Pro-choice and pro-life

[9-10ths_Penguin]

In today's world we see...
-people who claim to be pro-life but avoid a vaccine that can save lives
And
-people who claim to be pro-choice but want forced vaccinations.

Isn't amazing how a virus can distort the views people hold?

Who wants forced vaccinations?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Nah. It's why pro-abortion and anti-abortion are better terms.

"Anti-abortion" isn't that great a term either. So-called "anti-abortion" people are often against many measures that would prevent abortions.

Personally, I just use "anti-choice," since it's accurate across the board.

Edit: and "pro-choice" doesn't mean "pro-abortion." Part of the pro-choice position is support for pregnant people's decision to continue the pregnancy. Forced abortion is just as anathema to the pro-choice viewpoint as forced pregnancy is.

 

[Revoltingest]

In today's world we see...
-people who claim to be pro-life but avoid a vaccine that can save lives
And
-people who claim to be pro-choice but want forced vaccinations.

Isn't amazing how a virus can distort the views people hold?

How many posters have actually advocated "forced vaccinations"?
To me this means government requiring it, with legal sanctions
if they don't. It wouldn't include an employer or business requiring
it of employees or customers (eg, eateries).

 

[Unveiled Artist]

While I'm not on board with forced vaccinations, I am on board with proof of vaccinations (or medical exceptions) for in-person classes and things like events.

I don't think this is mutually exclusive with being pro-choice in the abortion debate because context matters. Whittling down complex philosophical and ethical positions to being called "pro-choice" and "pro-life" misses a lot of nuance. I think being pro-choice is being pro-life and pro-quality of life for instance. I think supporting the encouragement of vaccines is pro-life, and it's not anti-choice in that people can choose not to vaccinate; it just doesn't necessarily mean they can do things that will put everyone else in danger in exactly the same sense that we ban smoking indoors.

Do you believe if there were no forced mandates and method of execution were better more people would vaccinate?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No. ...... Because there is NOBODY on RF that supports a forced vaccination mandate. Nobody.

NY has vax mandates and passports and support them. Those here from NY are the minority?

There are a few who wish mandates or punishment.

How did you come to that conclusion?

Mandates aren't as worse as a few RF members brought up and I hate vac mandates with passion.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

pro-life
/prōˈlīf/
adjective

1. opposing abortion and euthanasia

pro-choice
/prōˈCHois/
adjective

1. advocating legalized abortion.

I stick with what my post said.

AP uses pro-abortion rights and anti-abortion rights. Those terms are vastly more specific, they aren't loaded, they don't beat around the bush, they don't have these silly what aboutisms, and it is exactly what the position is.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They're really not, though.

I'm Pro-Choice, Anti-Abortion. I don't think anyone is really "pro-abortion". I don't think anyone's skipping to the clinic, happy to have it done. The problem with WNK's assessment is that it distorts the issues and unevenly compares them.

Yes, the "pro-life" stance is highly hypocritical. It would be more accurate to call them the "Force Birth" or "Pro-Birth" stance. The fetus's life is the only life that matters to such a stance, and only up until the moment it's born. After that, it's another parasite on the burden of their tax dollars.

"Pro-choice", on the other hand, is specific to advocating the choice of the mother-in-question. To recognize that it is her body, and her choice, in a matter that only affects her. (No, the fetus does not have a say because the fetus does not have higher brain function; abortions performed after such brain function develops are and always have been illegal with strict exception to save the life of the mother.) "Pro-choice" does not translate to "Pro-every single choice ever to be made", and is especially ill-compared to a situation in which everyone is affected by the chooser's medical negligence.

The issue isn't choice or life. It is abortion.
And I am strongly pro-abortion. That doesn't mean people are happy to have it done. I don't think anyone happily skips off to have an organ transplant, but plenty of people are very strong supporters of organ transplants amd donations.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No they are not.

I am pro-choice but not pro-abortion.
"Pro" anything suggests that you promote it. I do not promote abortion BUT I do not want it removed as a possible solution.

It really is about supporting abortion rights or being against them.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

AP uses pro-abortion rights and anti-abortion rights. Those terms are vastly more specific, they aren't loaded, they don't beat around the bush, they don't have these silly what aboutisms, and it is exactly what the position is.

With the word "rights" added, the terms seem generally accurate to me.

 

[We Never Know]

I find your answers pretty vague, and I was hoping to get more technical detail on how you got out of homelessness, but if this is all you want to share, that's fine. I just think that when I look at a homeless person, I think that him getting out of it will entail more than avoiding a steak dinner. And actually, in order to work, I need a good steak dinner: I am losing weight at my warehouse forklift job as we enter the edge of the busy holiday season. And I imagine that a homeless person could use those calories too, as he is pelted by cold snow and rain



I come pretty close to being pro-abortion. I think choice is important, but birth control is often the rational path. By bringing someone into the world, you not only are responsible for their support, but you are endowing someone with the inevitable, compelled duty to socially participate. The latter part is the tougher part. It means that a ton could wrong. And the science of parenting, social function, and mere development seem fairly tenuous, when I observe debates about them, as a member of the public. I don't want to create someone, just so that the walls close in on them in one of many ways

For me its was a long time ago and the ole world has changed much since then.

