Propaganda: Why it is necessary for Islam

[Kodanshi]

I have no respect for Muhammad nor his ideology whatsoever. I don't like his message, how he lived his life or how he treated people. He's a terrible example for people to follow. This is not the case with say Jesus or Buddha who were good examples.

I dunno. I consider Jesus a pretty ****–poor example to follow as well.

 

[YmirGF]

I dunno. I consider Jesus a pretty ****–poor example to follow as well.

I am hard pressed to understand why anyone would want to follow another. What was that bit about having no intercessors?

 

[Fatihah]

I get it. So any act that cast Muslims in a negative light is obviously not true Islam, correct?

Response: Amazing. Here we are with over 50+ posts in the thread and neither you nor anyone else can quote anything from the qur'an or sunnah to show that islam isn't a religion of peace. Amazing. Simply amazing.

 

[Kodanshi]

Oh there are plenty of such quotes. Inevitably, though, muslims bleat about how people have ‘taken it out of context!’

 

[Alla Prima]

Response: Amazing. Here we are with over 50+ posts in the thread and neither you nor anyone else can quote anything from the qur'an or sunnah to show that islam isn't a religion of peace. Amazing. Simply amazing.

Torment to Non-believers

004.056


Only Islam Acceptable

003.085


No friends from outsiders

003.118


No friends*with Jews, Christians

005.051


No friends with non believers

004.114


003.028

*
No friends with parents/siblings if not believers

009.023


Fight non-believers

009.123


Kill non-believers

004.089


Anti Jew verses

005.082


God a "plotter", deceiver

008.030


Killing Idolaters

009.005


Idolaters are unclean just because they are idolaters

009.028


Forcing Christians and Jews to pay tax

009.029


All except Muslims/Jews/Christians/Sabeans will go to hell

002.062


005.069


Cast terror in the hearts, smite the neck and cut fingertips of unbelievers

008.012


smite the necks of unbelievers

047.004


Severe Punishment for atheists

010.004


005.010


005.086


Severe Punishment for non-believers

022.019


022.020


022.021


022.022

072.023
.

098.006


Punishing non-believers of Hereafte

017.010


Punishing for rejecting faith

003.091

Non believers go to hell

004.140

007.036


Partial Believers go to hell too

004.150


004.151


Sadistic punishments

056.042

056.043

Punishment for apostates

016.106


003.086

003.087


003.088

003.090

004.137


Threat of punishment for not going to war

009.038


009.039


048.016


God making someone more sinful so he can be punished more

003.178


Intentionally preventing unbelievers from knowing the truth

006.025

006.110


Intentionally preventing unbelievers from Understanding Quran

017.045


017.046


017.047

017.048

017.049


017.050


017.051


017.052

017.053


017.054


017.055

017.056

017.057

017.058

017.059


017.060
.

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017.071


017.072


017.073

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017.075


017.076


It is God who causes people to err and He punishes them for that

017.097


God could guide, if he chose to, but did not

006.035


Intentionally misguiding those whom he pleases to

014.004

Willfully misguiding some

016.093


God causes human to err

004.143


007.178


God deceiving human

004.142

 

[Alla Prima]

Response: Amazing. Here we are with over 50+ posts in the thread and neither you nor anyone else can quote anything from the qur'an or sunnah to show that islam isn't a religion of peace. Amazing. Simply amazing.

Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives an property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

 

[Alla Prima]

Response: Amazing. Here we are with over 50+ posts in the thread and neither you nor anyone else can quote anything from the qur'an or sunnah to show that islam isn't a religion of peace. Amazing. Simply amazing.

Sahih Bukhari

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260:


Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Volume 9, Book 83, Number 37:

I said, "By Allah, Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:

Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Volume 9, Book 89, Number 271:

A man embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism. Mu'adh bin Jabal came and saw the man with Abu Musa. Mu'adh asked, "What is wrong with this (man)?" Abu Musa replied, "He embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism." Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down unless you kill him (as it is) the verdict of Allah and His Apostle

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 58:

There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, "Who is this (man)?" Abu Muisa said, "He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism." Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed.

 

[kai]

You've got the "Muslim" part wrong, Kai. In Islam we recognize that Moses (PBUH) was given the Torah and had different Sharia Law (Halakah), we also realize that Jesus (PBUH) illustrated his message in the Gospels.

Muslim and Islam means submission to the will of God. We believe all Prophets and Messengers were Muslims. Therefore, when we refer to Moses and Jesus (PBUT) as "Muslims" the implication is that they all were given the same message which is the submission to the will of God, but not as they were followers of Muhammed (PBUH) and the Qur'an.

