President Chickenhawk's Viet Nam Draft Deferments.

[Revoltingest]

I’ve read the thread so I know how it all leads to subject changing.

Your thread policing seems quite selective.
If you can't handle a discussion started by
another poster, tis best to not to jump in, &
object to its direction several posts into it.

 

[Revoltingest]

Compared to bone spurs that probably never existed?

Evidence?

 

[Stevicus]

I'm a big fan of cowardice, but it could also show good judgement.
Think about it....
Stupid war.
Good chance of injury or death.
Low pay.
Public disrespect...you know, being called "baby killer".
Being a tool of Johnson or Nixon.
Years wasted.
What kind of fool would do that willingly when an out is available?
Some blindly obedient uber patriot commie killer, perhaps.
What did you do?

I think it was the idea that some people could avoid the draft while it seemed to fall on others who didn't qualify for a deferment. I don't know if they did that during WW2 or not. In my grandfather's time (between the World Wars), he was able to buy his way out of the Army. I think they ended that sometime before WW2 but I'm not sure.

I don't think the general public totally bought into the whole idea of "containment" as a viable foreign policy, nor did they really go along with the Domino Theory or similar views which considered situations like Vietnam as a genuine threat to US security.

That may be part of the reason why some didn't really consider it to be shirking their duty to defend the country, since the country was never in any real danger, at least not from Vietnam. It was different during WW2, when people might have considered that there was a graver risk to the US homeland.

 

[esmith]

I think it was the idea that some people could avoid the draft while it seemed to fall on others who didn't qualify for a deferment. I don't know if they did that during WW2 or not. In my grandfather's time (between the World Wars), he was able to buy his way out of the Army. I think they ended that sometime before WW2 but I'm not sure.

I don't think the general public totally bought into the whole idea of "containment" as a viable foreign policy, nor did they really go along with the Domino Theory or similar views which considered situations like Vietnam as a genuine threat to US security.

That may be part of the reason why some didn't really consider it to be shirking their duty to defend the country, since the country was never in any real danger, at least not from Vietnam. It was different during WW2, when people might have considered that there was a graver risk to the US homeland.

Let me ask you a question
Where were you during the Bay of Pigs fiasco?
Where were you during the Cuban Missile Crisis?
Do you think that maybe the country saw the Cuban Missile Crisis as a wake-up?

 

[Stevicus]

Let me ask you a question
Where were you during the Bay of Pigs fiasco?
Where were you during the Cuban Missile Crisis?

These events occurred before I was born. Why do you ask? Where were you at that time? What does this have to do with what I wrote?

Do you think that maybe the country saw the Cuban Missile Crisis as a wake-up?

A wake-up from what? What are you getting at here?

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Sooo...you think you could simply walk into any draft board office and say (in a very loud voice, of course), "I have bone spurs", and the draft board is going to say, "Okay, go home and have a nice life"? Evidently you weren't around during the Viet Nam fiasco.

Given the money the Trumps have and how Donald has paid his way out of every legal challenge he's ever been in- you doubt money could have got him some leeway? Ah! You underestimate the power of the almighty dollar. I'll tell you what else about Trump I don't believe when he says it- that he actually worked for his degree from Wharton. He talks with less than fourth grade skills.

 

[Altfish]

I'm a big fan of cowardice, but it could also show good judgement.
Think about it....
Stupid war.
Good chance of injury or death.
Low pay.
Public disrespect...you know, being called "baby killer".
Being a tool of Johnson or Nixon.
Years wasted.
What kind of fool would do that willingly when an out is available?
Some blindly obedient uber patriot commie killer, perhaps.
What did you do?

Don't deny any of that BUT why did he not become a conscientious objector then. There were plenty of those - didn't Cassius Clay famously do that?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Well obviously there are those that think that bone spurs are nothing. Well, I hope you develop them along with the condition that usually causes them...plantar fasciitis. Then let's see what you think
I have both conditions and it is almost totally debilitating when it comes to being on your feet.

