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Praising Putin.

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
As I noted in message #238, Putin is the natural defense against the belief that human nature has rid itself of the things that caused war in the past. That's why he's to be praised. He's waking up a woke generation.
That's nonsense. Anybody who praises "a devil" is a fool.
The only reason Putin is fighting a war, is because he can.
Power corrupts .. it causes the devil to make you think you are whiter than white, when the converse is true.
I am not in agreement with political, military force whether right or left.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
So because Putin is against homosexuality it gives him a pass on all the blood on his hand from the dead civilians in an unprovoked war not only in the Ukraine but else where also - he has a licence to kill because he's anti homosexual with no accountability to God for anything else he does all that matters is he's anti homosexual.

I didn't know it worked that way in religion.

Only in some people's religion. As you can see in this thread, religious folks are pushing back against that perspective.
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
The word "peace", as found in the NT, is cited 99 times, many of them spoken by Jesus, and you can see them all here

One of the very first I come to is Matthew 10:34:

Think not that I am come to send peace on the earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.​



John
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
The aha moment for understanding Putin's actions in Ukraine is found in Romans chapter one.
Well, I've read that chapter many times, so where supposedly is the conduct of an offensive war justified under the Gospel standards found there?

As I interpret Roman's chapter one, Paul is opposed to the natural thinking of the natural mind that believes mankind is godlike and can thus live in peace and do away with ancient ideas like God, morality, war and peace, and just live in millennial serenity with all our good brothers and sisters.

Western Democracy has Woke up to the very kind of thinking Paul said would bring fire from heaven. And I believe it will. . . Unless Putin wakes up the Woke West real fast.

Reading the responses to this thread isn't encouraging. I've been stocking up on Reynold's Wrap not just to manufacture my tin cap but to make my dwelling radiation proof. :D




John
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
So because Putin is against homosexuality it gives him a pass on all the blood on his hand from the dead civilians in an unprovoked war not only in the Ukraine but else where also - he has a licence to kill because he's anti homosexual with no accountability to God for anything else he does all that matters is he's anti homosexual.

I didn't know it worked that way in religion.

In message number 238, I noted that at times our body naturally wars against itself. If a disease is found in the cells of the body, our body attacks the disease sometimes leading even to the destruction and loss of a limb. If the disease can't be destroyed, then the body will sometimes euthanize itself rather than allow the disease to create a slower and more painful death.

The Woke ideas found throughout the West are a death-sentence for the West. The Woke ideas in the West threaten not just the West, but the whole of humanity.

Putin is the human race fighting back against the humanism, the rejection of man's corrupt nature, that can destroy humanity as a whole. In this sense, like the puss and infection found in the body, Putin is fighting the good fight no matter if it stinks, and is ugly and painful.

Jesus, the great Jewish sages, and St. Paul, in Romans chapter one, taught that the single most dangerous canary in the coal mine so far as mankind acquiring a Woke ideology capable of destroying mankind, is when homosexual marriage is seen not as an aberration, but as something as natural, as right, as rain. This sort of humanism is the harbinger of unbelievable pain and suffering as a necessary antidote to the destruction of humanity. According to Jesus it will be the undeniable sign of the final generation of mankind as we know it.

In Midrash Rabbah, the Jewish sages say (and they said this three hundred years ago long before it became a modern practice) that God tolerates all sin but one: giving marriage certificates to homosexuals. They say that he destroyed the antediluvian world because of that sin. Likewise, Jesus compared our day (the final generation of mankind) to the days of Noah (when homosexuality was not considered aberrant, but glorious), and Sodom and Gomorrah, where homosexuality was normal, and heterosexuality an aberration.

Homosexual sexuality isn't itself the problem or the point (homosexual sexuality is a personal decision that's the business of no one but those involved). It's the fact that when society itself, refuses to label an act aberrant, and another normal, that human "Being-ness" (in Heidegger's sense) is under full, frontal, naked, attack.

Putin is a godsend in that kind of environment. God pray he wakes up the Woke West before God is forced to do it himself.

Oh . . . btw, let me be the first to welcome you to the forum! :D




John
 
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John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
That's nonsense. Anybody who praises "a devil" is a fool.
The only reason Putin is fighting a war, is because he can.
Power corrupts .. it causes the devil to make you think you are whiter than white, when the converse is true.