On a related note, in Islam we believe every human is born as "Muslim", we believe it is in our nature to be born fully submitted to the will of God. That's why when someone embraced Islam we call them reverts and not converts. You can also notice that there isn't any Islamic sacrament for new born or accepting new converts (e.g. baptism, bar/bat mitzvah, etc).

Anyway, i think the answer to your question Fatihah is obvious. We believe in Judaism and Christianity, while they don't believe in Islam.

But Musa and Isa are Muslims prophets, since when did Muslims become followers of Mohamed , that brings to mind terms like "Mohamedans"i thought that mohamed was returning Islam to the people .

and how can you beleive in Judaism and Christianity ? Islam is the true religion of Adam , the "message of moses and jesus who were both Muslims was corrupted by jews and christians. the messages Musa and Isa brought were Islam surely?

 

[kai]

Response: Simple. When the people of those countries tried to attack the the muslims, the muslims defended themselves and gained control of their land.

i see a statement wheres the proof!

 

[kai]

Are you for real telling us that Roman and Persian Empires were minding their own business and did not interfer in the Arabian Peninsula even before the birth of Islam??

I have no idea! but what i do know is Egypt ,Syria,Persia,Anatolia,India,Lybia,Spain are not in the Arabian Peninsula

 

[kai]

Negative light is subjective term. But yes Islam is perfect, Muslims are not. In many ways, Islam's worst enemy is Muslims.

Then you will understand that non muslims tend to take examples from Muslims.

my overiding frustratingly simple question is ,If Islam is so perfect why do so many Muslims get it so wrong.

 

[Fatihah]

Torment to Non-believers

004.056

Response: And what is the problem here? Are we suppose to reward wrong doing? Do you give money to a person after he robs a bank?

Quote: Alla Prima
Only Islam Acceptable

003.085

Response: What's wrong with this verse. When you go to the supermarket, do you not purchase the best of products? Do you go for the old and expired meats? Assuming you don't, why is it o.k. for you to recommend the best but not o.k. for others?

Quote: Alla Prima
No friends from outsiders

003.118


No friends*with Jews, Christians

005.051


No friends with non believers

004.114


003.028

*
No friends with parents/siblings if not believers

009.023

Response: Yes. The verse says to not be friends with the jews or christian. Now let me refer you to ch.60: 8,9. In it we are told not to disrespect those who have not fought against us. Therefore, if the jews or christians are not being aggressive towards us then we are to show them respect but not be their friends. A friend is one you love and put your faith and trust in. Why would a muslim befriend a person who disrespects their prophet and slander their religion. If a person slanders your mother publically, would you be their friend?

Quote: Alla Prima
Fight non-believers

009.123


Kill non-believers

004.089

Response: Are we not allowed to defend ourselves? So if a person tries to kill you and you defend yourself, are you in the wrong?

Quote: Alla Prima
Anti Jew verses

005.082

Response: Exactly how is this anti-jew?

God a "plotter", deceiver

008.030

Response: The fact that the verse neither says God is a "plotter" or "deciever" is clear evidence of which one of us is actually doing the deceiving.

Quote: Alla Prima
Killing Idolaters

009.005

Response: Refer to the 4th response above.

Quote: Alla Prima
Idolaters are unclean just because they are idolaters

009.028

Response: And what is the problem with this verse?

Quote: Alla Prima
Forcing Christians and Jews to pay tax

009.029

Response: What is wrong with this verse? Do you live in a country where you don't have to pay taxes?

Quote: Alla Prima
All except Muslims/Jews/Christians/Sabeans will go to hell

002.062


005.069



Cast terror in the hearts, smite the neck and cut fingertips of unbelievers

008.012


smite the necks of unbelievers

047.004

Response: What do you do when someone is in the act of killing you? Do you prefer giving them a hug?

Quote: Alla Prima
Severe Punishment for atheists

010.004


005.010


005.086


Severe Punishment for non-believers

022.019


022.020


022.021


022.022

072.023
.

098.006


Punishing non-believers of Hereafte

017.010


Punishing for rejecting faith

003.091

Non believers go to hell

004.140

007.036


Partial Believers go to hell too

004.150


004.151

Response: Again I ask, is wrong doing supposed to be rewarded?

Quote: Alla Prima
Sadistic punishments

056.042

056.043

Response: Point being?

Quote: Alla Prima
Punishment for apostates

016.106


003.086

003.087


003.088

003.090

004.137

Response: If a person used your wife or your daughter for money, do you reward the person with gifts?

Quote: Alla Prima
Threat of punishment for not going to war

009.038


009.039


048.016

Response: The US and other countries threaten it's citizens with punishment if they don't enroll in the army as well. Are they being cruel?

