Proof of Islam?

[Trailblazer]

Is that the description of your loving Allah?

God is not always loving.

How do we know that Bahaollah did not lie?

By looking at His character.

 

[England my lionheart]

Hello,

I am interested in finding out why Muslims believe Islam is the right religion, and discussing these points.
Alternatively, non-Muslims who have an idea as to why Muslims have this belief.

There are almost 2 billion Muslims, so there must be a reason they believe, however I have searched many different places and can’t find a reason I can accept.

Any reasons welcome, but especially if anyone has reasons which are more uncommon, as I have looked at the more common ones already.

This is coming from a Christian standpoint.

Thank you.

Let's face it,it's not even a choice,most followers are born into it and some religions you must be cicumcised as as baby which is a physical reminder for life,no choice.

A child has no choice,kind of monkey see monkey do too,you become what you surround yourself with so indoctrination is easy,for at least one religion there is no leave option,well not without repercussions.

 

[Aupmanyav]

By looking at His character.

What can we say about his character? He termed all people, all his relatives, who opposed him as "covenant breakers", and removed them from the Bahai community. You can compare him with Vlad Putin or any other dictator.

 

[Trailblazer]

What can we say about his character? He termed all people, all his relatives, who opposed him as "covenant breakers", and removed them from the Bahai community. You can compare him with Vlad Putin or any other dictator.

If they were covenant breakers they deserved to be ousted and they needed to be ousted.
That is not a reflection on His character.

 

[Duncan]

And they still blow their trumpet and claim authority on something the existence of which has not been established. A bit funny and also unfortunate.
Is that the description of your loving Allah? How do we know that Bahaollah did not lie?It is a bit more complicated than Quantum Mechanics. Would you be able to understand it?

Try me brother.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Well Trailblazer is free to follow any belief, it`s a choice but what I am saying is the Bahai Faith often projects itself to Muslims as a sect of Islam. They do this primarily by taking advantage of the fact that the origins of the Faith lie in Iran and that its founders have Muslim sounding names. The colonial-backed group twists information to deviate Muslims on the issue of finality of the prophet hood of Prophet Mohammed peace be upon him.
The study of the origin of any religion is important to any seeker of the truth for its helps us to establish veracity of its claims and that of its founders. And I did my homework to find out that the history of the Bahai Faith and that of its leaders is laced with deception, lies and dishonesty. It is a dark history that the Bahais are ashamed of and hence wish to hide from it or turn their face the other way when one reminds them of it.
And also I want everyone to keep in mind that the Bahai Faith has absolutely nothing to do with Islam. It is not a sect of Islam. In fact, it is condemned by all sects of Islam due to their disbelief on the issue of the finality of the prophet hood of the Holy Prophet peace be upon him.
But to answer your question clearly the bahai movement are following a misguided cult based on lies.

Dang! You know so much about these people! Wow! I've had 0 interest in them so never would have been able to commit to studying them even for a fraction of what you were able to put yourself through! How did you do so and manage? I find myself unable or very unwilling to force myself to read practically anything I have no interest in whatsoever. I can read tons about things I'm interested in but when reading stuff I have no interest in, it feels tedious, fruitless. Now what gives me the impression when reading something I am interested in, is an extra thought "I can use this in some way maybe, I'll be able to use this thing for my imagination, writing, practice", and not everything is equal for how it stimulates or interests me. I feel that you or other people may be functioning differently? Like how could someone possibly invest so much time and effort into studying something they have no interest in? Just because of the one guy from Israel? Or what motivated it? I'd be motivated by girls, to master something in order to extract them from it, though it might be hard. Like, I doubt girls could sufficiently motivate me to learm computer programming, even if they were working topless all together at their computers. I'd probably just be the creepy janitor peering over my mythology book while on break checking out their breasts resting on their station keyboards. Its a desperate state, but my laziness and finding the easiest way to get "just enough" leads to my settling for things. I can't imagine what would be able to motivate me to pursue something I have no interest in at all, if not a maiden, if not an immediate threat or necessity somehow, if having nothing to do with my survival or increases comfort, if the group has nothing I need or want and I don't even regularly interact or find them, and the words have nothing of interest to me, how could I dedicate so much time to something which isn't pleasurable? Like putting myself through hell.

