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Premarital Sex vs. Homosexuality

justbehappy

Active Member
Well what lacking in here is background, Those Christian that you mention for example. Are they your blood relatives?
I can tell you that to Christians sin is sin and have the same remedy “repentance and behavioural change, followed by development of virtues, those that love you and believe in Christianity would like/desire to see you in the kingdom of God. Did you know that sincere repentance mean a change in the way you lived till the time of your repentance?
God to Christians is merciful to those that repent and he help them to change.
Another thing is that Christians know that nobody is sinless, the punishment and shunning is for those that obstinately refuse to repent and change.
You are mixing concepts in your OP. Sexual immorality is a sin and it is what a person need to address and repent if they wish to go back to God, there are many that are quite happy to take the risk of been condemned, for those we need to pray, Christians are commanded to love others, so if they know you lost they will try to change you.
To Christians homosexuality is unnatural (a sin contra nature) and that separate them from God that is the only one that can help them to develop virtues, the chief one of then is self-control .
Adultery is a sin against God and the woman of your pact, when we marry we swear to forsake all other love, we do it in God presence so it is a sin like all other sins and we need to repent and sin no more, pre-marital sex is usually agreed on the on the understanding of a later marriage and is sin against the woman of our pact and God.
I think that is wrong to grade sins, specially if God’s mercy is ignore, the Bible clearly states that we are all sinners.

No what I am saying is that they don't think it is wrong what they're doing. And the ones that do, they continue to sin! Yet people think that homosexuals have committed the worst sin on earth or something. What I don't understand is why they consider their sin to be not even comparable to ours...
 

justbehappy

Active Member
Why do you see either as a problem?

Personally, I don't. When it comes to 'sin' I see the other as a bigger problem, but I'm not Christian so I'm speaking hypothetically.
Even though I personally think sex is for people that you love, I don't really care what other people do. I only see it a problem when they're spreading diseases.
 

justbehappy

Active Member
My church organization is equally against all sin.

Though it is my idea that the reason why certain christian's today make such a big deal about homosexuality is because it's constantly in the news. If Premarital sex was constantly in the news then there would be an open out rage against it. Though thats just my opinion.

What about telivision shows and movies? We hear about it from friends and family members, we read about it in books. It is everywhere.
 

Misty

Well-Known Member
That is my point. If so many people think that the bible is wrong on premarital sex, why can't the accept that it may be wrong about homosexuality too??

Goodness knows, but then it is isn't only Christians who are bigoted about gays!
 

Eliot Wild

Irreverent Agnostic Jerk
Goodness knows, but then it is isn't only Christians who are bigoted about gays!



True.

However, I suppose the reason I am personally more bothered by bigoted Christians is because of what I perceive to be a noxious hypocrisy reeking from them.

Though it is just my own personal interpretation, I know, and therefore I will certainly concede I may be wrong, it seems to me that Christ told his followers, among other things, to love everyone, treat all people the way you'd want to be treated and since nobody is without sin it is inappropriate to unduly judge people.

Personally, I know non-christians who are homophobic and bigoted. Though I don't find their bigotry anymore digestable than that of Christians, I don't find their views as hypocritical since they don't claim to follow a divine character who taught love and tolerance.
 

justbehappy

Active Member
True.

However, I suppose the reason I am personally more bothered by bigoted Christians is because of what I perceive to be a noxious hypocrisy reeking from them.

Though it is just my own personal interpretation, I know, and therefore I will certainly concede I may be wrong, it seems to me that Christ told his followers, among other things, to love everyone, treat all people the way you'd want to be treated and since nobody is without sin it is inappropriate to unduly judge people.

Personally, I know non-christians who are homophobic and bigoted. Though I don't find their bigotry anymore digestable than that of Christians, I don't find their views as hypocritical since they don't claim to follow a divine character who taught love and tolerance.