 

[pearl]

Let me give you a better example. John Doe collected enough money to feed himself for a week. But instead he says "im craving a steak dinner" and he go blows it all on one steak dinner.
Who's fault is it that John was hungry the rest of the week?

That's a very good point. Countless people complain about the cost of health insurance, dental care etc. and how unfair it is that so many receive these benefits from government programs. It is also their choice of where they spend their money, the latest fashions be it home, clothing, games, travel etc. or the dentist or doctor.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I see people holding signs on off ramps saying need food, need money while five business's in eye sight have "we are hiring signs". I actually asked one why don't you go over there and get a job. He "said it doesn't pay enough". I said it pays more than nothing and if you have time to stand here, you have time to work.

Don't use street bums and beggars as examples of the poor. Most poor people have jobs. Those beggars are typically drunks and addicts, and that's where the money tends to go.

 

[F1fan]

Ah! You think the rich, which some have worked all their life to achieve, should pay for the poor that don't want to work at all.
That explains a lot.

Yeah, it's called a compassionate and socially responsible attitude. Your disdain suggests you prefer a "survival of the fittest" approach to civilization where greed is a virtue, selfishness is justified, and let the chips fall where they may.

How does turning your back on your fellow citizens sound like a good idea? Can you defend greed and selfishness and contempt for the living?

 

[F1fan]

Here's come the "what's about Hitler" arguement again.
Why not what about Stalin, or a god, or etc.

Hey, if you want to defend trump by all means do so. Don't butter it up by saying "he wasn't all bad". But you'll open the door to all of his corruption and failure to help America deal with the pandemic.

 

[F1fan]

Do you actually think Joe is competent?
Biden is so scripted he gets lost when its not there. It wasn't long ago when he even read the script of who he should first call on to take questions from.

Biden is obviously aging, but he has done a pretty good job thus far building a government of competent people whose interest is helping the people. He's had a huge set of challenges so far, and the public has high expectations of him after a catastrophe like trump. This summer has our government very stressed, with the pandemic getting worse, schools reopening, wildfires, flooding, the Afghan evacuation, and the economy showing signs of weakening, probably due to Covid being spread like wild fire in many states. The government doesn't do magic. We citizens have an obligation to help our society, to help each other succeed. I keep hearing conservatives talk about freedom and selfishness, but I don't hear them talking about their obligation to their fellow citizens and their nation. These conservatives are the greedy who want the benefits of a society but none of the obligation to it. I hear them complain about the disadvantaged being takers but they themselves don't want to pay taxes and contribute to the society they have relied on to make money. These conservatives are the takers.

 

[We Never Know]

Yeah, it's called a compassionate and socially responsible attitude. Your disdain suggests you prefer a "survival of the fittest" approach to civilization where greed is a virtue, selfishness is justified, and let the chips fall where they may.

How does turning your back on your fellow citizens sound like a good idea? Can you defend greed and selfishness and contempt for the living?

I prefer if you want it, work for it.

 

[We Never Know]

Hey, if you want to defend trump by all means do so. Don't butter it up by saying "he wasn't all bad". But you'll open the door to all of his corruption and failure to help America deal with the pandemic.

Saying Tump want all bad isn't defending him. I don't like the guy but I dont loathe him as you do.

 

[We Never Know]

Don't use street bums and beggars as examples of the poor. Most poor people have jobs. Those beggars are typically drunks and addicts, and that's where the money tends to go.

Panhandling is a business/job to some. Some make a decent living at it. Last year in the local news there were some in OKC that made $60k yearly.

 

[F1fan]

Saying Tump want all bad isn't defending him. I don't like the guy but I dont loathe him as you do.

So you tolerate his corruption and how he led a movement that has caused severe damage to our democracy? What is there not to loathe about trump? Has anything he done suggest he can be trusted as president?

 

[F1fan]

Panhandling is a business/job to some. Some make a decent living at it. Last year in the local news there were some in OKC that made $60k yearly.

If that is the case then I doubt there's many who pull this off. From those i see panhandling they look quite dirty and troubled, and perhaps suffering from mental health issues. Our society is badly unserved where it comes to mental health. It has been defunded and insurance companies have cut benefits due to the cost. But this has only meant these citizens are dumped on streets and often end up in jails. so we the people end up paying one way or another. I suggest it's better to spend the money with direct care that will help these people. Conservatives seem to treat our fellow humans and our society as if we are just like any other animal in the wild. And then they claim to be pro-life.