Pro-choice and pro-life

[We Never Know]

So you tolerate his corruption and how he led a movement that has caused severe damage to our democracy? What is there not to loathe about trump? Has anything he done suggest he can be trusted as president?

Evidently you tolerated it too.
You chose to complain for years. I chose to set silently and watch him burn himself down.

 

[We Never Know]

If that is the case then I doubt there's many who pull this off. From those i see panhandling they look quite dirty and troubled, and perhaps suffering from mental health issues. Our society is badly unserved where it comes to mental health. It has been defunded and insurance companies have cut benefits due to the cost. But this has only meant these citizens are dumped on streets and often end up in jails. so we the people end up paying one way or another. I suggest it's better to spend the money with direct care that will help these people. Conservatives seem to treat our fellow humans and our society as if we are just like any other animal in the wild. And then they claim to be pro-life.

They aren't going to stand there in a suit and tie looking all groomed up for Friday night out.

Panhandling Experiment by Recent Grad Makes Headlines

 

[F1fan]

Evidently you tolerated it too.
You chose to complain for years. I chose to set silently and watch him burn himself down.

No, I supported the impeachments. I complained because trump's corruption gave reasonable people reason to be disgusted. Decent Americans had to wait four years for trump to be removed, and even that he tried to prevent. That he never acknowledged that he lost is yet another reason we can't trust this conman in any way. If you think his lack of ethics is acceptable then you have low ethical standards as well.

 

[F1fan]

They aren't going to stand there in a suit and tie looking all groomed up for Friday night out.

Panhandling Experiment by Recent Grad Makes Headlines

Especially when they don't have suits. Your narrow and naive characterization of these people has been noted by numerous people.

 

[We Never Know]

No, I supported the impeachments. I complained because trump's corruption gave reasonable people reason to be disgusted. Decent Americans had to wait four years for trump to be removed, and even that he tried to prevent. That he never acknowledged that he lost is yet another reason we can't trust this conman in any way. If you think his lack of ethics is acceptable then you have low ethical standards as well.

"I supported the impeachments"

Which was a waste if time and money being they knew they would not get the votes needed but tried it anyway, twice.

Just recentley the repubs were asked about removing Biden from office. Mitcth said it would be pointless to try right now. And it would be because they wouldn't get the votes.

 

[We Never Know]

Especially when they don't have suits. Your narrow and naive characterization of these people has been noted by numerous people.

You need to get out more. A few years back one was secretly followed by a news person after panhandling for several hours. He walked 8 blocks and got into a truck that was near new and drove away.

 

[We Never Know]

Don't use street bums and beggars as examples of the poor. Most poor people have jobs. Those beggars are typically drunks and addicts, and that's where the money tends to go.

5 years ago I was in Tulsa's and had to run to Walmart. It set at one side of a shopping center and when I turned into the drive there was a person there holding a sign that said "haven't ate in days, need money for food"

While in walmart in picked up a loaf of bread, some deli meat, some chips, some bottled water, lettuce, and mayo. As I was leaving I stopped by them and handed the bags out the window to them.

Whats that they replied. I said food.
They said i dont want food i want money.
I said take it of leave it. They said take your food and leave, you're blocking my lane.

I realize not all are that way but also realize some are.

 

[We Never Know]

Especially when they don't have suits. Your narrow and naive characterization of these people has been noted by numerous people.

$50,000 cash a year: Inside the lucrative lives on Charlotte panhandlers | wcnc.com

Panhandling but not penniless: 'Fake' panhandler sparks debate | abc13.com

https://www-kcra-com.cdn.ampproject...an-hour-panhandling-with-their-kids-2/5924123

 

[oldbadger]

NY has vax mandates and passports and support them. Those here from NY are the minority?

There are a few who wish mandates or punishment.

How did you come to that conclusion?

Mandates aren't as worse as a few RF members brought up and I hate vac mandates with passion.

Easy
There are no Vax mandates in any country that I know of and that includes yours.

A Vax mandates means compulsory vaxxing, nothing to do with Vax passports.

 

[Altfish]

To compare, that would mean you're pro-choice for people not wanting to take the vaccine but don't support people who wish not to take it?

No, that is you using the word 'pro' arbitrarily.

If people don't want to have the vaccine fine ... I don't agree with them. I also support vaccine passports for events

 

[Altfish]

It really is about supporting abortion rights or being against them.

Yes, but that doesn't mean I think abortions are good or are to be promoted.

 

[F1fan]

"I supported the impeachments"

Which was a waste if time and money being they knew they would not get the votes needed but tried it anyway, twice.

A waste of time and money was republicans supporting trump as a candidate when he was clearly unfit and corrupt. It was predicted that he would face impeachment eventually. That trump was so corrupt that the House impeached him twice was part of the duties of congress to remove a president who is unfit for office. The senate should have removed him, but as we see the GOP is more and more an unethical political party that has little interest is good governance. And for that I blame conservative voters who don't have a good sense of ethics and the purpose of government. The dysfunction of government can be tied to republicans who think government SHOULDN'T function. republicans want jobs in government, just not the duties and responsibilities that comes with it.

Just recentley the repubs were asked about removing Biden from office. Mitcth said it would be pointless to try right now. And it would be because they wouldn't get the votes.

Biden hasn't done anything that warrants impeachment. These republicans are playing grievance politics and trying to destroy the fabric of our government. Tear down the government and chaos ensues.

 

[F1fan]

$50,000 cash a year: Inside the lucrative lives on Charlotte panhandlers | wcnc.com

Panhandling but not penniless: 'Fake' panhandler sparks debate | abc13.com

https://www-kcra-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.kcra.com/amp/article/police-say-sacramento-couple-make-180-an-hour-panhandling-with-their-kids-2/5924123?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw==#aoh=16310344638550&referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.kcra.com/article/police-say-sacramento-couple-make-180-an-hour-panhandling-with-their-kids-2/5924123

You're picking select anomalies. These don't represent all panhandlers.

