Poll: The best argument against God, capital G.

[Koldo]

If you had to choose one, and only one, argument against the God of Abraham as described in the Bible ( both Hebrew and Christian ), what would it be?

Please vote in the poll. I tried to cover all the major objections, and I'm interested to know if I missed anything.

My vote? God doesn't listen. I think that's the single best argument against God.

• No evidence? It's not really an argument against.
• Harsh / evil actions in the bible? The NT and Christian theology explains most of that stuff.
• The bible is unrealistic / fake? It doesn't bother me.
• Suffering / Starvation / Disease / Pests / Pestilence? It's a really good argument, my 2nd choice.
• No intervention against tyrants and the worst of the worst criminals. This is my 3rd choice.

Thank you in advance for your response.

...God never listens ... to what I say... and you don't get a refund ... if you over-pray...

Spoiler: lyrics

Swinging on the lifeline
Fraying bits of twine
Entangled in the remnants of the
Knot I left behind
And asking you to help me make it
Finally unwind

But God never listens to what I say
God never listens to what I say
And you don't get a refund
If you overpray

And when the line is breaking
And when I'm near the end
When all the time spent leading
I've been following instead
When all my thoughts and memories are
Left hanging by a thread

God never listens...

Stranded on this slender string
The minutes seem to last a lifetime
Dangling here between the light above
And blue below that drags me down

But God never listens to what I say
God never listens to what I say
And you don't get a refund
If you overpray

I genuinely think that God not doing anything impactful against evil/suffering/tyrants is the weakest argument against the bible God.

Everyone is a sinner in Christianity. And sinners deserve to die. God made that clear with the flood. So, expect nothing more than crumbs on this life IF you get lucky. Likewise, in Islam, the reward for worshipping and obeying is to be gained in the hereafter.

In Judaism, if you are not a jew, God has almost nothing to do with you. And if you are, you know God's relationship with jews has never been a complete paradise (remember that God allowed slavery to happen to jews in Egypt, or so the story says).

 

[dybmh]

You are of course right, i should have capitalised the G though what i see as evidence against applies to any omni god

Evidence... Just a few
Futility of prayer.
E=MC2.
Childhood leukemia
The anophele mosquito

Most respectfully, it sounds like one of those 4 options, is closer to what I was wanting to survey from RF members.

 

[HonestJoe]

If you had to choose one, and only one, argument against the God of Abraham as described in the Bible ( both Hebrew and Christian ), what would it be?

I generally wouldn't because, if I was forced to choose, I'd have to go with the fact that there is no definitive, clear and internally consistent hypothesis for such a god in the first place.

 

[DNB]

If you had to choose one, and only one, argument against the God of Abraham as described in the Bible ( both Hebrew and Christian ), what would it be?

Please vote in the poll. I tried to cover all the major objections, and I'm interested to know if I missed anything.

My vote? God doesn't listen. I think that's the single best argument against God.

• No evidence? It's not really an argument against.
• Harsh / evil actions in the bible? The NT and Christian theology explains most of that stuff.
• The bible is unrealistic / fake? It doesn't bother me.
• Suffering / Starvation / Disease / Pests / Pestilence? It's a really good argument, my 2nd choice.
• No intervention against tyrants and the worst of the worst criminals. This is my 3rd choice.

Thank you in advance for your response.

...God never listens ... to what I say... and you don't get a refund ... if you over-pray...

Spoiler: lyrics

Swinging on the lifeline
Fraying bits of twine
Entangled in the remnants of the
Knot I left behind
And asking you to help me make it
Finally unwind

But God never listens to what I say
God never listens to what I say
And you don't get a refund
If you overpray

And when the line is breaking
And when I'm near the end
When all the time spent leading
I've been following instead
When all my thoughts and memories are
Left hanging by a thread

God never listens...

Stranded on this slender string
The minutes seem to last a lifetime
Dangling here between the light above
And blue below that drags me down

But God never listens to what I say
God never listens to what I say
And you don't get a refund
If you overpray

That evil, suffering and injustices persist in the world. But, I'm answering more from a detractor's position, as I believe that is the intent of your OP.
I can somewhat reconcile these disturbances in my mind so that they are not deal-breakers, and one ground would be that what God has in store for the persistent, will far outweigh any suffering that took place on earth, and far outweigh any merit or entitlement on man's part.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If you had to choose one, and only one, argument against the God of Abraham as described in the Bible ( both Hebrew and Christian ), what would it be?

