Poor People's Campaign Readies Nationwide Mobilization

[Nakosis]

I think that is great that you have had that experience. You should be aware that others are not all like you and have different circumstances. But please tell me you hear how patronizing it is to say "the reason you are suffering is because you don't believe strong enough." And, "the reason you failed at that task was because you did believe you would succeed at that task." Can you at least hear it?

Why would I say that to someone else? Didn't I say this is not something you can judge in others.

 

[Curious George]

Blacks don't hold down jobs the same way whites don't like policemen. Blacks in the ghettos where I come from are lazy, rude and incapable of keeping anything worthwhile to enjoy. Any race that gets social support from a vague body like federal government is set for failure. And race is the issue nobody talks about. There is no systematic racism and its dead and in the dust. Nobody had given any proof in decades of this and I'm still waiting while I laugh my way to the bank and inform my white bankers how black I am.

Anybody who thinks they are helping us blacks with this its out of their minds.

Well I can not believe you are sounding off with this racist diatribe. It also sounds like you have been watching too many Ben Shapiro youtube videos.

I grew up in poor urban communities as well. There are plenty of black people who have jobs. I can only guess that you counted the misses and ignored the hits. Perhaps you should observe better next time you visit your old neighborhood.

While I agree that much of the systemic racism has been obliterated, plenty still exists. It might be an interesting study for you to ask some older successful black men and women what obstacles they faced in achieving that success. Then ask a group of successful older white people about the obstacles they faced. See if that helps you locate any systemic barriers.

That the world is not as racist as some would claim does not mean it is not racist.

 

[BSM1]

I think that is great that you have had that experience. You should be aware that others are not all like you and have different circumstances. But please tell me you hear how patronizing it is to say "the reason you are suffering is because you don't believe strong enough." And, "the reason you failed at that task was because you did believe you would succeed at that task." Can you at least hear it?

The only time you fail is when you quit. Granted, there are absolutely zero guarantees in this life save one: if you don't try you definitely will not win.

 

[Curious George]

Why would I say that to someone else? Didn't I say this is not something you can judge in others.

Lol, our whole back and forth began with me implying that this is not how it is for others and you implying that it was.

 

[BSM1]

Well I can not believe you are sounding off with this racist diatribe. It also sounds like you have been watching too many Ben Shapiro youtube videos.

I grew up in poor urban communities as well. There are plenty of black people who have jobs. I can only guess that you counted the misses and ignored the hits. Perhaps you should observe better next time you visit your old neighborhood.

While I agree that much of the systemic racism has been obliterated, plenty still exists. It might be an interesting study for you to ask some older successful black men and women what obstacles they faced in achieving that success. Then ask a group of successful older white people about the obstacles they faced. See if that helps you locate any systemic barriers.

That the world is not as racist as some would claim does not mean it is not racist.

Did you missed the fact that the poster was black? Also, could you describe a few of those systemic racial barriers that you have run across?

 

[Curious George]

The only time you fail is when you quit. Granted, there are absolutely zero guarantees in this life save one: if you don't try you definitely will not win.

Interesting thoughts concerning game theory: sometimes the best action is inaction .

 

[Curious George]

Did you missed the fact that the poster was black? Also, could you describe a few of those systemic racial barriers that you have run across?

Nope, I did not miss that. I am well aware.

 

[Nakosis]

Lol, our whole back and forth began with me implying that this is not how it is for others and you implying that it was.

No, I was asking how it was for you. I was trying to think of a time for myself this wasn't the case. Thought someone else might have an personal example to disprove the idea.

 

[BSM1]

Interesting thoughts concerning game theory: sometimes the best action is inaction .

I have done that in situations that called for it, but that's not giving up. I hope you know the difference.

 

[BSM1]

Nope, I did not miss that. I am well aware.

Now about those barriers...

 

[Curious George]

I have done that in situations that called for it, but that's not giving up. I hope you know the difference.

Just figured you would want another cliche to add to your repertoire.

 

[Curious George]

Now about those barriers...

Would you like to start a new thread, or shall I discuss institutional prejudice as it impacts the poor?

 

[BSM1]

Would you like to start a new thread, or shall I discuss institutional prejudice as it impacts the poor?

Go for it.