Frubals
 

kejos

Active Member
Personally, I don't.
You wrote that you did, though:

'but I see other sexual behavior as a much bigger problem than monogamous homosexual behavior'

...and again!
When it comes to 'sin' I see the other as a bigger problem
If what is hoped to be understood is that Christians make more fuss about homosexuality than they do about fornication or adultery, that homosexuals are somehow picked on- it seems to me that homosexuals are fantasising. It is homosexuals who bring up homosexuality, time and time again, in places such as this, usually propagating some fallacy at the expense of others; who go on marches and disport their bodies for TV cameras, etc.- when most people are really not all that interested in them, it seems to me.

The fact is that Christians have zero tolerance, among themselves, for any sexual relationship other than heterosexual marriage. What non-Christians do is their business. And might it be an idea if homosexuals started to mind their own business? Do they not protest too much?

It is quite true that the Bible refers to homosexuality as unnatural, and that irregular heterosexual relationships are at least natural- but then the ordinary man in the street said the very same way for centuries, until the PC conformity police stepped in a few decades ago. And imv, the ordinary man in the street often thinks the very same way, but does not say so. So there is nothing that can be done about that, and if homosexuals find the Bible irritating, they should consider that they possibly would not do so if they were not of the opinion that the Bible is actually the revelation of God. But Christians are interested in only one thing, as far as outsiders are concerned- conversion of those whom God has chosen, whether heterosexual or homosexual, black, white, young, old, rich, poor, respectable, criminal, whatever. Each person is a potential saint, and nobody is hated or despised.

It's no excuse to say that fundies in the USA pester homosexuals- they are not the responsibility of Christians, and Americans who suffer fundies need to take serious stock of their position with respect to this unique phenomenon. They live, for the most part, in far greater comfort, more cheaply, than others in the world, and their prosperity is in large part due to the Protestant work ethic, individualism and spirit of enquiry, either home-grown or imported. In the USA, Calvinism gave rise to Mammon, and Calvinism has to live, somehow, with Mammon, so my advice is, take the rough with the smooth, and be grateful. It is one thing to 'burn' with lust for another person- but just try living on a bowl of rice a day, or even one good meal a day, and loins-centered thoughts might well drift into insignificance.

Or, try emigrating.

But don't whinge to Christians, because they won't budge an inch, and you'll only harm your case.
 
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justbehappy

Active Member
'but I see other sexual behavior as a much bigger problem than monogamous homosexual behavior'

Once again, like I said in the last post and you apparently didn't read... I was speaking hypothetically. I obviously do not care about sins if I'm not Christian.

If what is hoped to be understood is that Christians make more fuss about homosexuality than they do about fornication or adultery, that homosexuals are somehow picked on- it seems to me that homosexuals are fantasising. It is homosexuals who bring up homosexuality, time and time again, in places such as this, usually propagating some fallacy at the expense of others; who go on marches and disport their bodies for TV cameras, etc.- when most people are really not all that interested in them, it seems to me.

First of all, why would we care to bring it up if others didn't put it down? The only reason we're passionate about out rights is because people are passionate about us not having them. If no one cared about us being gay, why would we care about talking about it? Take it from someone that actually pays attention to gay hate - there are just as many passionate anti-gays as passionate gays.

The fact is that Christians have zero tolerance, among themselves, for any sexual relationship other than heterosexual marriage.

You're wrong. Take the statistic from an earlier post - that 95% of people have sex before marriage. Knowing that 76% of the United States identifies themselves as Christians, we could concur that most of this 95% is Christian.

What non-Christians do is their business. And might it be an idea if homosexuals started to mind their own business? Do they not protest too much?

Like I said, just as much as people who protest against us.

But Christians are interested in only one thing, as far as outsiders are concerned- conversion of those whom God has chosen, whether heterosexual or homosexual, black, white, young, old, rich, poor, respectable, criminal, whatever. Each person is a potential saint, and nobody is hated or despised.

ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?! No one is hated or despised! Take it from someone who is gay, WE DON'T CARE IF YOU TRY TO CONVERT US. We RESPECT Christianity, and a lot of us are even Christian! The reason we get angry is because of the HATE. And it is out there - everywhere! I have never in my life been tried to be converted back to Christianity or told that God could save from being gay, etc. But SEVERAL times in my life have I been disrespected to no end because of GAY HATE.
 

kejos

Active Member
The only reason we're passionate about out rights is because people are passionate about us not having them.
But they are not Christians. How many times do you have to be told?