Please vote in the poll. I tried to cover all the major objections, and I'm interested to know if I missed anything.

My vote? God doesn't listen. I think that's the single best argument against God.

• No evidence? It's not really an argument against.
• Harsh / evil actions in the bible? The NT and Christian theology explains most of that stuff.
• The bible is unrealistic / fake? It doesn't bother me.
• Suffering / Starvation / Disease / Pests / Pestilence? It's a really good argument, my 2nd choice.
• No intervention against tyrants and the worst of the worst criminals. This is my 3rd choice.

Thank you in advance for your response.

...God never listens ... to what I say... and you don't get a refund ... if you over-pray...

Spoiler: lyrics

Swinging on the lifeline
Fraying bits of twine
Entangled in the remnants of the
Knot I left behind
And asking you to help me make it
Finally unwind

But God never listens to what I say
God never listens to what I say
And you don't get a refund
If you overpray

And when the line is breaking
And when I'm near the end
When all the time spent leading
I've been following instead
When all my thoughts and memories are
Left hanging by a thread

God never listens...

Stranded on this slender string
The minutes seem to last a lifetime
Dangling here between the light above
And blue below that drags me down

But God never listens to what I say
God never listens to what I say
And you don't get a refund
If you overpray

I voted for "no evidence", although I don't consider it an argument "against" god.
Instead, I just consider it a good reason not to accept the claim that a god exists.

I don't consider things like suffering etc an argument "against" god. At best, perhaps it's an argument against a just or a moral god.
But I have always said that in principle, I don't see why a god (a creator) would have to be just or moral.
Why couldn't a creator god by a masochistic sob?

I don't see much use in trying to make arguments "against" a god, since gods are always defined as unfalsifiable entities (at least, that's how they are always presented to me).

Trying to make an argument against an unfalsifiable entity, seems like an exercise in futility.


More generally though, I'm of the opinion that there's a good argument to be made for the idea that "inventing gods" is just what humans do.
But that also, doesn't qualify as an argument against any god existing. At best, it makes all god beliefs extremely unlikely to be true and extremely likely to be made up.

 

[Fool]

only in the illusion, the ignorance, of duality can there exist otherness

That which is infinite cannot be many, for many-ness is a finite concept. To have infinity you must identify or define that infinity as unity; otherwise, the term does not have any referent or meaning. In an Infinite Creator there is only unity. You have seen simple examples of unity. You have seen the prism which shows all colors stemming from the sunlight. This is a simplistic example of unity.

isaiah 45:5

Isaiah 45:5

I am GOD and there is none else;Beside Me, there is no god.I engird you, though you have not known...

www.sefaria.org

 

[viole]

If you had to choose one, and only one, argument against the God of Abraham as described in the Bible ( both Hebrew and Christian ), what would it be?

Please vote in the poll. I tried to cover all the major objections, and I'm interested to know if I missed anything.

My vote? God doesn't listen. I think that's the single best argument against God.

• No evidence? It's not really an argument against.
• Harsh / evil actions in the bible? The NT and Christian theology explains most of that stuff.
• The bible is unrealistic / fake? It doesn't bother me.
• Suffering / Starvation / Disease / Pests / Pestilence? It's a really good argument, my 2nd choice.
• No intervention against tyrants and the worst of the worst criminals. This is my 3rd choice.

Thank you in advance for your response.

...God never listens ... to what I say... and you don't get a refund ... if you over-pray...

Spoiler: lyrics

Swinging on the lifeline
Fraying bits of twine
Entangled in the remnants of the
Knot I left behind
And asking you to help me make it
Finally unwind

But God never listens to what I say
God never listens to what I say
And you don't get a refund
If you overpray

And when the line is breaking
And when I'm near the end
When all the time spent leading
I've been following instead
When all my thoughts and memories are
Left hanging by a thread

God never listens...

Stranded on this slender string
The minutes seem to last a lifetime
Dangling here between the light above
And blue below that drags me down

But God never listens to what I say
God never listens to what I say
And you don't get a refund
If you overpray

A lot of nonsense in the very first pages of the report describing what He was supposed to have created.

Ciao

- viole

 

[dybmh]

A lot of nonsense in the very first pages of the report describing what He was supposed to have created.

Ciao

- viole

Please vote, if you haven't already?

Thank you!

