President Chickenhawk's Viet Nam Draft Deferments.

[Shad]

Explaining her getting more votes?

Or "It explains her getting more votes"

 

[Stevicus]

Where was I, I was in the service.
A wake-up that indicated the the USSR and what it stood for was a direct threat to the world and the U.S.
Listen to JFK's inaugural address

They felt just as threatened by us.

The geopolitics of the world was not so black-and-white as a lot of ideologues of that era would have us believe. True, a lot of people bought into it, but a lot of others did not.

A lot of people just didn't believe what the government was telling them. They didn't buy into the whole oversimplified "good guys"/"bad guys" version of world events.

As you mentioned Cuba, if their communist revolution was a "wake up," then it's only due to our own policies towards that country which produced the result it did. It was much the same regarding numerous countries in Latin America, Asia, and elsewhere around the world.

They had their own reasons for becoming angry and violently opposed to Western imperialism and capitalism, not because the Soviet Union told them to. We could have played things differently and done a better job at gaining the "hearts and minds" our government so desperately wanted. The opposition to the War in Southeast Asia and other such military actions was not at all rooted in not being "awake" or somehow being unaware of world events. It was quite the opposite, in fact, as the protesters and other anti-war activists were very aware of history and geopolitics and saw through the oversimplified propaganda which the government would have people believe.

In relation to the Cuban Missile Crisis, there was a strong fear of nuclear catastrophe which also tempered a lot of people's views on war in general. Both sides had nukes, and there was a definite mutual threat both sides had on each other. That threat remained growing and constant, but what we were dealing with elsewhere were ideological struggles within nations while both sides tried to use them as pawns in a larger Cold War.

It's just a good thing that the Russians were saner than we were and backed down. They've done so numerous times when they could have just as easily gone the other way. Back during the Berlin Airlift, then during the Cuban Missile Crisis, then with the fall of the Berlin Wall, and the break-up of the Soviet Union itself. They lost the game of "chicken" that we had been playing with them all those years, mainly because they never really were as crazy as we are.

 

[BSM1]

They felt just as threatened by us.

The geopolitics of the world was not so black-and-white as a lot of ideologues of that era would have us believe. True, a lot of people bought into it, but a lot of others did not.

A lot of people just didn't believe what the government was telling them. They didn't buy into the whole oversimplified "good guys"/"bad guys" version of world events.

As you mentioned Cuba, if their communist revolution was a "wake up," then it's only due to our own policies towards that country which produced the result it did. It was much the same regarding numerous countries in Latin America, Asia, and elsewhere around the world.

They had their own reasons for becoming angry and violently opposed to Western imperialism and capitalism, not because the Soviet Union told them to. We could have played things differently and done a better job at gaining the "hearts and minds" our government so desperately wanted. The opposition to the War in Southeast Asia and other such military actions was not at all rooted in not being "awake" or somehow being unaware of world events. It was quite the opposite, in fact, as the protesters and other anti-war activists were very aware of history and geopolitics and saw through the oversimplified propaganda which the government would have people believe.

In relation to the Cuban Missile Crisis, there was a strong fear of nuclear catastrophe which also tempered a lot of people's views on war in general. Both sides had nukes, and there was a definite mutual threat both sides had on each other. That threat remained growing and constant, but what we were dealing with elsewhere were ideological struggles within nations while both sides tried to use them as pawns in a larger Cold War.

It's just a good thing that the Russians were saner than we were and backed down. They've done so numerous times when they could have just as easily gone the other way. Back during the Berlin Airlift, then during the Cuban Missile Crisis, then with the fall of the Berlin Wall, and the break-up of the Soviet Union itself. They lost the game of "chicken" that we had been playing with them all those years, mainly because they never really were as crazy as we are.

Obviously you have no idea what was happening during that time period.

 

[Stevicus]

Obviously you have no idea what was happening during that time period.

Do you have an actual argument to make? Or is this just another of your trite and pointless remarks?

 

[BSM1]

Do you have an actual argument to make? Or is this just another of your trite and pointless remarks?

Your choice...

 

[Stevicus]

Your choice...

It would be more productive if you had some kind of substantive argument to make, but if all you're going to do is just give me more heckles from the peanut gallery, then I would say that's your choice.

I just think it's rather ironic that you imply that you know more than me on this topic, yet still have nothing of relevance to say. If you really think you know so much, then prove it. Let's see how much you can actually expound on this topic of which you say I have "no idea."

 

[Revoltingest]

Trump's avoiding the military draft is a big issue for his opponents.
It bespeaks cowardice, hypocrisy, & lack of patriotic duty.
I disagree, being a coward, non-patriot, & in opposition to that war.
(It was Vietnam, for you young whippersnappers).
Should the criticism of Trump in the OP be applied to Biden?
Let's consider the latter
1) Biden avoided the draft because of asthma & student deferments.
(Asthma didn't him from playing high school & college football.)
2) Biden was a fan of military power, eg, having voted for the Iraq
war in 2003.
Some sources. There are many others easily found.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/02/18/biden-afghanistan-military-power/?arc404=true
‘We actually fought in your damn wars!’: Biden turns back on veterans during confrontation over war record

Does this make Biden a "chicken hawk"?
Does it matter, as it did with Trump?
Harris will be a less than usual heartbeat away from the
presidence, so does it matter that she never served?
Or is it only a male's obligation?

