Premarital Sex vs. Homosexuality

[Nerthus]

People should be concerned with their own lives, rather than hating on others.

If I go out and spend the rest of my life gay bashing and trying to convert someone to being straight, then when I get to Heaven and find out from God that I haven't been accepting of others, but more concerned with them rather than my life and relationship with God - I'm going to kick myself!

 

[emiliano]

People should be concerned with their own lives, rather than hating on others.

If I go out and spend the rest of my life gay bashing and trying to convert someone to being straight, then when I get to Heaven and find out from God that I haven't been accepting of others, but more concerned with them rather than my life and relationship with God - I'm going to kick myself!

The reason is simple if you love them you want them in God kingdom and to get that we must obey God, I repeat we are commanded to love all humans but abhor sin as sin is evil because it damages the soul we must abhor the evil of sin. The two main commandment are to love God above all thing and our fellowman as we love ourself. If we see the lost and don’t do everything to turn them to God we don’t love them nor do we love God.

 

[kejos]

You know, that No True Scotsman fallacy gets really old.

It's the No True Scotsman Fallacy fallacy that's absurd.

No true Scotsman puts sugar on his porrage, we are told.
Angus puts sugar on his porrage, we are told.
Ergo, Angus is not a Scotsman.

Fair enough. If that's the way you want to define Scotsmen, go with it. Go barmy, if you really insist. Because Angus is as Scottish as his father Fergus, who never put anything but salt on his porrage, och, no. His birth certificate proves that.

Now how do we define a Christian? Do we use a criterion like the one used above, which is completely senseless? Or do we check out the teaching of Christ? Good idea? Christian, Christ? Gerrit?

Well, according to those gospels, the sources of information about him, Christ said that many would call him, "Lord, Lord," but he would tell them in response, "'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!"

So taking people at their word in this matter is no sensible course of action. What did Jesus say is the sensible course? "You will know them by their fruits." Iow, the way people behave is what counts. It's their birth certificate. And what did Jesus say were bad fruits? Theft, violence, adultery, fornication, drunkenness, and sodomy.

So anyone who says that homosexuals can be Christians simply doesn't know what he's talking about. At best.

 

[Nerthus]

The reason is simple if you love them you want them in God kingdom and to get that we must obey God, I repeat we are commanded to love all humans but abhor sin as sin is evil because it damages the soul we must abhor the evil of sin. The two main commandment are to love God above all thing and our fellowman as we love ourself. If we see the lost and don’t do everything to turn them to God we don’t love them nor do we love God.

Yes, but you also have to respect who they are whether you like it or not! If you aren't gay, you don't know what it would be like, or whether you can just 'turn it off'. I want people to be in Heaven - but I will not continue to try and force them to be straight. I wouldn't go to a Hindu or Muslim and try and convert them.

Because, if someone came to me and did that - I would not start believing God was a loving, kind God. I'd run a mile from people like that.

 

[kejos]

Yes, but you also have to respect who they are whether you like it or not! If you aren't gay, you don't know what it would be like, or whether you can just 'turn it off'. I want people to be in Heaven - but I will not continue to try and force them to be straight. I wouldn't go to a Hindu or Muslim and try and convert them.

Because, if someone came to me and did that - I would not start believing God was a loving, kind God. I'd run a mile from people like that.

So what is to be thought of Allah, when Muslims attempt to convert others?

 

[blackout]

and "we" don't care what you think about "us" or our lives anyway.

really.

nothing personal.

 

[Nerthus]

So what is to be thought of Allah, when Muslims attempt to convert others?

I see it as the same.

If someone of any faith tries to change me, I won't listen. Just like if someone tells me I should eat meat again, or dress a certain way.

The more you force people, you more they will fight away from it.

 

[kejos]

I see it as the same.

So is Allah not a loving deity if a Muslim tries to persuade you to believe Islam?

 

[blackout]

I see it as the same.

If someone of any faith tries to change me, I won't listen. Just like if someone tells me I should eat meat again, or dress a certain way.

The more you force people, you more they will fight away from it.

You seem sweet ReligiousGirl.

I wonder though,
is it really a matter of "not listening"?
Or is it more a matter of knowing WHO you are.

When you already know who you are,
and you love yourSelf
there IS nothing to "fight away" from.

At best prostylization is a waste of time.
At worst it is Obnoxious and rude.

Who could "force me" to be anyone... anything...
other than WHO I AM?
You know?

 

[Misty]

I see it as the same.

If someone of any faith tries to change me, I won't listen. Just like if someone tells me I should eat meat again, or dress a certain way.

The more you force people, you more they will fight away from it.

Like you I am my own person, and if someone tries to persuade me to change my thinking in a forceful way I will certainly tell them to 'get lost'.

 

[Nerthus]

You seem sweet ReligiousGirl.

I wonder though,
is it really a matter of "not listening"?
Or is it more a matter of knowing WHO you are.

When you already know who you are,
and you love yourSelf
there IS nothing to "fight away" from.

At best prostylization is a waste of time.
At worst it is Obnoxious and rude.

Who could "force me" to be anyone... anything...
other than WHO I AM?
You know?

I can only go on things where someone has tried to change me, and it's because I know who am I am, that I wouldn't let anyone do that. Even if the intentions behind were good!

