. Otherwise it is just comes off as "sampling" a religion, not actually having it personally. In theistic religions actual real deity belief of some kind is required. That's what makes it a religion. And theistic religions cannot just be given up without a deconstruction of their foundation. For you to suggest otherwise, for you to suggest that someone could just "give up" their religion on a whim is insulting on your part as well. You put up this question, asking if someone would "give up" their religion to save a life, saying that you could, inferring that people who say they couldn't or wouldn't are somehow selfish, when it is, in all reality, impossible for a theist to do, is condescending and shows a lack of understanding what brings theists to be theists in the first place and what religion really is for the overwhelming vast majority of the population of this planet.

Real religion is the practice and worldview that people make their lifestyle from. It doesn't need to involve deities. It doesnt need to be supernatural. It is deeply personal and it is not based on a definition within the dictionary. The word religion is a very personal world; and, to say any person atheist or not does not have a real religion when he or she (and I) say they do is a total insult to their well being.

Please do not do that again.

Then I apologize as you are a Buddhist and it is a non-theistic religion. Now, if you would kindly not infer that theists even could just "give up" their religion and negate their beliefs entirely that would be great.

I shall leave it there.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Coming from a belief-based religion, it is impossible to turn from one's belief to save another human being. What they can do (I think?) is turn from their practices--going to church, prayer, etc.

That is the point of the question; and, that is why the cigarrete example worked well.

When I meditate, for example, I have no "belief" that meditation will bring me at peace and any "whys" in why I do so. I come to my cushion with a blank mind, and whatever experiences I get from the meditation and the action itself that brought those experiences, are my religion-that is my Belief.

In belief-based religions, there needs to be a why or a belief that prompts one to actually "go to their cushion." They may need to believe in god in order to pray. They need to believe they will be saved in order to be saved. And so forth.

In practiced-based religions (so far I know eastern and some pagan worldviews) one doesn't just "believe". That's like saying chocolate candy taste delicious before tasting it first. The actual having a relationship or interaction with their said deity confirms their "belief" or experience/practice.

It's like if I were a pagan who focus on mythology, I can read about the mythologies of the different gods, but my belief won't be there until I practice and actually communicate, do offerings, etc with the said god for my belief-system to mature.

My point: Believing only doesn't make sense. If belief was not practice, I can be christian now. Pagan the next hour. Hindu, the following hour. and just flip to different religions per hour becuase there is no practice interconnected with that religion to make that belief a religion.

I see that often on RF. Fliping labels and worldviews as if there is in my personal opinion there is a real change without the actual practice.

I wasn't Catholic because I believed that Christ saved me. I was Catholic because I participated in Christ's birth, death, and resurrection at Mass. I participated in confession. I participated in taking the Eucharist. I did things that made me who I am. My belief means nothing without it being my practice.

Now that I no longer practice, I have no belief in Christ. It's gone. I gave it up.

Practice-based beliefs are like that. Catholicism is a practice-bsaed faith. Other denominations are belief-based. That's alright. As long as they respect each other's point of view, then its fine. They dont.

You can believe what you like about your own path, but please realize that your personal definitions do not speak to the reality of religion for the vast majority of people in the world. You have a very strange way of looking at things which simply does not hold true for most people.

Yes. Each person's belief/religion/practice are personal. It defines how we see the world. So, of course, we will speak from our viewpoint. It is hard to speak objectively if one's reality conflicts with anothers.

For example, my trying to believe in god is impossible. It's like trying to believe nothing exists as if it were a being of itself. Without my having a relationship, practicing, actually doing things with god in me, there is no belief. In my faith, I need to do things in order for things to be beliefs for me. I feel uncomfortable believing in my mother's love I cannot do anything for her to experience that love for myself and she mine.

I simply do not understand how beliefs can be practices. You practice because you have beliefs that ask to be practiced upon. Not all beliefs are able to be practiced. I

It's the other way around for me. (Not speaking for everyone).

I don't believe in the Dharma before I practice. I believe in the Dharma when I practice. The Dharma is a practice not a belief. So anything I do outside the Dharma (say kill someone), I lost that "belief". I don't gain it again until I practice.

Not all religions are like that. I wouldn't compare belief-based religions on practice-based religions. Maybe get to understand it from a practice based perspective would be helpful.

