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Proof of evolution -at last-

Mark Charles Compton

Pineal Peruser
Empty assertions are hilarious!

I could attempt to represent @ElishaElijah 's position regarding your requirement of his evidence with this proposal...
(Please ignore that the following is a theorem strictly for use in mathematics, as I am unaware if a similar theory exists for philosophy or the likes.)

It would seem he is using a Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem kind of method:
If we accept "Strong's Expansive Concordance of the Bible" as his 'axioms of proof'.
He uses those 'proofs' as a foundation to support the translation he/scholars derive from the scriptures.

You picking up what I'm throwing down?

P.S. Hmm.... I wonder if mathematics is more relatable to theology than natural science? My question arises because infinities have yet to be observed in the natural world, yet within theology and ¹mathematics you hear of deities being represented with infinities fairly regularly. :shrug:

¹'and mathematics' added for clarity
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
lol -- so here's another answer for you so you can call me ignorant of genetics and gaps, ok?
1.6% separates human genes from gorillas | BioTechSquad.
And lookie, lookie at the picture. So cute! A human mother might take home a little baby gorilla.
So close genetically, yet so far -- maybe -- in your mind, or maybe not. If only that 1.6% could be found, my oh my isn't that something. Gap? No gap? Difference? Not much difference? Aside from calling me ignorant, what do YOU think? Gap? Or no gap. Somehow something just can't be found -- yet. :)

This is NOT a coherent assertion based on a an ancient religious agenda WITHOUT scientific references.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
I see. So, in your subjective opinion: When I observe that everyone has a subjective opinion, and that opinion tends towards what they believe is right for them. This is a subjective observation?

Everything is Mental.

Is the objective to subjugate everyone to the same opinion of the subject? I prefer diversity.

First, you are avoiding what is objective in the nature of our physical existence, and the nature of evidence. Your assertions of what is opinion and the 'subjective' is so meaninglessly circular it is hard to respond to,

Since the subject of the thread is the science of evolution we are NOT dealing with 'opinons and subjective everyone can believe what they want to believe and everyone can be right.

Airplanes would not fly and computers would not work if science only amounted to 'opinion,'

Yes, the Bible is an edited, compiled and redates assortment pf ancient documents without original texts. and mostly without known authors, IT is subject to diverse, conflicting and contradictory beliefs where believers of one ilk or another consider everyone else wrong ecept their own 'subjective opinion.' Nonetheless the scripture does reflect the well documented and reasonably objective in terms of the social anthropology of tribal cultures and their beliefs at the time and like all ancient religions it is of little or no reference to today's world

Please respond coherently as to what is 'objective. and subjective in clear English.

Again and again . . . the subject is evolution.
 
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SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
lol -- so here's another answer for you so you can call me ignorant of genetics and gaps, ok?
1.6% separates human genes from gorillas | BioTechSquad.
And lookie, lookie at the picture. So cute! A human mother might take home a little baby gorilla.
So close genetically, yet so far -- maybe -- in your mind, or maybe not. If only that 1.6% could be found, my oh my isn't that something. Gap? No gap? Difference? Not much difference? Aside from calling me ignorant, what do YOU think? Gap? Or no gap. Somehow something just can't be found -- yet. :)
What point are you trying to make with this "gap" business?
All you are demonstrating is how closely related we are to the other apes, though I don't think you realize it.
 
Cool cop out.

YOU: The Bible is Reliable and tested...


Then surely you provide links to these tests?

And you never did.
You did, both of your examples happened, the biblical account is true and reliable. The Genesis account is just how we observe life today, night and day, fish and animals, seed for planting, water for plants. Prophecy fulfilled in Daniel even today, Ezekiel prophecy of God gathering Israel after they were scattered fulfilled in 1948 when they became a nation.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
You did, both of your examples happened, the biblical account is true and reliable. The Genesis account is just how we observe life today, night and day, fish and animals, seed for planting, water for plants. Prophecy fulfilled in Daniel even today, Ezekiel prophecy of God gathering Israel after they were scattered fulfilled in 1948 when they became a nation.
No, it isn't.


