Well you did say let's not bring Baha'i into the conversation, but what you offer about the Writings of Baha'u'llah is not supported by the Muslims that Baha'u'llah gave the Revelation to.
Sorry that was my bad.
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Well you did say let's not bring Baha'i into the conversation, but what you offer about the Writings of Baha'u'llah is not supported by the Muslims that Baha'u'llah gave the Revelation to.
If I may?
You are right. Eloquence is a particular study. It's called Ilme Balaga. It can only be analysed in Arabic. For example, take an old English poem that rhymes. And if it's a long poem the tone changes when needed. The voice changes when needed. When you translate it to lets say another language like Arabic, can we maintain the same writers style that you got in English? It's absolutely difficult. I don't know how you could do it really.
Eloquence in the Arabic poetry and writing style of the Qur'an is not what we will think of when someone says the word Eloquence. We tend to think too simplistically.
Nevertheless, you are right. English translations do not maintain the eloquence. A translator can try his levels best to try and "maintain" the eloquence, but that will turn into a weird poetic writeup, not a translation. I don't think it's possible.
Shakespeare has had some "hoax" writing attributed to him, and it takes experts who know history and other things to separate but some of them are on par or even greater then his writings and mimic his style, but they are not his.In your opinion of course.
In your opinion of course.
Shakespeare has had some "hoax" writing attributed to him, and it takes experts who know history and other things to separate but some of them are on par or even greater then his writings and mimic his style, but they are not his.
A lot, most even, is lost in translation. However, there are features of eloquence you can see even in translations.
Imru al Qais is considered the father of Arabic poetry,there are the the like of Francis Bacon and Marlowe who may even be the authors of the originals of some of Shakespeare’s work,some say al Quais made his into the Quran.
But they are polls apart.
The historical reports about this say some small snippet of his poetry appears exactly the same in the Quran. Anyways, anyone can make poetry, snip a piece of Quran, put in it, and claim historically Quran copied it, which is what I believe some enemies of Islam tried to do with this historical report.
Bro. I know some parts by heart. And I know what people say. It's stupid.
You know, I write a book today, and some parts in it are just like a book you wrote a year ago. E.g. You used the sentence "he walked dow the road", and I also used the same sentence "he walked down the road", does that mean one is a copy of another?
Fadhalla al azara yarthameenu bilahmihaa
washahmin kahuzzaabi adhdhamakshi al mafaththali
None of the Qur'anic features of Balagha are there in Al Kinds poem. None. I mean it Link. Let me say it again. "None".
No of course not. It's based on a lot of scholarship. Not just some "opinion" the way you are depicting an opinion to be.
In traditional Islam, an opinion is given only after more than half a decade of studying.
For a universal religion that has been sent down with a clear message that’s an awful long time,of course you have to learn Classical Arabic first,doesn’t sound too awesome to me.
For a universal religion that has been sent down with a clear message that’s an awful long time,of course you have to learn Classical Arabic first,doesn’t sound too awesome to me.
The historical reports about this say some small snippet of his poetry appears exactly the same in the Quran. Anyways, anyone can make poetry, snip a piece of Quran, put in it, and claim historically Quran copied it, which is what I believe some enemies of Islam tried to do with this historical report.
Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t Al Qais poetry before the Quran?.
Nah. That script is irrelevant to the topic you see?
By the way, have you ever read Imrul Qais?
Yes I have,English translation and not the worse I’ve ever read or best,.
There is more to Quran then it's eloquence. It has arguments for the true religion, from God to Prophets and Messengers, to other things about it, to it's prohibitions and laws.
I made a thread for example how Quran argues for the abstract religion to single out the instance of it (Currently) as the only true religion.
This in theory does not matter how eloquent or not eloquent the message is, if the arguments are sound, then the abstract religion proven through these proofs would have an instance in real time, and only one instance possible.
So there is more then one way to know it's true.
The lives of Ahlulbayt (a) and their justice and struggle against evil, is another way, to know Islam is true.
Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t Al Qais poetry before the Quran?.