Poll: Is God All-Good?

[Trailblazer]

as far as i can see human is only creature who can in free will say 'good morning' to God.

God does not need anyone saying "good morning" to Him because God has no needs.
God might want us to say that, but only because it is good for us to seek nearness to God.

 

[leov]

God does not need anyone saying "good morning" to Him because God has no needs.
God might want us to say that, but only because it is good for us to seek nearness to God.

God is consciousness, creative consciousness, humans is copy of creative consciousness, humans need love, God needs love and understanding, God is not just brute force.

 

[Trailblazer]

God is consciousness, creative consciousness, humans is copy of creative consciousness, humans need love, God needs love and understanding, God is not just brute force.

To say that God has needs is anthropomorphic, turning God into a human being. I do not believe that God has needs because I believe God is independent of His creatures. That is an essential belief of my religion.
“Regard thou the one true God as One Who is apart from, and immeasurably exalted above, all created things. The whole universe reflecteth His glory, while He is Himself independent of, and transcendeth His creatures.” Gleanings, p. 166

Humans need love because humans have needs. God loves us but God does not need to be loved in return. God wants us to love Him only because His love cannot reach us if we do not love Him. Think of it as a channel through which love can flow. If we block that channel by closing our heart to God, then God's love cannot get through to us.
5: O SON OF BEING! Love Me, that I may love thee. If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee. Know this, O servant. The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 4

 

[Workman]

Science tries to explain the natural world. You wouldn't be corresponding via the internet if it wasn't for science.
I would of course argue that God cannot know what it is to BE.
You are either lucky or deluded if you think you know all "The Works" (what's that??)

which is exactly why I tend not to correspond this science, Be-cause MAN created it(science)...and science created your reality.....as your ‘Natural’.

But I now to be in all the foolishness of it....man-made BE!

Like you say; your the one without GOD to its equation. I’m not the one living that lie..I speak in truths..even if it hurts you! Get use to it. After-all, there be only one Person whom KNOWs which is between all of them(Truth&Lie).

I am ‘The Liar’, who knows all truths(spirit).
You see...My reality(equation) does not have questions..like yours. You don’t seem to understand with lies are to be from many questions...my reality does not have questions...I have answers, and they are truths..to all your questions...and be exactly why you are what your question is!(your asking ‘what’s that?’)and I am to whom my answer BE!.....GOD was/is THE Answer. Not a question.

 

[Workman]

But why are you stopping with God? If you deny the existence of the IsAll, the creator of God, then you are living within a lie. Can you not see, with the amount of lies that lives among you?

With a name like yours...what can I say..except the questions you’ll make of yourself. Get out of your head!..stop thinking! But DO some answers...

It all comes down to meanings...you don’t know em..hence the mis-information, mis-communications...The Mis-understanding.

 

[74x12]

Supposedly, God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and omnibenevolent (all-good).

Since we're focusing on the last one, there's supposedly the problem of evil for the last one.

My church is splitting due to the whole gay thing. My cat is probably dying (no eye in one eye, blurry eyed in another, can't eat much and stumbling around). And despite spending money advertising and despite being pretty okay in terms of skill with self-employed gig, I can't seem to break through (most calls I do get about computers are either solicitations to phish for my info, calls that are for problems completely out of my depth like making actual glass for the computer, or people who call when I'm visiting family for Christmas).

I'm not gonna discuss how much of this I could probably fix, but rather use it as an object lesson for the study of whether God is all-good or not.

To me, I'm pretty certain God exists (not only from the personal changes in my life, but also because of philosophical reasons), but right now I'm only not sure how good he is. In fact I'm pretty mad at God.

Well He is all good but as for His omniscience and omnipresence that's in this universe. But we have to ask why God put us here ... We can't blame all sin on God. God didn't make sin or death.

Satan was the ringleader so he receives no forgiveness. But we have a chance. That's why this life is so hard because we have to be tested.

Just pray for your cat and then believe God can heal it. Sometimes it's a test to see if you'll keep on believing against the odds. I know it might seem like something God wouldn't heal; but you can't limit God. It's no problem for God.

I'm not joking it worked for my cat who was very sick. Even though she even seemed to get worse; I kept believing. Because I also lost one cat one time when I started doubting God would heal it. Then it died the very next day after I doubted. Not kidding. So when the other cat got sick I was determined to believe this time. Even though I wanted to doubt; I refused.

It's the mercy and goodness of God that leads us to repentance. God knows this so He is willing to do good things for us; even though we might be angry at God or doubting God. That's the love of God. But if bad things happen then it's just a life lesson and trust me God can make all things new and it's not the end of the world.

Hope you're encouraged

 

[leov]

To say that God has needs is anthropomorphic, turning God into a human being. I do not believe that God has needs because I believe God is independent of His creatures. That is an essential belief of my religion.
“Regard thou the one true God as One Who is apart from, and immeasurably exalted above, all created things. The whole universe reflecteth His glory, while He is Himself independent of, and transcendeth His creatures.” Gleanings, p. 166

Humans need love because humans have needs. God loves us but God does not need to be loved in return. God wants us to love Him only because His love cannot reach us if we do not love Him. Think of it as a channel through which love can flow. If we block that channel by closing our heart to God, then God's love cannot get through to us.
5: O SON OF BEING! Love Me, that I may love thee. If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee. Know this, O servant. The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 4

as above so below...