I guess if someone is struggling with their sexuality, and are also a Christian, or looking into it, then they might be persuaded to change. But, I believe people are made the way they are for a reason, and I love people who can embrace that part of them despite a lot of the church being so dead against it.

And, God knows someone's heart, if they are true I don't believe He will challenge that.

 

[Nerthus]

Like you I am my own person, and if someone tries to persuade me to change my thinking in a forceful way I will certainly tell them to 'get lost'.

Yeah that's it! I will happily talk to people about God who are willing to listen and are interested in Christianity. But. I will not go out and approach people telling them about this certain type of person you have to be for God to love you. God made me who I am - if I was Gay, Bi or Straight - He made me that way.

 

[kejos]

God made me who I am - if I was Gay, Bi or Straight - He made me that way.

Did God say that?

 

[Duck]

It's the No True Scotsman Fallacy fallacy that's absurd.

No true Scotsman puts sugar on his porrage, we are told.
Angus puts sugar on his porrage, we are told.
Ergo, Angus is not a Scotsman.

Fair enough. If that's the way you want to define Scotsmen, go with it. Go barmy, if you really insist. Because Angus is as Scottish as his father Fergus, who never put anything but salt on his porrage, och, no. His birth certificate proves that.

Now how do we define a Christian? Do we use a criterion like the one used above, which is completely senseless? Or do we check out the teaching of Christ? Good idea? Christian, Christ? Gerrit?

Well, according to those gospels, the sources of information about him, Christ said that many would call him, "Lord, Lord," but he would tell them in response, "'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!"

So taking people at their word in this matter is no sensible course of action. What did Jesus say is the sensible course? "You will know them by their fruits." Iow, the way people behave is what counts. It's their birth certificate. And what did Jesus say were bad fruits? Theft, violence, adultery, fornication, drunkenness, and sodomy.

So anyone who says that homosexuals can be Christians simply doesn't know what he's talking about. At best.

Could you point out the verses that quote Jesus, you know the J-man, and not Paul talking specifically about the bad fruits etc? I am not familiar with those verses. I know all about the verses from Paul dealing with these issues, Thor knows that they get quoted often enough while people hit gays with baseball bats, or for that matter people that are only thought to be gay, but I am not familiar with the ones from Jesus dealing with this issue.

Thanks.

 

[kejos]

Could you point out the verses that quote Jesus, you know the J-man

Is it agreed, then, that the 'True Scotsman' gambit is nonsensical, and that Christians are known by their kind, peaceable, forgiving, self-controlled behavior, against which there is no law?

 

[Dezzie]

Personally... I don't believe God would condemn anyone (homosexual or not) if they are in love, happy, and are "soulmates". My husband and I made love before we were married too, so what. I don't think the Lord or whoever is out there would send me to Hell because I MADE LOVE to my soulmate before we were married. Give me a break. I believe that some people think about sex in the wrong way though... Too many people do it with various people a week (strangers at that), and for the soul purpose of it being fun. lol I don't know why either... it's way better when you are in love.

I think that whoever wrote the Bible may have put their own thoughts and feelings in there as a way to control people away from doing things the writer didn't like. It's so easy to "write the words of God" in my own words... I very well could have wrote a passage in there that said "God does not approve of Pornography"... and just for the soul reason that I didn't/don't agree with it.

Homosexuality is NOT wrong... it's all on a personal opinion basis if you ask me. I mean... some children are born homosexuals (IMO). Some children (when they are very young) know they are different than other people (heterosexuals) and are confused. Why in the world would God put a Spirit on this Earth, that is born different like that when he himself doesn't approve of it? Is it just a sick joke and a horrid way to mess with that young, confused child? Ugh... For goodness gracious people... the Bible was re-written OVER AND OVER. Are you all seriously going to sit there and say "every word in the Bible is 100% the word of God"??

Goodness........... this is such a touchy subject for me. Sorry if I come across rude. I promise with all my heart I don't mean it.

-Dezzie

 

[Dezzie]

Did God say that?

Did God say every single thing in the Bible? Most likely not... :no:

 

[Misty]

Is it agreed, then, that the 'True Scotsman' gambit is nonsensical, and that Christians are known by their kind, peaceable, forgiving, self-controlled behavior, against which there is no law?

That might apply to many mainstream Christians, but certainly not to quite a number of fundamentalists who can be unbelievably nasty.

 

[kejos]

Why in the world would God put a Spirit on this Earth, that is born different like that when he himself doesn't approve of it?

I think that homosexuality, in some cases, is an existential thing in its cause- it's an objection to creation, to existence itself, particularly one's own creation; and perversion, or inversion, of everything, as far as possible, is what ensues from this attitude. Homosexuality is the most obvious 'inversion'. This decision may take place early enough in life to go unremembered, even in the womb. The event may occur later in life, but be suppressed in the memory. Whenever it occurs, the subject may honestly believe that he/she was born homosexual. Others may recall their decision, but say that their behavior is innate.

And this may be all incorrect.

 

[kejos]

That might apply to many mainstream Christians, but certainly not to quite a number of fundamentalists who can be unbelievably nasty.

But then they won't be Christians, will they.