CH801: Order of events in Genesis

Human beings created Israel as far as I can see. Not any God(s). That's called a "self-fulfilling prophecy," which is to say, not an actual prophecy.
 
YOU: The Bible is Reliable and tested...
ME: Then surely you provide links to these tests?
YOU: Was this a good thing?

Hilarious - apologetics in action.
You:Then surely you provide links to these tests?

Is the mustard seed really the smallest?

Bashing the heads of infants on rocks and ripping up fetuses in utero because their parents did not worship the correct way is a good thing?
Me: Answers those questions and asked you about that?
You: Must’ve forgot your own comment
Me and you: Hilarious
 

Mark Charles Compton

Pineal Peruser
True, but the misuse of this vague 'subjective' analogy is meaningless dodge in your failure to respond coherently.

Please try and not be so slippery in your responses.

No, I am uncertain what I'm supposedly 'dodging'... Could you clarify what post you're referring?

What if I'm not dodging at all, are you sure I'm not simply sliding about from all this slippery oil? Why am I oily? I'd rather not discuss that.

My post was to address users requesting evidence to something that we all know is unfalsifiable using the scientific model, when they demand of another user, that he prove God's existence outside his imagination through the scientific/empirical method.
I responded with a couple examples of the faultiness of perception, and the possibility of imagination being indistinguishable from reality...

Unless you're addressing something I said in posts previous to these events...?
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
I could attempt to represent @ElishaElijah 's position regarding your requirement of his evidence with this proposal...
I'd prefer that she support her own assertions rather than hide behind someone else.
(Please ignore that the following is a theorem strictly for use in mathematics, as I am unaware if a similar theory exists for philosophy or the likes.)

It would seem he is using a Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem kind of method:
If we accept "Strong's Expansive Concordance of the Bible" as his 'axioms of proof'.
He uses those 'proofs' as a foundation to support the translation he/scholars derive from the scriptures.

You picking up what I'm throwing down?

P.S. Hmm.... I wonder if mathematics is more relatable to theology than natural science? My question arises because infinities have yet to be observed in the natural world, yet within theology and ¹mathematics you hear of deities being represented with infinities fairly regularly. :shrug:

¹'and mathematics' added for clarity
I do not accept Strong's as relevant. I've seen many debunkings/warnings about using his works - from biblical literalists.

I guess you are out of luck and will have to come up with actual evidence.
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
You did, both of your examples happened
How does a parable "happen"?
, the biblical account is true and reliable. The Genesis account is just how we observe life today, night and day, fish and animals, seed for planting, water for plants. Prophecy fulfilled in Daniel even today, Ezekiel prophecy of God gathering Israel after they were scattered fulfilled in 1948 when they became a nation.
Sad and desperate.
NEXT.
 

Astrophile

Active Member
I recently posted a commentary titled "Darwin's Illusion".
Since I spoke more or less extemperaneously my comments reflected my sentiments rather than having the aspiration to be scientifically accurate in every way.

However, considering the small flood of "evidence" against my deliberations it seems I have to recant in shame and dishonor.

Thanks for the many comments that made clear to me that not being a biologist or a scientist of any description, and questioning the infallible opinions of scientists is a serious lack of diffidence.

Thus I apologise for having the audacity to doubt, even question, the holy grail of evolution and its prophet without having the necessary education and accreditation.

Additionally, I realise now how impious of me not to be content with the undeniable truth -as many replies pointed out- consisting of at least 30.000 to 6 millions textual proof for evolution.

I see now, how lacking the necessary humility compeled me to ask for an example of evidence, and understand clearly why no one was willing to offer such evidence, since I obviously would not have understood it, but also I should have realised the need to unquestionably follow the majority in the face of such grandiose and uncontestable truths.