Does the Devil make Putin ---and others ---think whatever they believe, is true, just because they believe it; so that any other opinion, educated or not, is "nonsense," because people like Putin know their own mind is the place where all truth resides; or else they believe that they would never let a lie reside in the sanctity of their beautiful mind?

Would you allow a lie, or a falsehood, to infect your beautiful thinking?



John
 
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Lol wow you wouldn't listen anyway you can't rid the world of sin God doesn't even do that he just forgives - if you follow the bible you know it all ends pretty badly with God having to bring 3 days of darkness to stop us from doing what we are doing and of course the final battle against satan - you can't stop it no man can if its true. I wouldn't put my money on Putin but I guess someone has to.
 
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John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
Lol wow you wouldn't listen anyway you can't rid the world of sin God doesn't even do that he just forgives - if you follow the bible you know it all ends pretty badly with God having to bring 3 days of darkness to stop us from doing what we are doing and of course the final battle against satan - you can't stop it no man can if its true. I wouldn't put my money on Putin but I guess someone has to.

We probably agree on most of what you've said. And if I were a betting man (and I have been known to be at times), I'd wager that Putin is the red scourge spoken of in Revelation 6:4:

And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another . . .​

And to Metis I'd note that power is given to him. Who gives such power but God? Meaning even Putin is serving God. Is he serving God as a temporary slowing down of the evil, anti-God humanism of the woke West? Or is he serving God as the final solution to mankind's incessant wokeness?

My hope is that Putin is the former not the latter. I want him to win in Ukraine and let the West rethink their flawed humanistic belief in globalism and a universal woke brotherhood that can't distinguish between male or female, natural or aberrant (an exit or an entry).




John
 
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metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
As I noted in message #238, Putin is the natural defense against the belief that human nature has rid itself of the things that caused war in the past. That's why he's to be praised.

Unfortunately, since the Gospels give us the criteria for correct actions, misinterpreting the Gospels could lead to incorrect actions. Therefore, our accountability for our actions would then be related to our correct interpretation of the Gospels. If we misinterpret the Gospels our actions will reveal that we have misinterpreted the Gospels.
The two above are just nonsense as the general theme of Jesus' Gospel is quite easy to understand. What are Jesus' Two Commandments? Even a 10 year old Sunday school student should know that.

One of the very first I come to is Matthew 10:34:

Think not that I am come to send peace on the earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
And keep on reading. He makes it very clear that this refers to divisions between believers and non-believers, thus not any kind of justification for starting a war.

Basically, what you are doing is nothing short of turning the Gospel on its head.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
And to Metis I'd note that power is given to him. Who gives such power but God? Meaning even Putin is serving God. Is he serving God as a temporary slowing down of the evil, anti-God humanism of the woke West? Or is he serving God as the final solution to mankind's incessant wokeness?
That is seriously twisted [see my last post].
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
In my opinion, your last statement is extremely important. Your having been against the death penalty is ---again, in my opinion --- part of a hope, or panacea, related to a non-biblical belief that man is basically good (redeemed, or not needing redemption) rather than inherently, biologically, bad (evil inclination, original sin, sin nature, etc.).

No. First, I don't consider any human to be "inherently" good OR bad.
I don't play that silly black and white game.

Actions / behavior can be good or bad.

Now, when we see sin nature (the evil inclination) in action ---ala Putin --- you might now realize why the death penalty is important, and why the USA, the bastion of bible-belt thinking, has always demanded that we have the most powerful military in the world even though we've never tried to use it for anything other than self-defense.

That last part made me LOL.
When has the US ever used its army for "self-defense"? To my knowledge, the US homeland has been attacked exactly once at Pearl Harbor.

Yet I'm having a hard time finding a period in the last 100 years when the US army was NOT involved in some conflict somewhere in the world.

That isn't to say all these interventions were bad / evil or with the US as the aggressor. Some were in defense of other nations or people as well, which is fine.
But Self-defense is when your home country is being attacked.

Having said all that, I'm talking about the death penalty in civilian crime related things.
In the case of Putin, that's not exactly the case. Here we have an authoritarian leader of a country who's having his nation's army wage a personal war. Hardly in the same league.


The death penalty, and the means to implement it (law enforcement and justice department), individually, and even nationally (nuclear deterrence), are the price for freedom.

Countries without the death penalty do better then countries with the death penalty in terms of personal freedom and overall societal health.