Trailblazer finds aspects of the Bahai writings enjoyable. When they read the Qur'an at www.islamawakened.com/quran they will either find it as despicable and tedious as I find the Biblical scriptures, or they will enjoy it, and if its something in between or neither, how could they or what would their driving motivation be to even pursue it?

Why do I intricately study the Bible?

Because there are a huge amount of Christians that I can manipulate and control by being knowledgeable of the scriptures, because I can dawn a Christiany guise or costume, whereas dawning a Bahai one is simple enough with my knowledge of Islam and the Qur'an generally and the infrequency of ever even encountering them in any engaging fashion or one which warrants heroic efforts to rescue them, as they seem to be elderly people, all I can suggest is their trying their hand at the Qur'an before they cross their arms and are put away in the Earth.

Not only that, but the Bible contains a lot of things which can be used and have been used by various Occultists, Jewish, Christian, Gnostic, even Demoniacs. It also gives clues and references to certain Ancient semitic things hidden throughout the text including numerous hidden names and entities, like Tehom for example, Sapan, numerous others, many of which are little known or unknown divine epithets.

So even though I consider the Bible almost pure filth, it has some benefits in its careful study, and helps me to relate to and interact with certain populations which are widespread.

I don't get along one bit with most "witches" though, basically because they are crazy people, and have so given in to illogical craziness and made up stuff, while being almost belligerently illiterate due to feeling they have always had to fight for their imbecilic freedom from their Christian parents and upbringing and friends scoffing, and the heady power of acting like a cult leader or knowledgeable towards people who know even less than they do, which is very little, that they are motivated only so far to continue to follow their fantasies. Why they interest me is if they are attractive, and regardless, possibly due to their use and overall misuse of religions and religious terminology and ideas, since they are frequently the new polytheist anthropomorphic literalists whose clothes I'm hoping fall off.

My driving point behind these comments is human animalism, human psychology, human motivation, human pursuit, human tastes.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Part 2
Hindus are another huge population, and knowledge in Hinduism and Vedic scriptures gives me a lot of good interactions, though I fought with one semi-crazy pretty Hindu girl due to her indulging in personal craziness, her issues with my Lord Shiva, and finding out my sympathies or use of Islam, where she had some baggage with Muslims due to an ex-boyfriend.

Though, that is also why I don't like to associate too much with any particular religion, due to the terms meaning and referring to entirely different things. If he was doing all sorts of things outside of Islam, then how is he a Muslim anyway? I barely consider a lot of the "Muslims" to be "Muslims" and even the ones who really think they are, to be pretty far from authentic spirituality or interaction with the Master.

Therefor, I consider myself the "Truest" but for a stereotype might send them to you for a master class in authentic Sunni Islam and modern majority Islam as practiced by the Masters of the Sunni Way and fashion, Salafi, Wahabi, standard schools that have become dominant.

I don't believe that the majority of humans on the Earth are very different from each other, or very good, nor do they tend to experience magnificent and miraculous things regularly or at all or even possess good or useful concepts and understandings. I think that anyone who thinks Allah was questioned or spoken back to, informed, or corrected by Musa (Moses) will be destroyed by Allah, or at least that is my sincere wish for them, nor do I think they knew or understood the character of Musa (Moses) who trembled and was terrified of Allah like all the good and the righteous. I didn't know Musa (Moses), and if he was one to speak back obnoxiously and inform and correct Allah, may he be destroyed, and if Allah is such to be corrected or informed, this concept of Allah is not who I call Master then. It is the majority of today's and perhaps the pasts Muslims who tolerate such a vile and disgusting story, and maybe Allah will forgive them, but their hearts in my opinion are utterly diseased if they can allow themselves to accept or believe such a story, then they are like sheep following sheep, goats obeying goats for reasons other than knowing Allah, so that they can justify lies and poison in their religious thinking.

The same goes for anyone who tolerates the filth in the Biblical scriptures and keeps defending and upholding them.