 

[Tambourine]

Not wanting to serve in a war is Trump's least objectionable trait, in my opinion.

 

[Revoltingest]

Not wanting to serve in a war is Trump's least objectionable trait, in my opinion.

I say it's a positive.

 

[Shaul]

But the system is what it is.
One can legally avoid the draft by....

Being too thin
Being too fat
Being of the right religion, one which opposes all war.
Being female (not even required to register for the draft)
Having a low draft lottery number.
Being politically connected.
Being gay.
Being trans (not even required to register for the draft).
Being a student (in some years, but not others).
Being a priest or other clergy member.
Being a parent (the John Wayne method of avoiding WW2)
Being asthmatic as a kid (the Joe Biden method)
The list goes on & on......

There hasn’t been a draft in the United States since 1973. That’s almost 50 years.

 

[Revoltingest]

There hasn’t been a draft in the United States since 1973. That’s almost 50 years.

This is true.
Half a century (almost) but still a memorable thing for some of us.
Politicians still call for it's revival, eg, Rangel. Also, both Dems &
Pubs still support requiring that males (born as) register.
So they still keep it as an arrow in their quiver.

 

[Shaul]

I think that military hating people (especially those have never served or even worse refused or evaded serving) that criticize others who did not serve due to deferments are a special kind of hypocrite.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think that military hating people (especially those have never served or even worse refused or evaded serving) that criticize others who did not serve due to deferments are a special kind of hypocrite.

I wonder where I fit in?
I don't hate the military, although I'd hate being in it.
I worked on weapon design for it as an engineer.
But I'm a felonious draft dodger, having been able
to stay in the country when Nixon cancelled the draft.
I've no problem with others not serving.
I prefer to think of myself as an unpatriotic reprobate.

Btw, I sympathize with your post, but
am loath to use such harsh language.

 

[Tambourine]

I think that military hating people (especially those have never served or even worse refused or evaded serving) that criticize others who did not serve due to deferments are a special kind of hypocrite.

I think you guys should celebrate those managing to avoid a duty that would have required them to kill people, not denigrate them as cowards.

Nothing good comes from organized state violence.

 

[Revoltingest]

Nothing good comes from organized state violence.

There are occasions when it's worthwhile for the state to defend
itself from attack. I'm a fan of that, which is why I worked in aerospace.
Alas, our weapons are so often misused.

 

[esmith]

I think you guys should celebrate those managing to avoid a duty that would have required them to kill people, not denigrate them as cowards.

Nothing good comes from organized state violence.

Would you have said the above in 1941?

 

[metis]

I don't think Cadet Bone Spurs was opposed to the Viet Nam War on moral grounds so much as he was merely opposed to he himself risking his life to participate in it.

I have had bone spurs and they really don't usually last very long, and if they were to linger they can be dealt quite easily be dealt with medically.

To me, a greater problem is why is it that we see some veterans supporting Trump even though he is catering to Putin, refusing to even acknowledge his paying of the Taliban to kill American soldiers in Afghanistan. And why can't and won't Trump ever criticize Putin now even with a possible assassination attempt on a Russian adversary, for one example, which has happened before? And why no word from Trump on Russian interference in the Ukraine and now Belarus? And why has he talked with Putin with no other Americans in the room, even including not having an American translator? Just imagine the outrage from the Pubs if Obama had done that.

And then we've heard repeated claims by Trump that he "knows more than the generals", and also said that John McCain wasn't any war hero because he "got captured".

On and on and on... If I was a vet, I'd be outraged with his lack of words and action against the former KGB head. Trump's continued insults and unwillingness to confront Putin all too often borders on being treasonous, imo.

 

[Revoltingest]

Would you have said the above in 1941?

Tis one of the occasions I had in mind.

I wonder....
If Trump is "Cadet Bone Spurs", will Biden be "Cadet Asthma"?
Biden could also be "President Chickenhawk", were the name not already taken.

The double standard is amazing, eh.

 

[Tambourine]

Would you have said the above in 1941?

My grandfather served in the German army during WW2, so yes, absolutely.

Men who deserted from the Wehrmacht were frequently killed for it, and to this day, people have denied the heroism of these deserters out of a false sense of patriotism. To many people, desertion is a form of cowardice no matter what horrors they would desert from.

 

[esmith]

My grandfather served in the German army during WW2, so yes, absolutely.

Men who deserted from the Wehrmacht were frequently killed for it, and to this day, people have denied the heroism of these deserters out of a false sense of patriotism. To many people, desertion is a form of cowardice no matter what horrors they would desert from.

My mistake I thought you were in the U.S.
Unfortunately it appears your lack of knowledge about why the draft was vital to meet the manpower requirements to defend against the aggression of Germany and Japan when the U.S entered the war.