Dale hansen drove it home on 0:55

 

[BSM1]

I think it was the idea that some people could avoid the draft while it seemed to fall on others who didn't qualify for a deferment. I don't know if they did that during WW2 or not. In my grandfather's time (between the World Wars), he was able to buy his way out of the Army. I think they ended that sometime before WW2 but I'm not sure.

I don't think the general public totally bought into the whole idea of "containment" as a viable foreign policy, nor did they really go along with the Domino Theory or similar views which considered situations like Vietnam as a genuine threat to US security.

That may be part of the reason why some didn't really consider it to be shirking their duty to defend the country, since the country was never in any real danger, at least not from Vietnam. It was different during WW2, when people might have considered that there was a graver risk to the US homeland.

One contributing factor to the guys feeling obligated to go to Nam was the idea that most of our fathers won WWII single handed. It was a very high bar for us. This, plus the fact that we didn't have access to information as you do now so we weren't as politically inclined as today's youth coupled with a strong macho image for males at the time, and you have the perfect storm for a Viet Nam scenario. I was determined not to go to Nam, but by the above factor I felt I had to serve somewhere. Once I got into the service (Navy) I knew I would not go to Nam (unless they sent any of my shipmates over, then I would have gone even if I had to pay my own way. You tend to get close to the people you serve with.)

Given the money the Trumps have and how Donald has paid his way out of every legal challenge he's ever been in- you doubt money could have got him some leeway? Ah! You underestimate the power of the almighty dollar. I'll tell you what else about Trump I don't believe when he says it- that he actually worked for his degree from Wharton. He talks with less than fourth grade skills.

I don't discount this, but this is just speculation on your part. You can go back and check his records (unlike our previous president) and form your own conclusions. So what you're saying, I believe, is Trump is a bumbling idiot that has managed to build skyscrapers and resorts, amass a fortune, and beat the most intelligent woman in the world for the presidency. May we all be so stupid.

Don't deny any of that BUT why did he not become a conscientious objector then. There were plenty of those - didn't Cassius Clay famously do that?

Not really. Muhammid Ali declined to serve because he didn't recognize the government's authority over him (he was definitely railroaded, imho) because of his new founded religion. COs have been known to go to war as corpsmen, for example, and have shown great bravery. Ali's situation had more to do with race than choice. Again, he was terribly wronged by the government at the time.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think it was the idea that some people could avoid the draft while it seemed to fall on others who didn't qualify for a deferment.

That's the way it works.
But for those of us with no deferments, there's always Canuckistan.

I don't know if they did that during WW2 or not. In my grandfather's time (between the World Wars), he was able to buy his way out of the Army. I think they ended that sometime before WW2 but I'm not sure.

They did it in WW2 also.
John Wayne had a family deferment.
Jimmie Stewart had a medical deferment.
He was too skinny, but he over-ate until he could join.

I don't think the general public totally bought into the whole idea of "containment" as a viable foreign policy, nor did they really go along with the Domino Theory or similar views which considered situations like Vietnam as a genuine threat to US security.
That may be part of the reason why some didn't really consider it to be shirking their duty to defend the country, since the country was never in any real danger, at least not from Vietnam. It was different during WW2, when people might have considered that there was a graver risk to the US homeland.

Even for a good war, when the majority in a country selects
a small minority to bear the entire burden of fighting, I say....
**** that!

 

[Revoltingest]

Don't deny any of that BUT why did he not become a conscientious objector then. There were plenty of those - didn't Cassius Clay famously do that?

I looked into being one.
But one had to pick the right religion, & one had to oppose all war.
So I wasn't eligible.
The draft wasn't Chinese restaurant style...1 from column A, & 1 from column B.
Are you saying a CO deferment is more noble than a medical one?
What if Trump had moved to Canuckistan (as I'd planned)?
Would that have been better or worse?