Quote: Alla Prima
God making someone more sinful so he can be punished more

003.178

Response: No where in the verse does it say that God is making someone more sinful. These are your words, not the qur'an. In fact, what you've just stated doesn't make any sense due to the fact that a sin in islam is a bad deed someone does of their own free will. So God can not make a person sin because making someone do something prevents them from acting out their own free will.

Quote: Alla Prima
Intentionally preventing unbelievers from knowing the truth

006.025

006.110


Intentionally preventing unbelievers from Understanding Quran

017.045


017.046


017.047

017.048

017.049


017.050


017.051


017.052

017.053


017.054


017.055

017.056

017.057

017.058

017.059


017.060
.

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017.076


Response: None of the verses state that God prevents anyone from knowing the truth.
He will though prevent you from an easy path in life due to the fact that you know the truth but do not wish to accept it which again I ask, do you reward wrong doing?

Quote: Alla Prima
It is God who causes people to err and He punishes them for that

017.097

Response: These are your words, not the words of the qur'an.

Quote: Alla Prima
God could guide, if he chose to, but did not

006.035


Intentionally misguiding those whom he pleases to

014.004

Willfully misguiding some

016.093


God causes human to err

004.143


007.178

Response: Again, your words, not the qur'an. Such a shame when people have to distort. It is only more evidence of the truth. For had it not been the truth, there would be no need for distortion.

Quote: Alla Prima
God deceiving human

004.142]

Response: Another distortion. Part of the much needed propaganda from a non-muslim to draw attention away from their wrong doing.

 

[McBell]

Propaganda: Why it is necessary for Islam?

It is necessary for all religions, lest they fade away.

 

[Fatihah]

Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives an property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

Response: Martin Luther King JR used to "fight" for the rights of African Americans. So according to your logic, even he was a bad man. One can clearly see which of us is injust in their thinking.

 

[McBell]

Response: Martin Luther King JR used to "fight" for the rights of African Americans. So according to your logic, even he was a bad man. One can clearly see which of us is injust in their thinking.

Wow, now that is a major stretch of logic if I ever heard one.

 

[Fatihah]

Sahih Bukhari

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260:


Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Volume 9, Book 83, Number 37:

I said, "By Allah, Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:

Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Volume 9, Book 89, Number 271:

A man embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism. Mu'adh bin Jabal came and saw the man with Abu Musa. Mu'adh asked, "What is wrong with this (man)?" Abu Musa replied, "He embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism." Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down unless you kill him (as it is) the verdict of Allah and His Apostle

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 58:

There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, "Who is this (man)?" Abu Muisa said, "He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism." Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed.

Response: Exactly what is the issue? You've quoted some hadiths but you don't state what your issue is with them.

 

[McBell]

Response: Exactly what is the issue? You've quoted some hadiths but you don't state what your issue is with them.

So are you saying that you see nothing wrong with they are saying?

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: Is it in the qur'an? No. Is it in the sunnah? No. Is it even relevant to the topic of the thread? No. Therefore, it's a post intended to sidetrack the thread from the simple fact that you nor anyone else is capable of providing text from the qur'an or sunnah that shows that islam promotes unnecessary and injust acts of violence. So instead one must insist on talking about the Taliban in an effort to make it seem that it is from islam. Propaganda in it's full attire.

But how about the Hadiths of Bukari,i have been told by Muslims that they are interchangable with the Sunnah,as regards the Taliban do they not base everything they do on Islam.

 

[YmirGF]

Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives an property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

Response: Martin Luther King JR used to "fight" for the rights of African Americans. So according to your logic, even he was a bad man. One can clearly see which of us is injust in their thinking.

I am trying very hard to see the connection, but so far do not.
Why are you comparing a statement about inequality and subjegation to the work of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr?
King fought for freedom not for the right to oppress.

And yes, we can clearly see who is being injust in their thinking. Well done, Fatihah, well done. Keep up the astonishingly good work.

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: Is it in the qur'an? No. Is it in the sunnah? No. Is it even relevant to the topic of the thread? No. Therefore, it's a post intended to sidetrack the thread from the simple fact that you nor anyone else is capable of providing text from the qur'an or sunnah that shows that islam promotes unnecessary and injust acts of violence. So instead one must insist on talking about the Taliban in an effort to make it seem that it is from islam. Propaganda in it's full attire.

It was'nt me who brought up the subject of the Taliban.There are i am told 1.5 billion Muslims in the world but they are not the same as i'm sure you know,Sunnis,Shi'ite etc and now Progressive British Muslims which is great and brave,but unfortunately over 600 million Muslims live in Islamic states that practice a medaeval sexist and cruel system of law that belongs in the bin along with the people who administer it.
If you consider every criticism of Islam as propaganda i will present to you enough facts pertaining to Human rights issues that would take you a year to read,just say the word.