Praising Putin.

[John D. Brey]

REVELATION 18
and
Revelation 1:20
The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."
The right hand is the military.
A church is an assembly of people of the same beliefs. The mystery revealed is these assemblies are nations. 7 nations and the 7 golden candlesticks are fighter jets fully loaded with coals of fire beneath their wings, missiles. These angels=messengers are pilots/air forces that support their nations with the message follow the laws of our nation or die.
These are the 7 nuclear armed nations that fight in thermonuclear World War 3, the Beast.

. . . This seems like allegorization run amuck. I don't think the signs and symbols lend themselves to that quite that level of specificity. Not sure if you're joking or you're actually caught up in eisegesis that's almost totally dispensed with exegesis?




John

 

[metis]

Putin is correct to be conducting the war he's conducting. And the West is engaged in a war of words against him that are, their words, "evil," in every sense of that word.

And you actually think that this position is a Christain one, right? If so, when and why did you decide to throw your Bible into the trashcan?

 

[Heyo]

And you actually think that this position is a Christain one, right? If so, when and why did you decide to throw your Bible into the trashcan?

Just face it, Christianity is a very inclusive religion. From pacifists to warmongers like John, everyone can call her/himself Christian and you can't do anything against it. And I guess he could defend his position using the bible. That's why
- there is no such thing as Christian position
- the bible isn't fit to teach morality.

 

[John D. Brey]

And you actually think that this position is a Christain one . . .

I don't think I've implied that in this thread. But I suppose a position held by a Christian could, in some sense, be called a Christian position.

What do you think the "Christian position" is on Putin? What did Jesus or Paul say about him?



John

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

In the thread discussing St. Paul's take on same-sex marriage, a theory was proffered that, if it's fully understood, leads to praise for Vladimir Putin. While the whole world gangs up on Putin, in truth, Putin is more like the character John Galt in Putin's fellow citizen's universally renown book Atlas Shrugged.

Though today's Christians pile on to the gang rape of Putin, their ancient ancestors, to include St. Paul, and the other Apostles, would be appalled at the Putin haters and not at Putin himself; they'd be appalled that Christians have become so blind and so willing to sell their soul for a crust of bread from their globalist, universalist, humanist, masters.

May our Lord strengthen Putin and enfeeble the feeble-minded oblivious to the fact that in their lust to destroy Putin they're actually destroying the world with whom they're so madly in love (1 John 2:15).

John

If those ancestors were also into misinformation, blatant lies in the form of propaganda, against freedom, against truth and then use all that to bomb nurseries, maternity wards or anything else for that matter, then they can all go suck a lemon and die painfully.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Did the USA "exterminate" women and children at Hiroshima and Nagasaki? If you think so (and I don't), who are we to judge Putin?



John

So because people from 3 generations ago, who aren't even alive today, did something nasty therefor we can't judge others for their despicable behavior?

Now that is despicable.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Bush/Cheney lied well to the whole world about an immanent threat to global security. We all trusted them, and we all got duped.

No we didn't. Many, if not most, of us Europeans didn't buy it at all.

I was at 7 rallies against that war, along with millions of others.
I still see Cowell's face lying through his teeth at that UN meeting.

It was despicable. Just like Putin's war is.
And Bush was called a war criminal just as well.

 

[metis]

What do you think the "Christian position" is on Putin? What did Jesus or Paul say about him?

I don't judge a person, but I can and sometimes do judge a person's actions, including my own.

 

[metis]

Just face it, Christianity is a very inclusive religion. From pacifists to warmongers like John, everyone can call her/himself Christian and you can't do anything against it. And I guess he could defend his position using the bible. That's why
- there is no such thing as Christian position
- the bible isn't fit to teach morality.

That is assuming that the teachings within Christianity and Judaism are up for grabs but that simply is not the case. Interpretations and/or applications may vary, but there are at least some limits logically.

 

[metis]

What do you think the "Christian position" is on Putin? What did Jesus or Paul say about him?

How about what one reads in Jesus' "Sermon On the Mount"? I tend to think that's pretty explicit.

 

[John D. Brey]

If those ancestors were also into misinformation, blatant lies in the form of propaganda, against freedom, against truth and then use all that to bomb nurseries, maternity wards or anything else for that matter, then they can all go suck a lemon and die painfully.

I can't disagree with you. I naturally have my own take on the most important word in your statement: if.



John

 

[John D. Brey]

How about what one reads in Jesus' "Sermon On the Mount"? I tend to think that's pretty explicit.

I would say the sermon on the mount, like any other comment found in the scripture, is set in a context and has numerous nuances that must be appreciated to properly understand its meaning.

The poet Leonard Cohen was wise to admit he doesn't pretend to understand the sermon on the mount at all.

John

 

[John D. Brey]

I don't judge a person, but I can and sometimes do judge a person's actions, including my own.

Actions aren't always a perfect criterion for judging motives. Jesus' disciples were dumbfounded about much he said and did until his resurrection. His resurrection was an aha moment for them. It put things into perspective that prior to his death and resurrection made no sense.

The aha moment for understanding Putin's actions in Ukraine is found in Romans chapter one.



John

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I can't disagree with you. I naturally have my own take on the most important word in your statement: if.

I don't know, and don't care one way or the other about the ancestors. I care about the here and now and what happens today.

And the fact is, that Putin and his cohorts are currently engaged in one of the most immoral and brutal things a human could engage in. And they are so blatantly lying that it's not even funny anymore. To the outside world, they aren't even trying to cover up their lies. The inside world is another story. Although they aren't trying to cover up, but rather just silencing all other voices.

