Proof of evolution -at last-

[ppp]

View attachment 61442 Proof that God exists

Maybe one day you will experience God too like myself and many others throughout history.

None of that is even vaguely evidence that you know or are capable of knowing what you claim.

 

[ElishaElijah]

None of that is even vaguely evidence that you know or are capable of knowing what you claim.

Did you bother looking at the case studies? Probably not, the references are all in the article. So many recorded events the truly unbelievable part is your denial of the obvious.
What I claim is my own experience and healing, my own eyewitness account.

 

[ppp]

Did you bother looking at the case studies? Probably not, the references are all in the article. So many recorded events the truly unbelievable part is your denial of the obvious.
What I claim is my own experience and healing, my own eyewitness account.

I looked at the first four. That was more than enough to see that you were presenting testimony, not evidence.

• Healing Miracles - Even if you managed to somehow document the instant regrowth of amputated arms, how do you plan to demonstrate that your god was the cause of unexplained event?
• Visions of Jesus/Heaven - People having visions? Seriously? No.
• Angel experiences - more visions; and you are trying to prove something you cannot demonstrate (your god) with something else that you cannot demonstrate (angles).

Mere testimony is not sufficient to be foundational evidence.

 

[YoursTrue]

This is NOT a coherent assertion based on a an ancient religious agenda WITHOUT scientific references.

Let's just say you're right. So where are the in-betweens? Do you understand what I mean by in-between? In other words, were there in-betweens that somehow disappeared? You know, like that 1.6% difference moving upward to human? If again you don't understand, or it's incoherent, do let me know. Thanks.

 

[YoursTrue]

No, I am uncertain what I'm supposedly 'dodging'... Could you clarify what post you're referring?

What if I'm not dodging at all, are you sure I'm not simply sliding about from all this slippery oil? Why am I oily? I'd rather not discuss that.

My post was to address users requesting evidence to something that we all know is unfalsifiable using the scientific model, when they demand of another user, that he prove God's existence outside his imagination through the scientific/empirical method.
I responded with a couple examples of the faultiness of perception, and the possibility of imagination being indistinguishable from reality...

Unless you're addressing something I said in posts previous to these events...?

I have noticed that shunydragon does not provide "evidence" of his refusals but rather just tells others how stupid, dumb and uneducated they are if they do not promote his agenda or theory. (My words - stupid, dumb. Ignorant is his terminology of his opponents.) It's almost kind of fun talking to him. (Hi, @shunyadragon !! )

 

[YoursTrue]

First, you are avoiding what is objective in the nature of our physical existence, and the nature of evidence. Your assertions of what is opinion and the 'subjective' is so meaninglessly circular it is hard to respond to,

Since the subject of the thread is the science of evolution we are NOT dealing with 'opinons and subjective everyone can believe what they want to believe and everyone can be right.

Airplanes would not fly and computers would not work if science only amounted to 'opinion,'

Yes, the Bible is an edited, compiled and redates assortment pf ancient documents without original texts. and mostly without known authors, IT is subject to diverse, conflicting and contradictory beliefs where believers of one ilk or another consider everyone else wrong ecept their own 'subjective opinion.' Nonetheless the scripture does reflect the well documented and reasonably objective in terms of the social anthropology of tribal cultures and their beliefs at the time and like all ancient religions it is of little or no reference to today's world

Please respond coherently as to what is 'objective. and subjective in clear English.

Again and again . . . the subject is evolution.

Oh, and another put-down of yours is calling responses that disagree with you as incoherent. Which you unfortunately, with all due respect, sir, do not demonstrate (coherence, that is).

 

[YoursTrue]

Empty assertions are hilarious!

It's actually not an empty assertion, just as it was not an empty assertion when Jesus spoke of the endtimes. Now then the atomic bomb was invented several decades ago -- threatens mass destruction -- people are a little scared about this -- I have faith that God will fulfill His promises of a new heavens and new earth -- Revelation 21:1-5. But you know, after Jesus' death, the historical evidence is that Jerusalem was overtaken by the Romans and many Jews were taken into captivity. Now we are talking about evolution, aren't we? And I have asserted that according to the theory death is eventual outcome anyway.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I looked at the first four. That was more than enough to see that you were presenting testimony, not evidence.

• Healing Miracles - Even if you managed to somehow document the instant regrowth of amputated arms, how do you plan to demonstrate that your god was the cause of unexplained event?
• Visions of Jesus/Heaven - People having visions? Seriously? No.
• Angel experiences - more visions; and you are trying to prove something you cannot demonstrate (your god) with something else that you cannot demonstrate (angles).

Mere testimony is not sufficient to be foundational evidence.