I'm off course talking about secular democracies.

Putin is like that. If he teaches a new generation that the death penalty, and military prowess, are not things of the past, i.e., that human nature is still in need of redemption, mankind is not fully redeemed, yet, then even if lots of people, and perhaps even nations, get amputated in the process, if it allows humanity to wake up without being woke up it will be more than worth it and Putin, while he appears to be evil, could be understood to be a necessary evil, even a good.

Go tell it to Ukrainians hiding in cellars of civilian buildings while being bombed.
Go tell them this is a "necessary evil" and even a "good thing".

If Putin understand all this, and is doing what he's doing because of how divorced from reality the Western Democracies have become, then . . . drum roll please . . . he should be Praised.

This is absolutely a most despicable thing to say.
I don't even know how to respond.

Go have muffin with Tucker Carlson. I'm sure you two will have a lot to agree about.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Western Democracy has Woke up to the very kind of thinking Paul said would bring fire from heaven. And I believe it will. . . Unless Putin wakes up the Woke West real fast.

What the heck are you on about.

Putin is waging a personal war because he can't stand that the former soviet states are gravitating towards western secular democracy and freedom, and by doing so are performing better then his authoritarian nostalgic wonna-return-to-soviet-era russia.

The reason he hates the was has nothing to do with so-called "woke" or anything wrong with the west.
The only thing "wrong" in the west in the eyes of a guy like Putin is that the people have freedom and that power isn't absolute for the leaders.

Putin wants to live in a world with no opposition - that's why he poisons his adversaries.
Putin wants to live in a world where he is above the law - that's why he puts corrupt judges in place and why there is no separation of powers.
Putin wants to live in a world where the people only hear what he wants them to hear - that's why he shuts down all independent media.


This war is 110% about him and his cohorts maintaining absolute authoritarian power.
He doesn't want secular democracy because he can't stay in power with secular democracy.

That's it.

So I can only conclude that you are just another victim of the Putin propaganda machine, thinking/believing that it is about anything BUT that.
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
And again: it has nothing to do with "flawed humanistic belief" and everything with authoritarian rule vs freedom for the people. It's plain old nationalism, corruption and despotism. Nothing more, nothing less.

What about an authoritarian epistemological disposition that states the way things are as though there's no freedom to disagree or see things differently?



John
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
This war is 110% about him and his cohorts maintaining absolute authoritarian power.

Someone in this thread implied that one of Putin's primary faults is believing 110% in whatever he believes or says. If what you say above is 110% true, then you're absolutely right concerning my 110% incorrect premise in this tread.

Thank God that you have no army (that I know of) in order to do to me what Putin is doing to Ukraine since those who think in terms of their own absolute goodness and correctness could be thought to be not only dangerous to themselves but to those who don't recognize their access to the 110% truth of a matter.

How is your innate ability to perceive, with better than 110% accuracy, what Putin is thinking, and doing, not subject to Putin's own authoritarian epistemological bent? I'm sure to Putin his rightness, correctness, goes without saying. But it seems like the same is true of you?

Of course you're right but Putin isn't. I've no doubt that seems perfectly self-evident to you.




John
 
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John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
In my opinion it does no good to disarm, and become a peaceful nation, and then when a tyrant attacks, wring your hands about how wrong it is that they're taking everything from you.

Case in point. Ukraine had numerous nuclear weapons that would have guarded their freedom and independence. But they trusted their freedom and independence to promises and good will gestures rather than the weapons of war.

It's sad but true, freedom comes out of the barrel of a gun, or out of a nuclear silo. That's the only thing liars and tyrants fear: their own destruction. And they (the tyrants) are going to have weapons of war. Count on that. You better too.

Innocent people are dying every day simply because we believed that those countries were going to provide what they obliged for. . .Which means when Ukraine gave up its nuclear potential … Ukraine was confident the other countries who have signed all of those agreements were going to guarantee its territorial integrity, it's independence and it's sovereignty.

Zelenskyy.

Cursed be the man that trusteth in man.

Jeremiah.


John
 
Your mistaken the Ukrainian never had any nukes the Russians had nukes and took them back - if the Ukrainian wants nukes they have to develop them. They can't just take Russian nukes and claim them as their own Russia would never allowed it because they belong to the Russians. Would Russia allow the Ukraine to threaten them with Russian nukes not a chance they removed them.
 
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