At this point, the only thing Putin deserves, is a bullet in the head.

And that's coming from a guy who's against the death penalty.

 

[metis]

I would say the sermon on the mount, like any other comment found in the scripture, is set in a context and has numerous nuances that must be appreciated to properly understand its meaning.

If this is your feeble attempt at some sort of childish one-upmanship, then it's you who needs to understand "context". To justify wars of offense, such as Putin is now waging, on some sort of perverted sense of "context", is simply a defiance of the Gospel.

 

[metis]

Actions aren't always a perfect criterion for judging motives. Jesus' disciples were dumbfounded about much he said and did until his resurrection. His resurrection was an aha moment for them. It put things into perspective that prior to his death and resurrection made no sense.

Of course it's possible to misinterpret actions at times, but the Gospel makes us accountable for our actions and also those of the Flock, such as when Jesus said "...and you shall know them by their fruits". You don't understand this?

The aha moment for understanding Putin's actions in Ukraine is found in Romans chapter one.

Well, I've read that chapter many times, so where supposedly is the conduct of an offensive war justified under the Gospel standards found there?

The word "peace", as found in the NT, is cited 99 times, many of them spoken by Jesus, and you can see them all here: Bible, Revised Standard Version (umich.edu) So, where is Putin's actions supposedly justified?

 

[Bill Starr]

So because Putin is against homosexuality it gives him a pass on all the blood on his hand from the dead civilians in an unprovoked war not only in the Ukraine but else where also - he has a licence to kill because he's anti homosexual with no accountability to God for anything else he does all that matters is he's anti homosexual.

I didn't know it worked that way in religion.

 

[John D. Brey]

I don't know, and don't care one way or the other about the ancestors. I care about the here and now and what happens today.

And the fact is, that Putin and his cohorts are currently engaged in one of the most immoral and brutal things a human could engage in. And they are so blatantly lying that it's not even funny anymore. To the outside world, they aren't even trying to cover up their lies. The inside world is another story. Although they aren't trying to cover up, but rather just silencing all other voices.

At this point, the only thing Putin deserves, is a bullet in the head.

And that's coming from a guy who's against the death penalty.

In my opinion, your last statement is extremely important. Your having been against the death penalty is ---again, in my opinion --- part of a hope, or panacea, related to a non-biblical belief that man is basically good (redeemed, or not needing redemption) rather than inherently, biologically, bad (evil inclination, original sin, sin nature, etc.).

Now, when we see sin nature (the evil inclination) in action ---ala Putin --- you might now realize why the death penalty is important, and why the USA, the bastion of bible-belt thinking, has always demanded that we have the most powerful military in the world even though we've never tried to use it for anything other than self-defense. Human nature is problematic in the extreme and thus guns, nukes, and the legal right to own and deploy them are required.

The death penalty, and the means to implement it (law enforcement and justice department), individually, and even nationally (nuclear deterrence), are the price for freedom.

But, as someone will protest, you, mr. Brey, named the thread "Praising Putin," when he's clearly the most inclined to evil at the moment?

A feral cat we fed got bit on her front arm and it swoll up badly such that we tried our darnedest to catch the poor girl to lend a hand. But she simply wouldn't have it. And before we could trap her, she disappeared beneath a house where she lived and hid. She reappeared a week or two latter without her front leg. Her body had literally amputated it and amazingly she lived through the ordeal without antibiotics.

The swelling, the pain, and the loss of the limb, were no doubt incredibly unpleasant. But she lived. The pain and amputation was necessary for her to go on living such that the parts of her biology that attacked the arm till it rotted off, though they were causing the pain, swelling, and amputation, saved her life.

Putin is like that. If he teaches a new generation that the death penalty, and military prowess, are not things of the past, i.e., that human nature is still in need of redemption, mankind is not fully redeemed, yet, then even if lots of people, and perhaps even nations, get amputated in the process, if it allows humanity to wake up without being woke up it will be more than worth it and Putin, while he appears to be evil, could be understood to be a necessary evil, even a good.

If Putin understand all this, and is doing what he's doing because of how divorced from reality the Western Democracies have become, then . . . drum roll please . . . he should be Praised.



John

 

[John D. Brey]

If this is your feeble attempt at some sort of childish one-upmanship, then it's you who needs to understand "context". To justify wars of offense, such as Putin is now waging, on some sort of perverted sense of "context", is simply a defiance of the Gospel.

As I noted in message #238, Putin is the natural defense against the belief that human nature has rid itself of the things that caused war in the past. That's why he's to be praised. He's waking up a woke generation.

Your belief that your opinion and understanding of what the Gospels means is absolutely correct, and mine is necessarily wrong (since it's different than your correct one) is even a worse mistake (in my opinion) than the belief that human nature isn't inherently corrupt. Your mistake is problematic, in my opinion, since its context for rightness is godlike: it's your opinion, and your understanding, and that settles the fact that it's correct. . . Any opposition to your understanding is defiance of the Gospel truth, i.e., your understanding as Gospel truth.



John

 

[John D. Brey]

Of course it's possible to misinterpret actions at times, but the Gospel makes us accountable for our actions . . ..

Unfortunately, since the Gospels give us the criteria for correct actions, misinterpreting the Gospels could lead to incorrect actions. Therefore, our accountability for our actions would then be related to our correct interpretation of the Gospels. If we misinterpret the Gospels our actions will reveal that we have misinterpreted the Gospels.




John