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I think we are losing sight of the issue:
Francis basically called gay men "******s"
If he called me a "******" to my face I may very well punch the old man out
And him using such language may incite homophobic attacks, both verbal and possibly even physical
And if someone does get offended? The Pope made reference to Alberto Gasbarri, a man who organizes papal trips and was then standing next to him on the plane.
“If Dr. Gasbarri, a great friend, says a swear word against my mother, then a punch awaits him,” Francis said. “It’s normal, it’s normal. One cannot provoke, one cannot insult other people’s faith, one cannot make fun of faith.”
While making this comment, Vatican Radio reported that the pontiff “gestured with a pretend punch” directed at Gasbarri – an action many journalists interpreted as a joke.
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Are you trying to prevent LGBTQ people from living in peace? Are you trying to deny same-sex couples legal marriage rights? Are you trying to exclude gay men from an organization you lead or belong to?
The Catholic Church is doing all of these things.
In case you somehow aren't aware, Catholic seminaries are male only. This is what Francis was talking about.
He was referring to barring gay men specifically.I am aware of that. And also aware that the end goal is to form priests. Thus leading back to what I stated.
Generally, I reserve terms like "homophobe" for those who try to hurt or exclude others based on their views.
I don't call people names if all they do is personally disagree with something as long as they don't do anything to interfere with other people's lives.
Which ones do you think are misapplied?
Are you trying to prevent LGBTQ people from living in peace? Are you trying to deny same-sex couples legal marriage rights? Are you trying to exclude gay men from an organization you lead or belong to?
The Catholic Church is doing all of these things.
I disagree that these things are 'homophobic'. That's my issue.The Catholic Church is doing all of these things.
It seems like hair-splitting to me to argue that harmful acts consistent with hatred might not qualify as actual hatred because the perpetrators might have other motivations for the harm they cause.I disagree that these things are 'homophobic'. That's my issue.
I don't believe they are being done out of hate, malice, or otherwise, as you yourself have pointed out with the reasoning behind this.
I think the word needs to be dropped wholesale as meaningless.
I disagree that these things are 'homophobic'. That's my issue.
I don't believe they are being done out of hate, malice, or otherwise, as you yourself have pointed out with the reasoning behind this.
I think the word needs to be dropped wholesale as meaningless.
It seems like hair-splitting to me to argue that harmful acts consistent with hatred might not qualify as actual hatred because the perpetrators might have other motivations for the harm they cause.
I disagree they are harmful.It seems like hair-splitting to me to argue that harmful acts consistent with hatred might not qualify as actual hatred because the perpetrators might have other motivations for the harm they cause.
I disagree they are harmful.
And the Pope has issued an apology for having made that honest translation. I think we should all be satisfied, forgive and move on.For those who didn't bother reading the article:
Some suggested the comments were an honest translation mistake for the Pope, for whom Italian is a second language, and that he 'did not know' how offensive the word was.
I disagree they are harmful.
Sure, but I'm confused as to why they'd be anti these things. The RCC has a very strong theology against suicide and I don't know anyone who is happy with bullying. What is the context of this, because I find this very weird.The rights of marriage often matter most in times of crisis. Denying legal marriage to same-sex couples often amounts to kicking people when they're down.
In terms of LGBTQ issues generally, we've had Catholic school boards here object to anti-suicide and anti-bullying programs on religious grounds. Hopefully you can at least agree that suicide and bullying are harmful... can't you?
Sure, but I'm confused as to why they'd be anti these things. The RCC has a very strong theology against suicide and I don't know anyone who is happy with bullying. What is the context of this, because I find this very weird.
Marriage is not a right, it is a privilege. It's also denied to close kin, minors, and divorcees in some instances.
Marriage is denied sometimes cross-religiously too.
Homosexuals aren't the only affected class, so I find this a rather arbitrary argument.
What isn't a homophobic slur if it shows dissention or disagreement with that lifestyle?The pope made an horrendous homophobic slur
Vatican remains silent over Pope's alleged homophonic comments
The Pope (pictured today at a World Children's Day event in Rome) has not broken his silence after reports claimed he denounced the 'air of f*****ry' in the churchwww.dailymail.co.uk
I'm not angry I'm disappointed
It sends out the wrong message, that such language is acceptable
He should have known better
Shame on him!
Homosexuality is not a "lifestyle" optionlifestyle?
I'm talking about the RCC and their marriage rules, which is the focus of the thread.A lot of the material focuses on tolerance for LGBTQ kids and building up their self-worth.
Who's denying marriage to divorcees (besides the Catholic Church)?
The issues around close kin and minors general relate to consent: entering a marriage requires full, informed consent. A child is legally incapable of this kind of consent. With close family members, at best the presence of undue influence compromises the ability for full consent and at worst, the relationship can be the result of grooming and abuse.
... which is BS, IMO.
I'm talking about secular marriage, which should be beyond the jurisdiction of any religious body.
So you're okay with hurting same-sex couples on the grounds that other people get hurt, too?
It's been established it was likely a mistake/translation error.I think we are losing sight of the issue:
Francis basically called gay men "******s"
If he called me a "******" to my face I may very well punch the old man out
And him using such language may incite homophobic attacks, both verbal and possibly even physical