Pope states condoms aren't the answer to HIV

[emiliano]

The promotion of abstinence as the only remedy for AIDs and the spread of disease us unrealistic. When are you and your likeminded fellows in the Vatican going to join the 21st century?

I am not very fond of the 21st century, I can live on it because I have hope of a better afterlife and that is what is important to me, abstinence and chastity is not a remedy, but sure way to stop the spread of STDs

 

[tumbleweed41]

I am not very fond of the 21st century, I can live on it because I have hope of a better afterlife and that is what is important to me, abstinence and chastity is not a remedy, but sure way to stop the spread of STDs

Utopian ideals do not reflect the real world.

 

[Alceste]

Alceste.The pope is either malicious and hateful and actually wants to spread disease, suffering and death among people he perceives as;, or he's quite mad and just gibbering whatever nonsense passes through his mind.And what did he said that could do this to anybody? It is simple really the message is “Christian, do not get involved in the free handing out of condoms, they are not as effective as the development of virtues and work harder in the preaching of abstinence that is more effective” I find the whole thing repulsive in the extreme. Emiliano, Oh God another one! I find what brought this on humanity extremely repulsive, and it was lack of self-control and the marketing of sex. you read a lot into the phrase "condoms make the problem worse" than the evidence does not support. The problem is that this is a message addressed to Christians and you are not one, so this is out of your league, I am sure that there is enough of you, the condoms giver to execute the campaign, but will have to be your little programme, the Church will have a campaign for virtues.When the pope says this, while his minions spread rumours that condoms are basically "nets" that are permeable not only to AIDS, but sperm too, and the Vatican does nothing to deter this deception, and when they basically give the World Health Organisation the finger when they call to say "Guys! Please! Stop doing that! You're wrong about condoms!" there is ample evidence to reasonably conclude that the pope supports the RCC policy of lying about the effectiveness of condoms to trick people into not using them. And the consequences are suffering and death. What he is doing, and what his bishops in Africa are doing is evil.Yes politic and conspiracies theories are not the exclusive property of the West, there are some that says that this started with an experiment on biological warfare, Africans are suspicious of any attempt to reduced their population, they perceive this as a dangerous situation, in the West we worry that because there are so many of them, we can never send enough money to help them and would like to see controlling their population growth, and we are willing to give them free condoms so that they don‘t reproduce. You say handing out condoms has not been effective, well of course it hasn't. As Dallas pointed out, if the pope is whispering in your ear that they actually make sex more dangerous, (in addition to making it less pleasurable, although the pope wouldn't know, presumably) why would you bother to use them?How I hate ambivalence, the Pope said that abstinence is more effective and you seems to agreed that the free condoms campaign ( well of course it hasn't), then you get on to tell untruth.The evil is in the lie. The false witness. If the church just said "DON'T USE CONDOMS" the same way they say "DON'T HAVE SEX", I'd have no problem with it at all. You are special, the massage is in relation to the spread of AIDS and the message is if you are infected abstain, but you don‘t get it.But, see, I know, and the pope knows, and all the RCC leaders know, that if they did it this way, they would be ignored, just as they are with preaching abstinence.Again, folks here are telling that the Pope kills people by preaching abstinence, so they disagree with you, Christians do listen to theologians. Thus the RCC's clear and consistent policy of intentionally, knowingly lying about the effectiveness of condoms as a strategy to prevent people from using them. But, didn’t you say that they have been ineffective yourself?It's sick and wrong, and while I don't believe in any of this afterlife mumbo jumbo, I wish these people could be the exception and one day stand before their God to be judged. That way at least there would be some justice in the end for all the suffering they've caused.Yes, when it comes to spiritual issues you don’t have a clue.

Emiliano, can you try that again with quotes? Makes my brain hurt trying to figure out what you're talking about. BTW, I totally agree with half of the above.

 

[god666]

Ignorance is dangerous.

How many people's death will the pope's ignorance cause?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Ignorance is dangerous.

How many people's death will the pope's ignorance cause?

To be fair, their ignorance has something to do with it as well.

 

[linwood]

To be fair, their ignorance has something to do with it as well.

It has everything to do with it and that`s the point.

Instead of educating, the Pope seems to be trying to deepen and solidify the ignorance.

 

[Father Heathen]

I am not very fond of the 21st century

We've surmised that quite a while ago.

 

[Quiddity]

This topic always has the tendency of having people make it condom vs. no condom or condom vs. getting aids. That’s how they start there premise and see it as complete lunacy that anyone could advocate otherwise.

Its one thing to disagree with the Catholic Church or simply not like the organization; but to think they have intentions of spreading aids is just ludicrous.

 

[logician]

One does wonder why someone would be a member of an organization whose official stances are either irrelevant, or quite harmful to society in general.

 

[Quiddity]

One does wonder why someone would be a member of an organization whose official stances are either irrelevant, or quite harmful to society in general.

They give out free tupperware and klondike bars...

Far be it for us to actually think these things through...we are just too tribal for such things....

 

[Panda]

Its one thing to disagree with the Catholic Church or simply not like the organization; but to think they have intentions of spreading aids is just ludicrous.