Wait!
there was one commentator that obviously took pity with my dismal ignorance.
He boldly (boldly because he stand alone in this endeavor) offered a solid source of evidence concerning the discoverie of Archaeopteryx, a transition from dinosaurs to birds. The akward fact that this example was made redundant by a group of critiks who declared it a fraud is compensated by the fact that another more enlightend group contested this judgement.

Comments such as ...

"It astonishes me how anyone not living under a rock can be unaware of such a well supported, obvious, easily tested mechanism".
"Creationists, that have no clue when it comes to the sciences, do not count. You are listening to liars and idiots".
"Scientists have provided more than enough evidence for evolution".
"I think we have shown your ignorance about the matter and irrationality in discussing it that there is no chance your ideas will be taken serious by anyone".
"all papers support the core ideas, and thus confirm it, and no data contradicts it".
You have to prove that evolution is wrong, evolution is true, so it doesn't have to prove anything (my interpretation of this last comments).

...have really made me see the light.
(my apologies for not including more similar and encouraging comments)

I understand now that I lacked reasoning power by proudly assuming that the onus of proof laid with scientist when in reality I was the one having to prove that evolution did not take place.

In the face of such an avalanche of "belief there is proof" and emotion for the support of evolution as for Darwin elegant launch to deconstruct the belief in a creator, I see no alternative but to bend to the wisdom of the multitude.
The masses might have been wrong during the flood, but it's just a myth, in real life the majority is always right, right?

Your many comments made me appreciate the need to revaluate my allegiance and switch to unquestionably follow the teachings of scientists since they are so much smarter and educated than me. Judging by your comments dare I say even yourselves ?

The question I pose myself now is, should I follow science as a substitute for religion ?
Should I leave the narrow road I've been indoctrinated to walk on or rather follow the broad road with the rest of mainstream humanity?

Or alternatively, should I wait until evolution becomes actually a real science rather ...
than (as one -pro evolution- comment puts it)
"an imaginative theory that many choose to accept at face value regardless of evidence against it" ?

Difficult question indeed.

The questions in my mind are how much of the evidence for evolution (e.g. comparative anatomy, genetics, embryology, biogeography, and paleontology) have you studied, how much you understand of this evidence and the evolutionary theory that explains it, what alternative to evolution you are proposing, and what evidence you have to support this alternative. If you can answer these questions, we may be able to have a rational discussion.
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
You:Then surely you provide links to these tests?

Is the mustard seed really the smallest?

Bashing the heads of infants on rocks and ripping up fetuses in utero because their parents did not worship the correct way is a good thing?
Me: Answers those questions and asked you about that?
You never answered, you asked ME if those were claimed to be 'good things',
You: Must’ve forgot your own comment
Me and you: Hilarious
Boring...

You have a hard time keeping things straight, so let me cast some pearls before swine...then I see no reason to continue - you make assertions that you 'support' with more assertions. Standard religious antics.


YOU:
The Bible is Reliable and tested...

ME:
Then surely you provide links to these tests?

Is the mustard seed really the smallest?

Bashing the heads of infants on rocks and ripping up fetuses in utero because their parents did not worship the correct way is a good thing?


YOU: Did this happen? Was it said to be a good thing?

ME:
Hosea 13:16
King James Version

16 Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.


I've seen bible-types try to rescue this by claiming it is mere "prophesy" - if that is so, then it is failed prophesy.

I've also seen them claim this is out of context (it isn't).

I've also seen them try to justify it with 'they deserved it' or (paraphrasing) 'God did it so it is OK.'


YOU:
How does this disprove the Bible, if the record is true then it’s true.
]
And you never demonstrated the 'record was true', but you accept the head-bashings of infants and the slaughter of fetuses as having occurred solely because it is in the bible. Circular reasoning is amazing!


YOU:
Did this happen? Was it said to be a good thing?