 

[Revoltingest]

Not really. Muhammid Ali declined to serve because he didn't recognize the government's authority over him (he was definitely railroaded, imho) because of his new founded religion. COs have been known to go to war as corpsmen, for example, and have shown great bravery. Ali's situation had more to do with race than choice. Again, he was terribly wronged by the government at the time.

The guys who went & were killed or maimed were far more wronged than Ali.
But each made his choice.

 

[BSM1]

The guys who went & were killed or maimed were far more wronged than Ali.
But each made his choice.

Of course you are right. I am sorry if I implied that. I respect your choice for not serving, but I had ulterior motives for joining. I wanted to see the world, get away from home, and get completely plastered in other countries (16 last count). I knew the war was a fiasco before I went in; and, as I saw the situation from a military/political prospective, I wouldn't have gone even if they ordered me. As a matter of fact, the last few months of my hitch an officer got mad at my attitude (go figure) and threatened to send me over for PBR duty (which was basically a suicide mission by that late in the war). I had already planned my route from Charleston to Canada if those orders were ever cut.

 

[Revoltingest]

Of course you are right. I am sorry if I implied that. I respect your choice for not serving, but I had ulterior motives for joining. I wanted to see the world, get away from home, and get completely plastered in other countries (16 last count). I knew the war was a fiasco before I went in; and, as I saw the situation from a military/political prospective, I wouldn't have gone even if they ordered me. As a matter of fact, the last few months of my hitch an officer got mad at my attitude (go figure) and threatened to send me over for PBR duty (which was basically a suicide mission by that late in the war). I had already planned my route from Charleston to Canada if those orders were ever cut.

Young'ns these days don't know how good they have it.

 

[BSM1]

Young'ns these days don't know how good they have it.

It was definitely a different time.

 

[Altfish]

Not really. Muhammid Ali declined to serve because he didn't recognize the government's authority over him (he was definitely railroaded, imho) because of his new founded religion. COs have been known to go to war as corpsmen, for example, and have shown great bravery. Ali's situation had more to do with race than choice. Again, he was terribly wronged by the government at the time.

I stand corrected

 

[Altfish]

I looked into being one.
But one had to pick the right religion, & one had to oppose all war.
So I wasn't eligible.
The draft wasn't Chinese restaurant style...1 from column A, & 1 from column B.
Are you saying a CO deferment is more noble than a medical one?
What if Trump had moved to Canuckistan (as I'd planned)?
Would that have been better or worse?

I don't honestly know. I don't know Trumps medical condition BUT...

He is a serial golfer, who plays more golf than just about anyone I know; a round of golf involves walking about 5-miles. OK, he may nowadays use a buggy but the bone spurs didn't effect his golf.

If he was like John McCain, I'd have no problem with him calling people cowards but he obviously isn't. It is his total hypocrisy that stands out AND his supporters don't seem to see it. But are quick to point it out in Obama or Clinton with the usual, "Look over there"

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't honestly know. I don't know Trumps medical condition BUT...

He is a serial golfer, who plays more golf than just about anyone I know; a round of golf involves walking about 5-miles. OK, he may nowadays use a buggy but the bone spurs didn't effect his golf.

If he was like John McCain, I'd have no problem with him calling people cowards but he obviously isn't. It is his total hypocrisy that stands out AND his supporters don't seem to see it. But are quick to point it out in Obama or Clinton with the usual, "Look over there"

Calling others "coward", be it Trump or McCain, is seldom ever useful.
From Trump, is smacks of hypocrisy....From McCain, it's sanctimony.

 

[Altfish]

Calling others "coward", be it Trump or McCain, is seldom ever useful.
From Trump, is smacks of hypocrisy....From McCain, it's sanctimony.

I wasn't accusing McCain of calling people cowards. I was just suggesting that if Trump had a military record the equivalent of McCain's I'd have no problem with him calling other people out.
But he definitely doesn't have.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It's in response for your baseless fear of some country bombing us simply because Trump is neither a diplomatic nor a politician (thank God).

Trump is a politician. Not a very good or experienced politician, but still a politician.