So what does that amount to? A lot of people I perceive as demented, with rotten hearts (understandings and emotions).

These are in my view made that way by Allah, Allah who has made their hearts, led them astray, and likely plans to lead them to a hideous ongoing destruction as well.

Of all these lost "losers", the best of them are those who are civil and good to themselves and all creatures, who do not drink alcohol, participate in intoxicants, nor fornicate or commit adultery or have corrupt and disturbing sexual desires or perverted thinking and practices and pursuits.

If corrupt religious communities and philosophies promote these good conduct standards, they are above the rest of the filth, like scum or foam on the surface of a poisonous toxic mass. One such example of a vile religious philosophy with people who are taught to be moral and restrained are the LDS Mormons.

The Sunni Muslims are at the very top, their advantage being all things corrupting withheld from them with addition of clean anuses and genitals and the regular worship of Allah even if their understandings may be in some ways corrupt, generally they are not thinking about it, and their not thinking about it may save them much more than if they foolishly take to imagining things or believing in the model of Allah presented by the story which correcte and informs and speaks back to Allah and defies commands, may the authors of such be destroyed, may they suffer infinitely, may curses be upon them for all eternity and those who follow them, and may all those who reject such lies about Allah and do not carry and defend and perpetuate such stories in any way or preserve such positively and lead to corruption, misguidance, and error, be blessed and gain merit for their good qualities and being and good hearts which can identify evil and oppose it (or what I think is evil anyway!).

There is no religion or people among all humanity at large who are better than those who follow the Islamic way, who because of it keep themselves from sin and dirtiness in all senses and physical dirtiness included as well. They are the pinnacle of a Law found through the Qur'an which maximizes all things good and minimizes all things evil.

The Jain, in all their caution, do not match up due to their austerities towards bodies, their own bodies.

Islam beat everyone, even with utterly corrupt stories now carried and adored by lots of followers, even if a person believed all such absolute rubbish, their habits would still be better and lead to a better life than any other way currently known or practiced or available due to the avoidance of so many bad agents and activities with a religious seriousness and fervor and their bodily cleanliness.

Anyone who imitates and adopts these attributes will begin to prosper in their lives and experiences.

Whoever fornicates, whoever has pre-marital sexual relations without duty and obligation and irresponsibly, whoever cheats and steals and tricks and thinks they won't be judged and aren't watched, whoever is cruel, whoever is cruel to creatures including insects or is wanton in harming, scaring, causing anxiety, taking life, whoever is insensitive, whoever is physically unclean without good cleaning habits, whoever has no God or Power and does not worship and think upon God, and whoever is missing any good qualities and habits and restrictions, and behaviors, even if they are rich, they will suffer in this life, they are expected to suffer in the next.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

And you and your Bahaollah have evidence since you have returned from death! Don't take atheists to be fools to believe in what garbage these prophets / sons / messengers / manifestations / mahdis talk or write without showing an iota of evidence.

The Crimson Ark of the Baha'

Anyone who speaks the Truth says what needs to be said. The people of 2+2=4 and all other Truthsayers instead of Soothsayers, are the real Messengers of God, who is the Truth itself. Whatever is True and Right and Correct should be discovered, adopted, and followed. Nothing should be trusted or merely taken on Blind Faith or the word of people we never saw or knew even as others tell it. If anyone said 2+2=4, they were telling the truth, though we can never know who before our time really even said it if they did or did not.

That is why all thats left are the materials now, to take and make the best of it, and what can't be known or verified or effectively or properly understood, put that portion aside.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Baha'u'llah kept most of what He knew about the afterlife under his hat.

Joseph Smith was a hat guy, and Aleister Crowley took a famous photo where he wears a funny pyramid shaped hat.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

All the prophecies for the return of Christ and the coming of the Messiah, OT and NT.

Those prophecies and how they were fulfilled are in this book: William Sears, Thief in the Night

I am quite certain they also fulfilled the prophecies of all the other religions since they all await a Messiah, but I am not familiar with those prophecies.