 

[We Never Know]

You're picking select anomalies. These don't represent all panhandlers.

I never said it did. As i said several times now, "some" make a good living at it

 

[F1fan]

I never said it did. As i said several times now, "some" make a good living at it

And citing a select few doesn't mean anything to the issue of panhandlers dealing with mental health issues, or homelessness, or illness, or drug use, or some other issues that prevent them from being part of the normal social participation that you seem to think everyone must do. Not everyone has the health or advantages to fall into the status quo middle class life. I keep hearing conservatives say that people in need should pull up their boot straps, but ignore these people don't have boots.

 

[We Never Know]

And citing a select few doesn't mean anything to the issue of panhandlers dealing with mental health issues, or homelessness, or illness, or drug use, or some other issues that prevent them from being part of the normal social participation that you seem to think everyone must do. Not everyone has the health or advantages to fall into the status quo middle class life. I keep hearing conservatives say that people in need should pull up their boot straps, but ignore these people don't have boots.

There are more than a few that make a good living at it. I gave you a few as examples.
You can research it more or choose not to believe it. The choice is yours. I myself choose to stop wasting time with someone who thinks somethings don't happen because they believe they don't.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

5 years ago I was in Tulsa's and had to run to Walmart. It set at one side of a shopping center and when I turned into the drive there was a person there holding a sign that said "haven't ate in days, need money for food"

While in walmart in picked up a loaf of bread, some deli meat, some chips, some bottled water, lettuce, and mayo. As I was leaving I stopped by them and handed the bags out the window to them.

Whats that they replied. I said food.
They said i dont want food i want money.
I said take it of leave it. They said take your food and leave, you're blocking my lane.

I realize not all are that way but also realize some are.

Like I said, it's because they use that money to buy drugs and alcohol. Any truly down and out person knows where the sandwich lines and pantries are. There's no excuse for going days without food in the US, so that was an obvious lie. I never give money or anything else to those people. I would respect them more of they were just honest and say "I just need a beer/a fix".

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Easy
There are no Vax mandates in any country that I know of and that includes yours.

A Vax mandates means compulsory vaxxing, nothing to do with Vax passports.

I'm not making this up:

New York State Announces COVID-19 Vaccination Mandate for Healthcare Workers | Law and the Workplace

They don't have public mandates so far I know. I'd have to check later. But mind as well. Nonvax literally can't do much anything. Same effect legally mandated or not. Our state VA mandate state and federal workers to vax. But thank goodness our soon elected governors won't make it public mandate.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

Like I said, it's because they use that money to buy drugs and alcohol. Any truly down and out person knows where the sandwich lines and pantries are. There's no excuse for going days without food in the US, so that was an obvious lie. I never give money or anything else to those people. I would respect them more of they were just honest and say "I just need a beer/a fix".

No. The vast majority use the money to buy food. Many won’t pay for a room rental, because they would rather have money for food if the next day is bad (poor earnings).
Some do use for drugs/alcohol, but they are a minority of cases. The majority get less than $10,000 per year, while panhandling 7 days/week.

Research letter: Income and spending patterns among panhandlers

23 Amazing Panhandling Statistics

we can debate such things once we all have the facts. But I would point out that this thread was supposed to be about pro-choice vs government control of women’s bodies/lives.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

In today's world we see...
-people who claim to be pro-life but avoid a vaccine that can save lives
And
-people who claim to be pro-choice but want forced vaccinations.

Isn't amazing how a virus can distort the views people hold?

The problem is in the terminology. The opposite of "pro-life" does not actually happen to be "pro-choice." In fact, it is not only possible but incredibly easy to be both pro-life and pro-choice at the same time.

Wanting people to get vaccinated, is, in fact, very much pro-life -- it keeps more people alive than any other option. Being pro-choice, in this instance, is a guarantee that more people will die. A guarantee!

But I won't "force" vaccinations, because people do and must have the right to choose. One hopes they will choose wisely, based on good information, but unfortunately, far too many fall prey to the absolute nonsense of the disinformation on the internet.

Still, I have no issue with the idea of vaccination passports, that allow only those who have been vaccinated into situations (restaurants, bars, concerts, crowded spaces) where spread of virus is so much easier.

I allow restaurants to refuse service to customers with "no shoes, no shirts," for example. You are free to choose not to wear shoes or shirts, but nothings says that the restaurateur trying to entertain his clientele has to allow you to make the atmosphere toxic. You are free to choose not to get vaccinated, but the arena isn't required to let you in to cheer and spread whatever your wet lungs aerosolize out of you, to spread to the people around you.

I am pro-life, and I do not like abortion. However, I recognize a few facts:

• No matter how much I like life, I can't ensure every pregnancy comes to term (and you'd be surprised how many do not)
• A zygote, an embryo, an incomplete fetus, do not "know" they are alive, and cannot miss not having life -- no more than those quarter billion sperm that never find an egg, nor the million eggs a female is born with (only 300-400 will ever even have a chance at being fertilized)
• That many births result in unwanted children, and millions of them live in misery around the world, for all sorts of reasons
• That many "pro-lifers" wouldn't consider adopting one of those unwanted children if their life depended on it
• That it is true that sometimes pregnancy is caused by a rape, or even worse, by rape by a relative, and forcing a vulnerable girl to carry that to term is just further punishment for a crime she didn't commit -- but must pay for

You can "un-distort" your views by being more careful about how you label things. Being a supporter of Boy Scouts doesn't mean being an enemy of Girl Guides. Make your comparisons meaningful.