. If one believes in reincarnation how does one practice that short of dying and being reincarnated?

I can only speak for myself on this. I didn't believe in reincarnation until I actually saw a spirit. When I had that experience, then I knew my practice in the Dharma let's my karma continue after my passing. I think you are mixing faith and belief in this context. I have faith that my karma will continue to the point I know. The only way I know is by my practice. So they are interconnected.

If one believes in a Source deity which flows through all life how does one practice that? It is a thought

The Source should lead one to practice, right? For example, the Holy Spirit leads people to follow Christ's teachings.

It is a thought. Not a practice. An opinion, something to think about, ponder upon, it doesn't have an action. And if religion is a set of beliefs, which I have been saying and you just now said as well, then religion is a set of thoughts and opinions. Not actions. Actions may be involved from time to time, but beliefs are thoughts and thoughts are not always actionable.

We have to disagree here. The dictionary says that a religion not only is a set of opinions, it also says its has ceremonies, service, worship, etc. These are practices or actions.

Your'e right not all beliefs are actionable. My religious beliefs are or they wouldn't be beliefs.

You may not, but they are separate things and most people do.

We have different ways of seeing things. Regardless the words I use, at least I know what religion means to me given its a personal thing. I can't speak for other people. I just can say this is how I see reality.

Okay, perhaps with Buddhism you have a religion as it is a non-theistic philosophy of thought, but it is still a set of beliefs, a philosophy of living. As to other religions though, the idea of being Catholic or even practicing witchcraft, while being atheistic in thought just doesn't make sense. Catholicism is a theistic religion. Even Witchcraft calls upon belief in something supernatural in some way. Neither of these can actually be held as a religion if you don't actually believe. Otherwise it is just comes off as "sampling" a religion, not actually having it personally. In theistic religions actual real deity belief of some kind is required. That's what makes it a religion. And theistic religions cannot just be given up without a deconstruction of their foundation. For you to suggest otherwise, for you to suggest that someone could just "give up" their religion on a whim is insulting on your part as well. You put up this question, asking if someone would "give up" their religion to save a life, saying that you could, inferring that people who say they couldn't or wouldn't are somehow selfish, when it is, in all reality, impossible for a theist to do, is condescending and shows a lack of understanding what brings theists to be theists in the first place and what religion really is for the overwhelming vast majority of the population of this planet.

I think with this, I just focus on how I see things. Here are some links that may help.

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/how-do-you-describe-your-practices-as-beliefs.183406/

http://www.religiousforums.com/thre...r-religion-as-a-practice.183076/#post-4567720

 

[Quintessence]

I'd just like to point something out here. When even the academics and scholars specializing in the study of religions can't agree on what "religion" is, isn't it a touch odd to rely on a standard dictionary (or even a specialist dictionary) to define such an incredibly complex facet of human culture?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'd just like to point something out here. When even the academics and scholars specializing in the study of religions can't agree on what "religion" is, isn't it a touch odd to rely on a standard dictionary (or even a specialist dictionary) to define such an incredibly complex facet of human culture?

Yeah. I'd think the definitions for religion are more personal than say one for what a chair is. I'm sure both of our views aren't completely off the mark; but, yes, there is no consensus on the definition.

 

[Quintessence]

Yeah. I'd think the definitions for religion are more personal than say one for what a chair is. I'm sure both of our views aren't completely off the mark; but, yes, there is no consensus on the definition.

Some of your views - or perhaps how you articulate them - are a bit odd, though.

(frankly, mine are hardly the norm either within my Abrahamic-dominated culture)

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Some of your views - or perhaps how you articulate them - are a bit odd, though.

(frankly, mine are hardly the norm either within my Abrahamic-dominated culture)

Hey. What can I say. Its hard to pin nose my beliefs without refering to my practices. It could be how I articulate it. That wouldnt surprise me.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Then I apologize as you are a Buddhist and it is a non-theistic religion. Now, if you would kindly not infer that theists even could just "give up" their religion and negate their beliefs entirely that would be great.

Im asking if people can give up their practices in order to save someone else.

I can give up my practice because my practice ane belief go together. Many theist have practices. So, I am asking, for example, can a Catholic turn from her practice/religion to save another.

This has nothing to do with how you personally see belief. My question was not based on belief as how theist see it but belief as in practice.

If you thought it that way, I am sorry.