Or are you people not so much interested in homosexuality as destroying the church? That has always been a suspicion.
 

McBell

Unbound
The fact is that Christians have zero tolerance, among themselves, for any sexual relationship other than heterosexual marriage.
Blatant load of bull ****.

It is quite true that the Bible refers to homosexuality as unnatural,
Please present the verse where homosexuality is called unnatural.

But don't whinge to Christians, because they won't budge an inch
Yes.
There is nothing sadder than someone who thinks they already know it all.
 

McBell

Unbound
But they are not Christians. How many times do you have to be told?
Who are not Christians?
The people and groups behind crap laws like Prop 8 were most definitely Christians.


Or are you people not so much interested in homosexuality as destroying the church? That has always been a suspicion.
rotflmao

Are you seriously concerned that homosexuals wanting the same rights as heterosexuals will destroy the church?

Is the church so weak and frail?
 

Duck

Well-Known Member
But they are not Christians. How many times do you have to be told?

Or are you people not so much interested in homosexuality as destroying the church? That has always been a suspicion.

You know, that No True Scotsman fallacy gets really old. In another thread you pretty much claimed that the folks allowing gays in their church weren't really christians. Now the ones that hate on gays aren't christians? Terribly convenient to be able to both claim and not claim the bigots when it suits you hmm?
 

Duck

Well-Known Member
Who are not Christians?
The people and groups behind crap laws like Prop 8 were most definitely Christians.



rotflmao

Are you seriously concerned that homosexuals wanting the same rights as heterosexuals will destroy the church?

Is the church so weak and frail?

I think that the right wingers concern about homosexuals destroying the church stems pretty much from the whole if gays can marry there wont be any more babies slippery slope. Of course the church will cease to exist because all the menz will be home fisting each other while the ladiez are double ended dildoing it and not makin sammiches. -> no more babies cause the gubmint will make em all get aborshunz.
 

emiliano

Well-Known Member
You know, that No True Scotsman fallacy gets really old. In another thread you pretty much claimed that the folks allowing gays in their church weren't really christians. Now the ones that hate on gays aren't christians? Terribly convenient to be able to both claim and not claim the bigots when it suits you hmm?

I have expressed the some feelings elsewhere in the forum, Kejos is right Christians must not hate homosexuals but the sin of homosexuality in the same way that we are commanded to abhor all sins. This is a tick further more he is also right on this “folks allowing gays in their church weren't really Christians” as it is against the sound doctrines of the Church in respect to morality.
The Bible state clear doctrine and warns us in the epistles.
1Ti 1:10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,
1Ti 4:16 Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
Tts 1:9 holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict.
2Jo 1:9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
Are using the word hate as the Bible uses it?
I think that Kejos does.
 

emiliano

Well-Known Member
Blatant load of bull ****.

Please present the verse where homosexuality is called unnatural.

Yes.
There is nothing sadder than someone who thinks they already know it all.

I'll present some for you.
Rom 1:24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
 

Misty

Well-Known Member
True.

However, I suppose the reason I am personally more bothered by bigoted Christians is because of what I perceive to be a noxious hypocrisy reeking from them.

Though it is just my own personal interpretation, I know, and therefore I will certainly concede I may be wrong, it seems to me that Christ told his followers, among other things, to love everyone, treat all people the way you'd want to be treated and since nobody is without sin it is inappropriate to unduly judge people.

Personally, I know non-christians who are homophobic and bigoted. Though I don't find their bigotry anymore digestable than that of Christians, I don't find their views as hypocritical since they don't claim to follow a divine character who taught love and tolerance.

I totally agree.
 

Misty

Well-Known Member
I must admit I would just love to see the look on the faces of the Christians, who are bigoted towards gays, if they arrived in heaven to discover God was a gay man or a lesbian!
 
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