The Qur'an makes no mention of a savior or the term "Messiah" to mean more than the appointed and annointed (like for Jesus as the Prophet sent to the B'Nei Israel, the Jews even called Cyrus Messiah, so Cosmic All-Savior of Humanity Forever seemed to develop later from piled up exaggerations), thank goodness.

The Qur'an has no intercessors or saviors generally or at all between Allah and each individual, what is between them is the conduct sent forth by the person, their intentions, not even the results of their actions necessarily, just their intentions and justifications and reasonings for their conduct, their "hearts".

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Nobody can establish that as a fact.

I can and have, many times, but also can't, because no one can read it or understand what the heck I'm even saying, referring to, or talking about.

If the Sky can be "established as a fact" so can Allah, and I do it.

Two Logics One Miracup(s) - Pastebin.com

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

I do not consider that a valid argument for a last Prophet. First, there is no way to know if or when the world will end, but there is no reason to think it will be any time soon. All Baha'u'llah said is that as long as humans exist, God will send Prophets to reveal teachings and transmit the Grace of God, as I said in a previous post. Obviously, if the earth ceased to exist, there would be no more humans in need of Prophets.

Allah sends messengers, people who communicate the truth, and even signs and messages through everything, and is likely to do so until the end.

Did Baha'Ullah create scripture like the Qur'an? The "Book Bringing" Prophets are considered different by Muslims who like categorizing things. Even I'm a messenger of Allah though. I deal with people all around the world and help them with their spiritual issues and spread the messages of Allah and goodness.

I won't create a scripture or a separate religion though, only directing people to prosper by worshipping the Master, and there are all sorts of people who work and carry the messages and spread them and help people.

By definition of the word "Messenger" I'm a messenger, and "of Allah" as I credit Allah with the messages and work and they also are about Allah.

Everyone is an Agent of Allah's will, knowingly or unknowingly.

Allah is the one for example who is conducting this whole show between all of us, you brought here every component, who replaced Tokita with the Wisdom person, who brought the Atheistic Hindu messenger, who has placed Duncan as a strong Hercules of Islam, who made me a snake, with a snake in the front, and a snake coming out of the back, and a snake coming out of every hole, just a whole lot of hissing like a broken bagpipe.

Your role here, as assigned by Allah, is represent the Bahai for now.

We all play are roles perfectly, and when we are all in a deeper hell than this together, our clownery will continue masterfully for as long as Allah wills.

Allah, who is known as the Wolf God or God of Wolves also (causing a lot of confusion and tension with Evangelical Christians because of Wolves howling at the Moon) also sent the "Wolf Spirit", whispering into his mind the inspiration to create this thread which would be part of what has the rest of Allah's philosophical comedic theatre unfold as intended.

Wolf Spirit was also removed from reading the progress maybe, as no one is allowed to read or see what Allah does not want them to read or see, and even if one does read it, how they understand it is also Allah's creation and doing.

So when I say you should go read www.islamawakened.com/quran , I know its impossible to even try, let alone understand a word of it except if Allah gives you that impression anyway or "makes you" to either think you understand or authentically understand in a good way, and if its for your profit or loss, is ultimately unknown like most things.

All I know is that I'm an agent, you're an agent, and we're both doing a perfect job, even if we're perfectly failing.

We're also all barely interested in learning, much like puppets with no brains, in an Italian folk puppet play which consists mostly of screeching speech and battering.

That is also why God is called
Dio dei bambini.

They say "Know Thyself", and I say "Ayye! Issa Pupi!"

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

I have no idea.
God resides on His Throne of Glory in the spiritual world, but I do not know what that means, other than that God is out of our reach.

Oh wow, so what the heck is this thing I'm dealing with? Maybe a monster!

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Good, if anyone knows nothing, then the person can always claim that he/she is not telling everything because it would frighten others (and this is a favor to the questioners). People employ various strategies to hide their ignorance or to propagate their lies.

I have read these apocalypse and horror-genre books and seen the films in my childhood. I know better now and you cannot frighten me with this balderdash.
As if there is any truth in prophecies of scriptures and their fulfillment. The whole edifice is built on untruth.People have different beliefs. I would neither believe that Jesus was son / messenger / prophet of God, nor Mohammad nor Bahaollah. You first have to establish the existence of God / Allah.

