Pro-choice and pro-life

[oldbadger]

In today's world we see...
-people who claim to be pro-life but avoid a vaccine that can save lives

No...... they could be the unfortunate who reacts to that vax, and dies.
I support vaxxing but I recognise that we have lost 100+ lives in the UK thru vaxxing.

-people who claim to be pro-choice but want forced vaccinations.

No. ...... Because there is NOBODY on RF that supports a forced vaccination mandate. Nobody.

They might support passports, but nobody supports 'the vax squad' coming to your door.

 

[We Never Know]

Heck you can say Hitler wasn't all bad. He brought Germany out of a depression that was worse than America's, rebuilt the nation in three years into an industrial powerhouse, hosted the Olympics in 1936 with the first modern games that set the standard ever since, and was Time Magazine's Man of the Year in 1938. Stalin wasn't all bad, either. He brought Russia out of an archaic agrarian producer to becoming heavily industrialized and modern through the 30's. This helped Russia defeat Germany years later since they had the industrial capacity to produce tanks and other weapons. Of course you know the darker histories better.

If you want to smooth over the negatives it can be done. But we tend to look at what is most notable about leaders. trump was highly indifferent to the job, was incompetent, was highly corrupt, and did very little that actually helped the USA progress. His immigration policies were criminal. He actually had an easy time as president until he had to face emergencies in his last year, and he failed miserably at these challenges. There's a reason he's ranked among the worst in history. Biden is not perfect but he is experienced and has had a lot of things on his plate his first year. Trying to put the government back together, and having lost time in the transition put us back a lot. His first priority was the vaccine to defeat the pandemic. And then work to support the economy. And then work to get infrastructure investment while he has a congress to pass it. And then Afghanistan turning ugly fast, which was more of a military failure than on Biden. The right has really mobilized in the USA and they are sabotaging efforts by the democrats to get the nation vaccinated, protecting voting access, helping the economy, and now this anti-abortion nonsense which is likely due to the supreme court being so conservative thanks to the three justices that trump picked. Republicans did support an infrastructure bill that after the long list of natural disasters happening there is a serious need for rebuilding it. Republicans are resisting more investment, and that will only hurt the future of the USA because we have serious problems that will cost more in the long run due to responding to the emergencies, and the lost times the public will be suffering the outages and destruction.

Do you actually think Joe is competent?
Biden is so scripted he gets lost when its not there. It wasn't long ago when he even read the script of who he should first call on to take questions from.

 

[We Never Know]

Have you thought a lot about what working while homeless means? You think they have clean clothes to even get hired, or they will get sufficient sleep, or a landlord will even lease to them?

I've been there many years ago. Clean up is more important than get a soda pop or cigarettes or whatever.

 

[We Never Know]

No...... they could be the unfortunate who reacts to that vax, and dies.
I support vaxxing but I recognise that we have lost 100+ lives in the UK thru vaxxing.

Thats rare

No. ...... Because there is NOBODY on RF that supports a forced vaccination mandate. Nobody.

They might support passports, but nobody supports 'the vax squad' coming to your door.

Really? Start a thread and ask who supports forced vaccines mandates. In my opinion @ecco will be one of the first to reply among the many.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

I've been there many years ago. Clean up is more important than get a soda pop or cigarettes or whatever.

Really.. well then, explain how you got out of that if you would

 

[We Never Know]

Really.. well then, explain how you got out of that if you would

Well like I said, soda pop, cigarettes, booze or whatever aren't needed things so don't waste money on them. Don't eat at red lobster if all you can only afford is mcdonald's.
It can be done.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Nah. It's why pro-abortion and anti-abortion are better terms.

They're really not, though.

I'm Pro-Choice, Anti-Abortion. I don't think anyone is really "pro-abortion". I don't think anyone's skipping to the clinic, happy to have it done. The problem with WNK's assessment is that it distorts the issues and unevenly compares them.

Yes, the "pro-life" stance is highly hypocritical. It would be more accurate to call them the "Force Birth" or "Pro-Birth" stance. The fetus's life is the only life that matters to such a stance, and only up until the moment it's born. After that, it's another parasite on the burden of their tax dollars.

"Pro-choice", on the other hand, is specific to advocating the choice of the mother-in-question. To recognize that it is her body, and her choice, in a matter that only affects her. (No, the fetus does not have a say because the fetus does not have higher brain function; abortions performed after such brain function develops are and always have been illegal with strict exception to save the life of the mother.) "Pro-choice" does not translate to "Pro-every single choice ever to be made", and is especially ill-compared to a situation in which everyone is affected by the chooser's medical negligence.

 

[SomeRandom]

In today's world we see...
-people who claim to be pro-life but avoid a vaccine that can save lives
And
-people who claim to be pro-choice but want forced vaccinations.

Isn't amazing how a virus can distort the views people hold?

You completely miss the nuance. Being pro choice I do not support vaccine mandates unless you’re in a high risk scenario (barring medical exemptions of course.) If you work with the elderly, if you have to travel, if you I dunno work in a hospital. We already mandated that for those scenarios here when the rollout began. Although I find it far more telling that someone would claim to be pro life and actively not take measures proven to save lives during a pandemic. Vaccine hesitancy is one thing, actively refusing it. Well not very pro life, if you ask me.