 

[Trailblazer]

as above so below...

 

[leov]

"For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known"

 

[Trailblazer]

"For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known"

I believe we will know a whole lot more after we die and ascend to heaven.
What has been hidden and concealed will be revealed.
Do you believe that we will see God face to face?

 

[Workman]

When has religion explained anything that science can't explain better.

Is that so...so how is it your dealing with a lot of problems in life? Can science know that? Then how I am to know of what your dealing with..is a lot of problems. I KNOW EXACTLY THE PROBLEM your dealing with....And you know exactly what I’m talking about!..unless off-course you wish to lie about it.

 

[leov]

I believe we will know a whole lot more after we die and ascend to heaven.
What has been hidden and concealed will be revealed.
Do you believe that we will see God face to face?

knowledge is better when it comes to us here - this way we never die.

 

[Trailblazer]

knowledge is better when it comes to us here - this way we never die.

Can you explain?

 

[leov]

Can you explain?

15"and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery. "

it takes practical knowledge (Gnosis) that we are not our physical body but really just live in one. Adam and Eve became mortal when they were deceived that their bodies are them.

 

[Bird123]

Supposedly, God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and omnibenevolent (all-good).

Since we're focusing on the last one, there's supposedly the problem of evil for the last one.

My church is splitting due to the whole gay thing. My cat is probably dying (no eye in one eye, blurry eyed in another, can't eat much and stumbling around). And despite spending money advertising and despite being pretty okay in terms of skill with self-employed gig, I can't seem to break through (most calls I do get about computers are either solicitations to phish for my info, calls that are for problems completely out of my depth like making actual glass for the computer, or people who call when I'm visiting family for Christmas).

I'm not gonna discuss how much of this I could probably fix, but rather use it as an object lesson for the study of whether God is all-good or not.

To me, I'm pretty certain God exists (not only from the personal changes in my life, but also because of philosophical reasons), but right now I'm only not sure how good he is. In fact I'm pretty mad at God.

God is all good. Why are you mad at God? Is it because you can't have everything your way? Is it because you can't have it made? Is it because there are challenges in your life? Is it because it's time that your cat must move on?

God is Unconditional Love. Unconditional Love always does what is Best for the other.

Do you really know yourself and what is truly best for you?

Much more knowledge lives beyond the surface of things. There is a much larger picture you do not see, yet it stares us all in the face.

Through the lifetimes when you reach true Understanding, you will no longer be mad.

Perhaps if you widen your view, there will be something you can Discover.

That's what I see. It's very clear.

 

[Trailblazer]

God is all good. Why are you mad at God? Is it because you can't have everything your way? Is it because you can't have it made? Is it because there are challenges in your life? Is it because it's time that your cat must move on?

God is Unconditional Love. Unconditional Love always does what is Best for the other.

With all due respect, I consider that very insensitive. Her cat is dying and what she needs is compassion, not a lecture about God and how great you think God is. If God was Unconditional Love God would not allow so much suffering in the world. You might think you know God, but God is unknowable, although we can know what kind of world God created, a storehouse of suffering. I do not consider that "All-Loving."

Go ahead though, have fun defending the God you have made in your own image.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

All in all, these are good comments, so I'll respond to multiple quotes.

Sooo...should we simply disregard Isa. 45:7?

Ah yes, Isaiah 45:7. That is a pretty good point, especially now.

Miss Kitty died today, and we buried her together. Well, first I buried her myself, because they were gone and I wasn't sure I could take her still body next to me for several hours. But then we dug her up, rewrapped her, and had a short ceremony.

God does seem to give us a mixed bag, but some events seem to be for coming together.

Reading through threads like these, with a lot of the "woe is me" sentiments (sentiments that are quite popular these days, I will grant anyone that), it makes me realize just how much easier it is to simply not believe. There is then no one to blame for your problems. Sure you may be able to blame yourself for a few (or more) of your own issues, but in the end, I don't ever wave my fist at the sky and say "How could you?!" Things that happen simply happen, and my entire focus is on how to deal with it and get back to good. My entire focus. In my opinion that is a much stronger place to be working from, rather than taking some moments to try and mentally/emotionally punish something that most likely isn't even there.

It's sort of like the equivalent of spiritual passive-aggressiveness. I feel that because we're being told from so many directions that we're supposed to "love" God, many are reticent to actually lash out directly at him, and so asking questions like "why me?" or lamenting the condition that "God put you in" serves as a stand-in. Passive-aggression. The really strange part being that you can't even know that the target of your frustrations is even there in the first place - to the point that even direct aggression is nonsensical.

I would take what you say with an extreme grain of salt, for several reasons.