The case studies from Doctors? Did you look at those?
If all this isn’t enough for you then how can you believe some experiment or science test done today that speculates what the atmosphere was billions of years ago when in your view there was no observation of these events by anyone?
What I mean by that is God has always been and He told us how Creation happened and the world we live in bears witness to this as well as world events that have been foretold.
Also, I give you my personal testimony and whether you believe that or not is up to you. You don’t know me, so you can’t say either way. Same with the testimonies in Scripture, I know they’re true because my relationship with God is the same as those in Scripture, the same things God did then He is doing now, even though I didn’t witness them personally, I have the Holy Spirit bearing witness as well.

 

[ppp]

The case studies from Doctors? Did you look at those?

There is no instrument for measuring god.

If all this isn’t enough for you then how can you believe some experiment or science test done today that speculates what the atmosphere was billions of years ago when in your view there was no observation of these events by anyone?

Well, foundationally and most important...we have testable, empirical evidence that there is such a thing as atmosphere. When you can provide the same quality of evidence for the existence of a god, then I will accept your comparison.

Also, I give you my personal testimony and whether you believe that or not is up to you.

I don't believe any existential claim solely on the basis of personal testimony. It's a terrible foundation to start with.

 

[ElishaElijah]

There is no instrument for measuring god.

The Holy Spirit is the way to test and know God.

Well, foundationally and most important...we have testable, empirical evidence that there is such a thing as atmosphere. When you can provide the same quality of evidence for the existence of a god, then I will accept your comparison.

That wasn’t the comparison or the example I used, science says things happened billions of years ago and makes assumptions that they can’t prove at all yet seems you believe these theories as fact, you don’t know anything billions of years ago. You can only speculate.

 

[ppp]

The Holy Spirit is the way to test and know God.

and you are trying to prove something you cannot demonstrate (your god) with something else that you cannot demonstrate (holy spirit).

That wasn’t the comparison or the example I used

The atmosphere has been demonstrated to exist using empirical evidence.
Your god has not been demonstrated to exist using empirical evidence.

When you can demonstrate your god using empirical evidence, then we can compare the methods of discovering what the atmosphere was like in the past to the methods of discovering what God was like in the past.

Until then, I reject your comparison.

 

[ElishaElijah]

and you are trying to prove something you cannot demonstrate (your god) with something else that you cannot demonstrate (holy spirit).

If I have an electric meter and tell you I measured the voltage at 240V and you don’t have a meter or know what it is to measure voltage, how you going to know for yourself unless you get the proper meter?
How are you going to test something spiritual? I can because I have the Holy Spirit.
You can’t because you don’t, but seems you’re dismissing based on your lack of the proper testing equipment. You even said that you don’t have a test for God yet you say there is no God.
Same as trying to test electrical with a plunger.

 

[ppp]

If I have an electric meter and tell you I measured the voltage at 240V and you don’t have a meter or know what it is to measure voltage, how you going to know for yourself unless you get the proper meter?

I can run my dryer with it. Or set a fire. Or go thru the same process as the people who invented the first Ammeter around 200 years ago.

How are you going to test something spiritual? I can because I have the Holy Spirit.

So you claim. But as I have said, and will continue to say - I have no reason to believe that you know, or are capable of knowing what you claim.

You can’t because you don’t, but seems you’re dismissing based on your lack of the proper testing equipment. You even said that you don’t have a test for God yet you say there is no God.

There are plenty of people and animals who have perceptions that I lack, and they can demonstrate that they have those perceptions and are perceiving something real. You cannot.

You are basically in position of telling me that you are the reincarnation of Napoleon Bonaparte, Emperor of France. And then telling me that since I cannot test it, that I ought to accept your word that it is true. Only in this case, instead of being Napoleon, you are claiming that you have a sense of him.

 

[gnostic]

There is no instrument for measuring god.

The Holy Spirit is the way to test and know God.

There are no ways to test the Holy Spirit.

There are also no devices that can detect, measure or test the following: angels, demons, jinns, fairies, ghouls and goblins, etc.

In sciences, natural sciences or physical sciences (I am leaving out social sciences, here), evidence are something “physical” that can be observed.

When we talk of observations in sciences, we aren’t just referring to what we can directly see, hear, touch or smell with our sensory perception (eg eyes, ears, nose, etc). We often relied on some sorts of devices, instruments or equipment that can do observations for us, where the limitations of our eyesight, hearing and touch are limited and not enough.

To give you an example, radio waves.

We cannot directly observe radio waves through our eyesight, but we can use devices that can observe them, that can use a antenna and a radio receiver, together, that can measure frequencies and wavelength of radio waves.

Not only that, radio waves or radio signals have many applications, because they popularly can transmit audio or audiovisual through broadcasting stations, that use much more powerful antennas and radio transmitters, while we (consumers) have devices like radio or television that can receive these radio signals, in which we can listen to music or talk show on the radio or watch and listen movies or tv shows that were aired by the broadcasting stations. Other applications for radio waves include mobile phones, or wi-fi networking in computers, and those huge satellite dishes are called radio telescopes that are use to observe distant stars or galaxies or detect other astronomical phenomena, used in radio astronomy.

What instrument or device will you detect, measure and test the Holy Spirit, ElishaElijah?