 

[We Never Know]

Really.. well then, explain how you got out of that if you would

Let me give you a better example. John Doe collected enough money to feed himself for a week. But instead he says "im craving a steak dinner" and he go blows it all on one steak dinner.
Who's fault is it that John was hungry the rest of the week?

 

[We Never Know]

You completely miss the nuance. Being pro choice I do not support vaccine mandates unless you’re in a high risk scenario (barring medical exemptions of course.) If you work with the elderly, if you have to travel, if you I dunno work in a hospital. We already mandated that for those scenarios here when the rollout began. Although I find it far more telling that someone would claim to be pro life and actively not take measures proven to save lives during a pandemic. Vaccine hesitancy is one thing, actively refusing it. Well not very pro life, if you ask me.

But yet some pro-choice that are here think a vaccine mandate should be a law.
Sane as some pro-life here avoid the vaccine like its poison.

 

[We Never Know]

You completely miss the nuance. Being pro choice I do not support vaccine mandates unless you’re in a high risk scenario (barring medical exemptions of course.) If you work with the elderly, if you have to travel, if you I dunno work in a hospital. We already mandated that for those scenarios here when the rollout began. Although I find it far more telling that someone would claim to be pro life and actively not take measures proven to save lives during a pandemic. Vaccine hesitancy is one thing, actively refusing it. Well not very pro life, if you ask me.

I would start a thread asking who thinks a vaccine mandate should be enforced but since any thread about that gets stuck in the covid forum they don't get many replies compared to being in say the general discussion forum. Plus they can go hours before they are approved.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Let me give you a better example. John Doe collected enough money to feed himself for a week. But instead he says "im craving a steak dinner" and he go blows it all on one stark dinner.
Who's fault is it that John was hungry the rest of the week?

I find your answers pretty vague, and I was hoping to get more technical detail on how you got out of homelessness, but if this is all you want to share, that's fine. I just think that when I look at a homeless person, I think that him getting out of it will entail more than avoiding a steak dinner. And actually, in order to work, I need a good steak dinner: I am losing weight at my warehouse forklift job as we enter the edge of the busy holiday season. And I imagine that a homeless person could use those calories too, as he is pelted by cold snow and rain

I'm Pro-Choice, Anti-Abortion. I don't think anyone is really "pro-abortion".

I come pretty close to being pro-abortion. I think choice is important, but birth control is often the rational path. By bringing someone into the world, you not only are responsible for their support, but you are endowing someone with the inevitable, compelled duty to socially participate. The latter part is the tougher part. It means that a ton could wrong. And the science of parenting, social function, and mere development seem fairly tenuous, when I observe debates about them, as a member of the public. I don't want to create someone, just so that the walls close in on them in one of many ways

 

[PureX]

In today's world we see...
-people who claim to be pro-life but avoid a vaccine that can save lives
And
-people who claim to be pro-choice but want forced vaccinations.

Isn't amazing how a virus can distort the views people hold?

Isn't it amazing how the world does not break down into two, simple, binary opposites just because we prefer that kind of simplicity.

 

[oldbadger]

Thats rare

Yes.......... but we know about those cases. We just have to bite the bullet.

Really? Start a thread and ask who supports forced vaccines mandates. In my opinion @ecco will be one of the first to reply among the many.

Actually, that is a possible thread.
But starting right here and now........ you don't support that... if you did you would have said so here.

Let's ask @ecco and everybody if they would support compulsory vaccination. Interesting!
1984 or what.??

 

[ADigitalArtist]

This is as silly as saying those who are for the ideological concept of freedom should be against any law making. It's a reduction to the absurd, and assumes an incredibly shallow version of 'freedom' that can only exist in maintained anarchy (itself a rule of direct democracy but that's another thread.)

Being pro-choice doesn't mean carte blanche approval of no interference on any choice and being pro-life doesn't mean making no choices which harm living things. All it means is pro or anti legalized abortion.

 

[Altfish]

Nah. It's why pro-abortion and anti-abortion are better terms.

No they are not.

I am pro-choice but not pro-abortion.
"Pro" anything suggests that you promote it. I do not promote abortion BUT I do not want it removed as a possible solution.

 

[viole]

In today's world we see...
-people who claim to be pro-life but avoid a vaccine that can save lives
And
-people who claim to be pro-choice but want forced vaccinations.

Isn't amazing how a virus can distort the views people hold?

If somebody aborts her blastocysts, chances that this will affect the health of others, or unnecessarily occupy an ICU, is nil. Therefore, your symmetry does not hold.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Unveiled Artist]

In today's world we see...
-people who claim to be pro-life but avoid a vaccine that can save lives
And
-people who claim to be pro-choice but want forced vaccinations.

Isn't amazing how a virus can distort the views people hold?

Ha. I think the exemption is it saves lives.

But then not aborting saves a life so.

 

[Kenny]

In today's world we see...
-people who claim to be pro-life but avoid a vaccine that can save lives
And
-people who claim to be pro-choice but want forced vaccinations.

Isn't amazing how a virus can distort the views people hold?

Interesting application

Not really that simple but certainly an interesting application

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No they are not.

I am pro-choice but not pro-abortion.
"Pro" anything suggests that you promote it. I do not promote abortion BUT I do not want it removed as a possible solution.

To compare, that would mean you're pro-choice for people not wanting to take the vaccine but don't support people who wish not to take it?