1. While you may have a point about spiritual passive-aggression, I know this is not limited to people of faith. In fact, we've all met people who declared that they're cursed or have bad luck, and have the same sort of blaming others for problems. In fact, on some level many of those secular in fact blame religion or blame religious people for their problems.
2. As for "it is simpler not to believe", this may be true to people whose faith is entirely based around religious stories. But there's a sort of threshold, past which it is actually harder not to believe than it is to believe, since you've seen personally how your faith has made your life different.
   
3. At that point, it is actually simpler to say "I pissed off at you right now God" simply because you can find reasons to believe, which means either you have to go into denial about your own heart (not healthy) or you can't really do it. On the other hand, it is very easy to simply be angry.

Or much of what Trailblazer said. You can't really turn your beliefs on and off like a light switch. Not if your faith is any good, that is.

Could you define what you mean by 'God'?

Alright, I probably could.

God, strictly speaking, is existence. This means to say things like "I know the universe was created without God" is nonsense, because the statement reflects "I believe all that is (being) was created without Being." Being can be seen, heard, felt, etc. An old man in the sky cannot.

Well He is all good but as for His omniscience and omnipresence that's in this universe. But we have to ask why God put us here ... We can't blame all sin on God. God didn't make sin or death.

Satan was the ringleader so he receives no forgiveness. But we have a chance. That's why this life is so hard because we have to be tested.

Just pray for your cat and then believe God can heal it. Sometimes it's a test to see if you'll keep on believing against the odds. I know it might seem like something God wouldn't heal; but you can't limit God. It's no problem for God.

I'm not joking it worked for my cat who was very sick.

My cat was 19. She's been through at least two major surgeries and we prayed for her then. At this point, all we could do for her was to pray that she was comfy.

As for the last poster, Mr Easy (123) Bird, I think my answer is that like humans everywhere, it is human to have times of rage or despair. While it could mean I stay mad at God and just give up, I'm not really at that point yet. But it is a time where I'm definitely gonna call out God for throwing all this at me at once. It's kinda like, you're supposed to never pray "God, give me patience." Because the best way to learn patience is through heavy heavy amounts of misfortune.

 

[Trailblazer]

You see the problem. A depressed person typically is difficult to rouse from such a state, because the one thing borhering them infects all others. That is, they were actually sad then the cat got sick, etc, etc. Self-reinforcing. This is probably our last cat, they say, because she has been around 20 years. While I'm grumpy about all this, I just got in a fight with a RL best friend Kara on Discord, on account that she thinks I should put her down (her definition of mercy is not ours, and we've decided to let her rest and feel comfy as long as possible).

I have endogenous depression but I went through all kinds of counseling, 12 step programs and homeopathic treatment over 20 years ago, so I do not have the same level of depression I once had, which was suicidal. My depression has been cured by homeopathy for the most part, yet I will always have the propensity to depression and anxiety because it is genetic; my whole family had it.

Anyhow, I have been through cat losses more time than I care to mention, upwards of 30 times in the last 20 years. It is the worst thing I have had to endure in life because each one of them is precious to me, like a child would be to a person who has children. We have no children, I do not like children, probably why we have had and still have so many cats. I will not apologize for how I feel about children since I was an unwanted child. To people who would say "its just a cat" I would say "it's just a child" because there is really no difference as far as I am concerned. Our oldest cats lived to be 19 and they were with us at home till the end, but most of them did not live nearly that long. They were all Persians and Persians do not have life spans as long as other cats. Two of the 10 cats we have now have kidney disease but they are getting daily fluids and supplements and they are holding stable. It has now been a year and a half since our last cat passed on, the longest reprieve we have had in over 20 years, but I do not expect it to last forever. I am grateful for every day we have with them and I try not to think of the future.

What brought me back to God after being angry at God for about 10 years because of all the cat losses was a person who had posted something on a forum telling someone that when they became more spiritual the loss of a cat would not matter anymore. I just could not believe the audacity and arrogance to say such a thing to a grieving person! Obviously the person who said that was not spiritual and they were giving advice.

But that led me to a forum called Planet Baha'i and that was the beginning of my journey back to God and my religion. That was seven years ago this month. I am still struggling to love God but at least I do not hate God, not most of the time. I just see it for what it is, not as a fantasy that so many other believers see. God puts (some of) us through hell to get to heaven.. Why not just call it out? We cannot hurt God.

Most believers insist God is All-Loving because that is what they want God to be. This is psychological. I have an MA in Psychology so I know a few things. But if they actually read their scriptures they will see that God also has wrath, and of course that was demonstrated in the OT wasn't it? So I will settle for God being Loving, but not All-Loving. If I end up being wrong, hopefully God will forgive me for that. After all, everything we think about God is just a best approximation of a God that is completely unknowable.

 

[BSM1]

my understanding is that God needs humans ...

Why would God need anything. Again, this is just humans trying to define something they can't even comprehend.

 

[leov]

Why would God need anything. Again, this is just humans trying to define something they can't even comprehend.

why God wants anything?, why God wants people to have mercy? what is God's cut in that? why God does not like what Cain did? e.t.c.