I don’t think you have any idea what “test” in sciences mean.

 

[ElishaElijah]

What instrument or device will you detect, measure and test the Holy Spirit, ElishaElijah?

I don’t think you have any idea what “test” in sciences mean.

The test for the Holy Spirit is whether or not you trust Jesus as your Lord, trust the Scriptures as the Word of God. Test the fruit:
“I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16-26‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Also, once a person is born again and has the Holy Spirit, they can expel demons by the power of God, in the name of Jesus Christ, they come out of that person and are free.

 

[gnostic]

The test for the Holy Spirit is whether or not you trust Jesus as your Lord, trust the Scriptures as the Word of God.

That’s call “FAITH”.

Faith isn’t evidence, faith is “acceptance” or “trust” in belief, and you cannot detect, quantify, measure or test faith.

You are avoiding my question, how do detect and measure the Holy Spirit? Can you devices or instrument to observe the Holy Spirit?

 

[YoursTrue]

This is NOT a coherent assertion based on a an ancient religious agenda WITHOUT scientific references.

OK, let's say it's not coherent to you. So here's another question:
Hopefully you understand this better:
What happened to the small difference between gorillas and humans? Or bonobos and humans -- why do you think or imagine there is a marked difference, albeit slight, between bonobos, gorillas, and humans? Hmm? Did it get lost? Please do answer cogently. (Coherently.) Thanks. With facts. thanks again.
"Bonobos share about 98.7% of their DNA with humans, roughly just as much as with the chimpanzee, but a small bit of our DNA, about 1.6%, is shared with only the bonobo, but not chimpanzees. Ongoing debates might also be settled by the new data." https://www.google.com/search?q=1.6%+difference+bonobos+and+humans&rlz=1CAIGZW_enUS998&oq=1.6%+difference+bonobos+and+humans&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i22i29i30.10267j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[YoursTrue]

First, you are avoiding what is objective in the nature of our physical existence, and the nature of evidence. Your assertions of what is opinion and the 'subjective' is so meaninglessly circular it is hard to respond to,

Since the subject of the thread is the science of evolution we are NOT dealing with 'opinons and subjective everyone can believe what they want to believe and everyone can be right.

Airplanes would not fly and computers would not work if science only amounted to 'opinion,'

Yes, the Bible is an edited, compiled and redates assortment pf ancient documents without original texts. and mostly without known authors, IT is subject to diverse, conflicting and contradictory beliefs where believers of one ilk or another consider everyone else wrong ecept their own 'subjective opinion.' Nonetheless the scripture does reflect the well documented and reasonably objective in terms of the social anthropology of tribal cultures and their beliefs at the time and like all ancient religions it is of little or no reference to today's world

Please respond coherently as to what is 'objective. and subjective in clear English.

Again and again . . . the subject is evolution.

In reference to your reply to @Mark Charles Compton, you assert that "airplanes would not fly" if science amounted to opinion. I hope you are not comparing this with the theory of evolution. One cannot wish planes to fly, even if opinion about the mechanics were true. Science tests assertions and opinions. Science about airplanes anyway.

 

[YoursTrue]

First, you are avoiding what is objective in the nature of our physical existence, and the nature of evidence. Your assertions of what is opinion and the 'subjective' is so meaninglessly circular it is hard to respond to,

Since the subject of the thread is the science of evolution we are NOT dealing with 'opinons and subjective everyone can believe what they want to believe and everyone can be right.

Airplanes would not fly and computers would not work if science only amounted to 'opinion,'

Yes, the Bible is an edited, compiled and redates assortment pf ancient documents without original texts. and mostly without known authors, IT is subject to diverse, conflicting and contradictory beliefs where believers of one ilk or another consider everyone else wrong ecept their own 'subjective opinion.' Nonetheless the scripture does reflect the well documented and reasonably objective in terms of the social anthropology of tribal cultures and their beliefs at the time and like all ancient religions it is of little or no reference to today's world

Please respond coherently as to what is 'objective. and subjective in clear English.

Again and again . . . the subject is evolution.

There ARE no "original" texts or specimens in the theory of evolution. In fact, it is all conjectural opinion when it comes to the first little molecules, etc. that supposedly burgeoned out to become more. I'm waiting... (By natural selection, of course.)

 

[ElishaElijah]

That’s call “FAITH”.

Faith isn’t evidence, faith is “acceptance” or “trust” in belief, and you cannot detect, quantify, measure or test faith.

You are avoiding my question, how do detect and measure the Holy Spirit? Can you devices or instrument to observe the Holy Spirit?

I told you the way to test if someone has been born of the Holy Spirit. A device to test the Spirit of God? There isn’t a device that man can make or build it does take faith/ trust before you get your proof and that’s how you obtain the Holy Spirit.

You have to step into the water before it parts so you can walk across the sea. You’re standing in the shore and saying, I want to see the water part first before I walk in. God doesn’t work that way and that’s why you can’t see Him.

“But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