 

[BSM1]

Just figured you would want another cliche to add to your repertoire.

One man's cliche could be another man's Saturday night...

 

[Mister Emu]

It is precisely what I wrote without the first if then statement from which it derives.

You invented that first if/then statement wholesale, the rest only derives from that point in your imagination. Attacking that statement is representative of the strawman fallacy, because no one has presented it as their stance, and you cannot point out a single instance of someone using that reasoning in this thread. Do you see what I did there? I pointed out that something is an informal logical fallacy and explained the reasoning behind it.

No it is just a straight-up non sequitur the way you wrote it. Fallacious simply because the conclusion does not flow from the premises.

It is a non-sequitur to say that if you have similar opportunities you have the capacity for similar achievements? Are you really arguing that?

Yes you do

Have to agree to disagree. I acknowledge that your position isn't necessarily unreasonable, even if I don't hold it myself.

If you look a bit past the surface, there are competing theories of fallacy, disagreements on what makes a fallacy and why, and even some on whether or not certain arguments are fallacies.

Oh it isn't moot, hopefully you can now see where it was flawed.

It would be moot, because if people would explain why they think something is fallacious, then I wouldn't have to ask. No one has yet explained why the original statement is necessarily a member of the "Dramatic Instance" fallacy.

 

[Koldo]

Principle #15
I will not start a family before I can afford to. I will be frugal,
saving my money, & making wise purchases. I will consider
the consequences of my actions before implementing them.
I will avoid dependence upon others to the extent I am able.

That one is a tough nut to crack given that the person(s) involved have already made monumentally bad life choices. Education cannot hurt even in cases like this. The 12 points listed in the OP would certainly do little, if anything, to lessen their plight.

Sure, but it might happen as an accident. Should an accident screw someone over for their entire lives ?

 

[YmirGF]

Sure, but it might happen as an accident. Should an accident screw someone over for their entire lives ?

Absolutely not. Look, all of us have had our hard times, our own personal disasters, etc... but, for the most part, we pick ourselves up and carry on. We LEARN from our failures on our way to success.

 

[Koldo]

Dave Ramsey recently completed a survey of 10,000 millionaires. He found that 94% were 1st generation millionaires, meaning they EARNED their own money. Only 6% of the millionaires surveyed inherited their wealth.

Do you have any extra data on that ?
For instance, what sort of education did their parents have ?
How much money did they get from their parents or spouse ?

Data like that, you know. Stuff that can easily influence the outcome that has nothing to do with what they have done themselves.

 

[Koldo]

Absolutely not. Look, all of us have had our hard times, our own personal disasters, etc... but, for the most part, we pick ourselves up and carry on. We LEARN from our failures on our way to success.

Sure. But sometimes you might be in a position where you can't pick yourself up. What then ? Should you be left to your own demise ? I can relate if you answer 'yes' when the person is question has done clearly stupid things, but not really if your answer is an absolute 'yes'.

Joe might have had sex with his one and only girlfriend Jane wearing a condom, but still got her pregnant. They didn't do anything wrong nor stupid per se, but they might be in a very difficult economic situation as of of now and not able to lift themselves up. Shouldn't they be helped ?

 

[YmirGF]

Sure. But sometimes you might be in a position where you can't pick yourself up. What then ? Should you be left to your own demise ? I can relate if you answer 'yes' when the person is question has done clearly stupid things, but not really if your answer is an absolute 'yes'.

Yes, sometimes we need to pull back and let people make mistakes. However, when they become a danger to themselves and to those around them we have a social imperative to intervene. There are a number of ways this intervention can occur.

Joe might have had sex with his one and only girlfriend Jane wearing a condom, but still got her pregnant. They didn't do anything wrong nor stupid per se, but they might be in a very difficult economic situation as of of now and not able to lift themselves up. Shouldn't they be helped ?

There are multiple solutions to this, including an abortion. The huge problem here is that in FAR too many cases, Joe goes on to have other partners, leaving Jane high and dry with a baby born out of wedlock swelling the ranks of single parent families. Yes, we should help Jane and possibly including sex education training. Joe, if he continues his fleeing drone habits, should be arrested for reckless endangerment for all he has put his partners through. If Joe and Jane stick together we should help them as a couple with sex education training thrown in for good measure.