I take this song in a very spiritual way, but it seems to mention someone not saying or showing something and not knowing:

"I will never know, because you will never show" or something like that:

The Carnival and merri-go-round of ignorance, desire, attainment, dissolution, and recreation.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

"Whosoever interpreteth this verse otherwise than its obvious meaning is deprived of the Spirit of God and of His mercy which encompasseth all created things".

and the German people are now called by the party and especially the Fuehrer to a real Christianity ... the Fuehrer is the herald of a new revelation".

"Whosoever interpreteth this verse otherwise than its obvious meaning is deprived of the Spirit of God and of His mercy which encompasseth all created things...except whosoever interpreteth this verse otherwise than its obvious meaning, for they are deprived of the Spirit of God and of his Mercy which encompasseth all things except them ("them" being whosoever interpreteth this verse otherwise than its obvious meaning, for they are deprived of the Spirit of God and of his Mercy which encompasseth all things except them.) Ameeeeen.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

The question was simple brother. Is there an after life? Because you were quoting some verses of the Quran as it a fairy-tale of the after life, so I just wanted to know you opinion on the subject of the after life only

Though he can answer himself, and its a good question, I think they mentioned being a pretty hardcore atheist scientific materialist so probably believe death is the permanent end to their consciousness.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Let's face it,it's not even a choice,most followers are born into it and some religions you must be cicumcised as as baby which is a physical reminder for life,no choice.

A child has no choice,kind of monkey see monkey do too,you become what you surround yourself with so indoctrination is easy,for at least one religion there is no leave option,well not without repercussions.

A lot of people who are not Muslims or Jews are or were circunsized, especially in the United states during certain periods. What does that mean about their beliefs? When they look down at their genitals, does it say "Shalom Aleichom"?

 

[WonderingWorrier]

A lot of people who are not Muslims or Jews are or were circunsized, especially in the United states during certain periods. What does that mean about their beliefs? When they look down at their genitals, does it say "Shalom Aleichom"?

And We put coverings over their hearts lest they should understand the Quran, and deafness into their ears: when thou dost commemorate thy Lord and Him alone in the Quran, they turn on their backs, fleeing from the Truth. 17:46




And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. Genesis 17:14

Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers. Romans 15:8.

His disciples said to him, "Is circumcision beneficial or not?". He said to them, "If it were beneficial, their father would beget them already circumcised from their mother. Rather, the true circumcision in spirit has become completely profitable". Thomas 53.



Thou art filled with shame for glory: drink thou also, and let thy foreskin be uncovered: the cup of the LORD's right hand shall be turned unto thee, and shameful spewing shall be on thy glory. Habbakkuk 2:16

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh. Romans 2:28

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Romans 2:29

Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. Deuteronomy 10:16



And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. Deuteronomy 30:6

Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of your evil doings. Jeremiah 4:4


At that time the LORD said unto Joshua, Make thee sharp knives, and circumcise again the children of Israel the second time. Joshua 5:2

For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Romans 2:25

 

[England my lionheart]

A lot of people who are not Muslims or Jews are or were circunsized, especially in the United states during certain periods. What does that mean about their beliefs? When they look down at their genitals, does it say "Shalom Aleichom"?

That's funny but the point was "no choice"

 

[Trailblazer]

The Qur'an makes no mention of a savior or the term "Messiah" to mean more than the appointed and annointed (like for Jesus as the Prophet sent to the B'Nei Israel, the Jews even called Cyrus Messiah, so Cosmic All-Savior of Humanity Forever seemed to develop later from piled up exaggerations), thank goodness.

The Qur'an has no intercessors or saviors generally or at all between Allah and each individual, what is between them is the conduct sent forth by the person, their intentions, not even the results of their actions necessarily, just their intentions and justifications and reasonings for their conduct, their "hearts".

As I said, I have not read the Qur'an, so I do not know what it says, but I do know there are prophecies for the coming of the Mahdi:

3./ Muslim Prophecies and the Appearance of Imam Mahdi