ME:
YOU: The Bible is Reliable and tested...
ME: Then surely you provide links to these tests?
YOU: Was this a good thing?
Hilarious - apologetics in action.​
YOU:
Apparently the mustard seed that Jesus was referencing was the smallest seed that the people he was talking in that part of the world would’ve planted at the time.

ME:
Oh, I see.

So it was NOT true.

Or are you saying that Jesus' teachings only applied to those living in his neighborhood?


YOU:
Not exactly, the parable is a teaching for those he was talking to, the principle of that parable communicates a spiritual truth for everyone.

ME:
Cool cop out.

YOU: The Bible is Reliable and tested...


Then surely you provide links to these tests?

And you never did.​
 
You never answered, you asked ME if those were claimed to be 'good things',
Boring...

You have a hard time keeping things straight, so let me cast some pearls before swine...then I see no reason to continue - you make assertions that you 'support' with more assertions. Standard religious antics.


YOU:
The Bible is Reliable and tested...

ME:
Then surely you provide links to these tests?

Is the mustard seed really the smallest?

Bashing the heads of infants on rocks and ripping up fetuses in utero because their parents did not worship the correct way is a good thing?


YOU: Did this happen? Was it said to be a good thing?

ME:
Hosea 13:16
King James Version

16 Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.


I've seen bible-types try to rescue this by claiming it is mere "prophesy" - if that is so, then it is failed prophesy.

I've also seen them claim this is out of context (it isn't).

I've also seen them try to justify it with 'they deserved it' or (paraphrasing) 'God did it so it is OK.'


YOU:
How does this disprove the Bible, if the record is true then it’s true.
]
And you never demonstrated the 'record was true', but you accept the head-bashings of infants and the slaughter of fetuses as having occurred solely because it is in the bible. Circular reasoning is amazing!

YOU:
Did this happen? Was it said to be a good thing?

ME:
YOU: The Bible is Reliable and tested...
ME: Then surely you provide links to these tests?
YOU: Was this a good thing?
Hilarious - apologetics in action.​
YOU:
Apparently the mustard seed that Jesus was referencing was the smallest seed that the people he was talking in that part of the world would’ve planted at the time.

ME:
Oh, I see.

So it was NOT true.

Or are you saying that Jesus' teachings only applied to those living in his neighborhood?


YOU:
Not exactly, the parable is a teaching for those he was talking to, the principle of that parable communicates a spiritual truth for everyone.

ME:
Cool cop out.

YOU: The Bible is Reliable and tested...


Then surely you provide links to these tests?

And you never did.​
The mustard seed was the smallest seed they would’ve been planting so yes true and reliable as well as how the parable describes the truth of the Kingdom of Heaven and also for today. Sorry if you cannot comprehend that but this illustration is how you view things.
A dad tells his son to stop running and only walking is allowed.
Next thing you know you find out the son was running and playing football while the dad says nothing.
You procede to call the dad a hypocrite and the
no running rule ridiculous, because you didn’t know it was at the swimming pool that the dad said no running.
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
A dad tells his son to stop running and only walking is allowed.
Next thing you know you find out the son was running and playing football while the dad says nothing.
You procede to call the dad a hypocrite and the
no running rule ridiculous, because you didn’t know it was at the swimming pool that the dad said no running.
Except in reality there is no evidence of the dad or the swimming pool. Just a bunch of people who have no ability to demonstrate that they know what they are talking about
 
Except in reality there is no evidence of the dad or the swimming pool. Just a bunch of people who have no ability to demonstrate that they know what they are talking about
I agree, someone on here actually suggested this:
*No historian nor Roman records during the life of Jesus recorded his existence,*
 
And no one has demonstrated that a god exists. So, now what?
D5E15568-6791-438E-BC9D-AC449AB54522.jpeg
Proof that God exists

Maybe one day you will experience God too like myself and many others throughout history.
 
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