I don't they the Pope is intentionally trying to do this. He is just so out of touch with the real world and it's problems I don't think he has any real understanding of the issue.

 

[Quiddity]

I don't they the Pope is intentionally trying to do this. He is just so out of touch with the real world and it's problems I don't think he has any real understanding of the issue.

Ever read Human vitae?

Read it some day and you tell me if he is out of touch.
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

Unless of course by "out of touch" you mean he isn't agreeing with you and millions of others. As far as comprehension goes, the man gets it. Which is both awesome for catholics and scary for those who object.

 

[Alceste]

This topic always has the tendency of having people make it condom vs. no condom or condom vs. getting aids. That’s how they start there premise and see it as complete lunacy that anyone could advocate otherwise.

Its one thing to disagree with the Catholic Church or simply not like the organization; but to think they have intentions of spreading aids is just ludicrous.

OK, Victor, what do you think is the intention of Catholic church leaders who knowingly lie about the effectiveness of condoms in preventing the spread of HIV (and remember, some of them are even saying condoms are LACED with HIV)?

It's as if Africa were in the grip of an outbreak of typhoid, and the pope was making headlines saying "DON'T boil your water! That only makes it worse!" and for some unfathomable reason his followers are defending him. I don't care if the secret reason he's saying clean water spreads typhoid even faster is because he doesn't want people to drink any water at all, because he thinks it's "sinful". Whatever it is he wants or doesn't want people to do, his strategy is lying, and people are suffering and dying by the tens of thousands because of his lies.

 

[logician]

Any defense of the pope in regards to this issue does seem quite out of place.

 

[Alceste]

Ever read Human vitae?

Read it some day and you tell me if he is out of touch.
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html
.

HE'S THE POPE! He has the power to interpret these stupid birth control rules, especially when the stupid B/C rules are CAUSING MORE DEATHS THAN NEW LIVES. TWENTY-SIX PERCENT of sexually active adults in Swaziland are infected with HIV. The cat is out of the bag - abstinence until marriage will not work in a population where one in four adults are infected and hundreds of thousands of children are born with the virus. Swaziland's strategy? Abstinence education / free condoms left lying around / religious leaders saying condoms are "un-Swazi". Link.

Yes, he's out of touch.

 

[linwood]

They give out free tupperware and klondike bars..

That`s a lie.

If they gave out Klondike bars I would have made it to my confirmation.

 

[Quiddity]

OK, Victor, what do you think is the intention of Catholic church leaders who knowingly lie about the effectiveness of condoms in preventing the spread of HIV (and remember, some of them are even saying condoms are LACED with HIV)?

Assuming "church leaders" (and I'm not even going to challenge you on this because I go chasing rabbit trails so often when I ask for sources) said such a thing, I would respectfully disagree that they were ineffective and that they were purposely LACED with HIV.

However, it doesn't necessarily follow that they wish for them to get AIDS or that there arguments don't hold any water. Even Hitler can make good points from time to time even if he was a racist.

It's as if Africa were in the grip of an outbreak of typhoid, and the pope was making headlines saying "DON'T boil your water! That only makes it worse!" and for some unfathomable reason his followers are defending him. I don't care if the secret reason he's saying clean water spreads typhoid even faster is because he doesn't want people to drink any water at all, because he thinks it's "sinful". Whatever it is he wants or doesn't want people to do, his strategy is lying, and people are suffering and dying by the tens of thousands because of his lies.

First off, as I said above, I have no interest in chasing rabbit trails as I find them unproductive and is irrelevant to my beliefs really. Popes and Bishops in general can and have said dumb things before, nothing new.

 

[Quiddity]

HE'S THE POPE! He has the power to interpret these stupid birth control rules, especially when the stupid B/C rules are CAUSING MORE DEATHS THAN NEW LIVES. TWENTY-SIX PERCENT of sexually active adults in Swaziland are infected with HIV. The cat is out of the bag - abstinence until marriage will not work in a population where one in four adults are infected and hundreds of thousands of children are born with the virus. Swaziland's strategy? Abstinence education / free condoms left lying around / religious leaders saying condoms are "un-Swazi". Link.

Yes, he's out of touch.

It's obvious we don't see it the same. The government of Botswana passed out condoms like candy and AIDS spread. Did anyone blame the UN and other organizations of causing deaths?...of course not! So what did the government do? They started to educate people along with giving them condoms and that did improve the situation.

So really, this is an argument of how we should educate people about sexuality, not about who is causing deaths.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Ever read Human vitae?

Read it some day and you tell me if he is out of touch.
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

Unless of course by "out of touch" you mean he isn't agreeing with you and millions of others. As far as comprehension goes, the man gets it. Which is both awesome for catholics and scary for those who object.

This Pope didn't write Humanae Vitae. But in any case, it's based on some pretty specious logic: its main argument is apparently based on the inference of God's intent from the form of humans, and then exercises special pleading by not applying the argument to other aspects of life where it would be just as applicable.

 

[logician]

So are Catholics educating people about the use of condoms?