 

[dybmh]

only in the illusion, the ignorance, of duality can there exist otherness

That which is infinite cannot be many, for many-ness is a finite concept. To have infinity you must identify or define that infinity as unity; otherwise, the term does not have any referent or meaning. In an Infinite Creator there is only unity. You have seen simple examples of unity. You have seen the prism which shows all colors stemming from the sunlight. This is a simplistic example of unity.

isaiah 45:5

Isaiah 45:5

I am GOD and there is none else;Beside Me, there is no god.I engird you, though you have not known...

www.sefaria.org

Thank you for the reply. I sincerely hope all is well for you and yours.

And I'll mention, that it tickles that you voted "other" because there is no other.

 

[Ostronomos]

You are welcome



Yes, power is energy expended over time



Sorry to hear that.

Omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence are not infinite energy, they are infinite power over the supernatural. And are not physical in nature as one would ascribe to energy.

 

[ChristineM]

Omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence are not infinite energy, they are infinite power over the supernatural. And are not physical in nature as one would ascribe to energy.

How long did it take for you to think that up?

Power is energy expended over time.

But feel free to redefine whatever so it fits your dream.

 

[Yazata]

For me, a great deal depends on how we define 'God'.

Is God the ultimate source, ground and principle of reality?

Or is God a personified deity as depicted in the Bible, Quran or the more theistic Indian scriptures?

I don't know of any plausible argument against the first of those.

But I find it very difficult to believe that the ultimate principle of reality itself would resemble the deities depicted in the scriptures. I don't imagine the ultimate Source of being as a person (seemingly modeled on ourselves) or being concerned with small details of human morality and ethnic identity. My concept of the divine is more like the ineffable Neoplatonic One, I guess.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

You know, even though I use the terms reality and God synonymously, I pretty much always use the term God with a capital G. Sometimes I even capitalize Reality too, and, The Omniverse, Entropy and Extropy. These are important concepts to me.

But I know what God you are referring to. The Biblical God, whose existence predates creation and The Omniverse, is never in this creation despite contradictions of the Holy Spirit, and apparently did a lot of bad things to people to test their faith. And according to current Jewish doctrine, Jesus may have been a good Jew, but not God incarnate. There is good evidence for Jesus existing, but no evidence that Yahweh, Elohim or Adonai ever really existed, unless you believe God actually did really bad things to people in the name of Judaism and the state of Israel.

So I'll mark my answer down with "no evidence". However, there is more than enough evidence to me that reality actually exists. I will attempt to separate the terms reality and God in a different thread but I have a good idea of why those two terms, whilst being similar are not identical to each other. But that is a topic of a later discussion, probably on Interfaith so there's no debating on my findings. Needless to say, and I'll put it short: God is reality + a reason for existing, which I will start to label as active divinity, which by itself is a natural phenomenon, yet, more specific than reality as a whole construct.

But God and divinity in general are completely real and tangible things that I experience every day. The God of the Bible simply isn't that.

 

[F1fan]

But God and divinity in general are completely real and tangible things that I experience every day. The God of the Bible simply isn't that.

What material form is your God that allows you to experience it?

 

[Fool]

Thank you for the reply. I sincerely hope all is well for you and yours.

And I'll mention, that it tickles that you voted "other" because there is no other.

oh the paradox.

 

[Ostronomos]

How long did it take for you to think that up?

Power is energy expended over time.

But feel free to redefine whatever so it fits your dream.

Okay fine. Infinite energy.

And you redefine words and equations as you see fit all the time.

Especially E=MC^2. As if that is an argument against the infinite and eternal source of the One.

 

[ChristineM]

Okay fine. Infinite energy.

And you redefine words and equations as you see fit all the time.

Especially E=MC^2. As if that is an argument against the infinite and eternal source of the One.

I do not make the claim of omnipotence, nor the definition. I simply followed it's logical steps using the mass energy equivalence formula. If either mass or energy is infinite the the other cannot exist.

I am sure with your profound understanding of science you would understand that.

Please be so good as to show me any case there i have redifined a word as anything different than shown in the OED. As for equations, i do not know enough about maths to attempt to redefine one... But feel free to use that bit of nonsense if it makes you feel better

 

[Ponder This]

Against its existence as described in the bible.

The best argument would be to discredit the Bible somehow, argue that the Bible's been rewritten or that the testimonies are subjective, for example.

 

[Zwing]

Power is energy expended over time.

To be fair, this is only one possible sense of the word power, which has a wide semantic field. This is the mechanical sense, used in Physics classes. Power can also mean potency/potential, or alternatively social influence, or…

 

[Left Coast]

E=MC2.

This is a new take to me; how is this evidence against God?