Propaganda: Why it is necessary for Islam

[Gharib]

Of course not! I have no (nor do I want) such power. Islam does that all on it's own. People need simply approach Islam with an unbiased mind as I did.

now you said it. do you really believe that?

if so then please just let me know and i will leave you be and you can think anything you want about islam, i really don't care what others think, i would if the cared what i thought of them, but it's never been like that.

I'm sorry but your cutsey pop psychology isn't going to work on me. I think that because that's what the facts show me.

yes the biased facts that are to prove islam a bad religion, just as you are doing.

you are not in a possition to tell people about islam, nor am i but i know well enough about my religion to tell or answer peoples question.

Apostasy was an example of your untruths and I'll bring it up if it's appropriate. It's not up to you what I bring up in this thread. Your distortion of the truth of the punishment that Islam sanctions for apostates has been made clear for all to see. It's another instance of Muslim propaganda.

so you do not accpet what i said about apostacy simply because thats not what you want islam to be like, what i said about apostacy on islam is not what you wanted to hear so you are saying i am lying. you know god will decide in judgement day who is lying and who is telling the truth, but untill then do as you wish.

and it is propaganda comming from non muslims, simply because you all think islam kills apostates, but infact thats not true. now just because you do not like the truth presented to you about islam and it's ruling on apostacy, that doesn't make it untrue, and it certainly isn't how you say it, you are a non muslim, you cannot tell muslims of their religion. we are alive, none of us have died for you to tell us our religion.

 

[Alla Prima]

now you said it. do you really believe that?

if so then please just let me know and i will leave you be and you can think anything you want about islam, i really don't care what others think, i would if the cared what i thought of them, but it's never been like that.

I cannot make Islam a bad religion. What I'm saying is Islam makes itself a bad religion.

yes the biased facts that are to prove islam a bad religion, just as you are doing.

you are not in a possition to tell people about islam, nor am i but i know well enough about my religion to tell or answer peoples question.

Yes I am in a position to tell people about Islam. Someone has to. Muslims won't.

so you do not accpet what i said about apostacy simply because thats not what you want islam to be like, what i said about apostacy on islam is not what you wanted to hear so you are saying i am lying. you know god will decide in judgement day who is lying and who is telling the truth, but untill then do as you wish.

For the fourth time no. These are not my motivations. I would have Islam the religion of peace it claims to be. But it's not.

and it is propaganda comming from non muslims, simply because you all think islam kills apostates, but infact thats not true. now just because you do not like the truth presented to you about islam and it's ruling on apostacy, that doesn't make it untrue, and it certainly isn't how you say it, you are a non muslim, you cannot tell muslims of their religion. we are alive, none of us have died for you to tell us our religion.

I don't 'think' Islam kills apostates. I know Islam kills apostates. We all know Islam kills apostates because apostates have been killed for being apostates. Not pretty but simple. That is a fact only Muslims seem able to deny. And we know where muslims get their marching orders to kill apostates. I posted it.

 

[McBell]

well just because your knowledge isn't up to date or at the required level it does seem that way. the verses cannot be interpreted in any way appart from what they actually mean. and every verse is quoted with the number next to it, you can look it up yourself if you wish. thats the reason for quoting the number.

It isn't that it "seems that way" it is that that is exactly what you are doing.
The verses have been reinterpreted every time the current knowledge is improved.
The fact that you cannot/will not see this glaring hole in your argument speaks volumes.

I have looked up the verses and though some versions of the koran are worded differently they still seem to mean to same thing. And NONE of them come close to meaning all the stuff you are trying to make it mean/say.

Again, your refusal to see/accept the truth in and of itself speaks volumes.
As I have already stated on this forum...It is a good thing that the internet is not my source for information concerning Islam.
For you and Fatihah have painted a rather terrible picture of the religion you claim to love.

 

[Fatihah]

Again, your refusal to see/accept the truth in and of itself speaks volumes.
As I have already stated on this forum...It is a good thing that the internet is not my source for information concerning Islam.
For you and Fatihah have painted a rather terrible picture of the religion you claim to love.

Response: Neither eselem or myself are responsible for your denial. When (or if) the day comes when you approach the dialogue with an open-mind, that will be the day when you'll be able to confess the true picture of islam which is the most beautiful of all pictures. Unfortunately, you still wish to approch the conversation with your own personal agenda and not humble yourself to admitting when you are simply wrong in what you say. Your own pride is preventing you from confessing the truth.

 

[tufmek]

Each radical religious break from convention has come due to social, economic, political, and other factors at that time. This makes each such religion a contextually grounded, living, breathing response to the circumstances from which it emerged. Sometimes it drew upon and added to thoroughly documented traditions of the time (Judaism, for instance, with the God of Micah seen as the same as the God of Noah despite hugely differing portrayals of the Deity). At other times these religious responses arose from and then broke away completely (such as with Christianity), or emerged from totally different circumstances and drew upon elements already present (such as Islam).

Jews documented their nationalist history extensively (though most likely from their captivity in Babylon onwards, and thus drawing upon Babylonian myths and legends too) and certainly knew their religion thoroughly. They proved eloquent in these matters and consummate at exegesis, midrash and religious debate.

So when people presented Yeshua‘ (Jesus) as THE Messiah expected by the Jews they had a fight on their hands, not least of which because nothing in Judaism predicted a messiah who would die before emancipating them. Earliest Christians naturally came from Jewish stock. Accordingly they drew upon Jewish history (they had to so that others would engage them in debate). Gentile Christians, therefore, had to subsume the entire Tanakh as their Old Testament in order to establish Jesus’ place within history — only to break him away from it.

Of course, Muhammad had a much more radical, even grandiloquent, solution: simply to declare that the Jews and Christians had corrupted their holy books and had strayed from their true path. Therefore he had no need to argue with them on their own religious grounds.

I might not fully agree with you on some ideas, but it was very logical explanation.

 

[Alla Prima]

Response: Neither eselem or myself are responsible for your denial. When (or if) the day comes when you approach the dialogue with an open-mind, that will be the day when you'll be able to confess the true picture of islam which is the most beautiful of all pictures. Unfortunately, you still wish to approch the conversation with your own personal agenda and not humble yourself to admitting when you are simply wrong in what you say. Your own pride is preventing you from confessing the truth.

An 'open mind' for you means being a slave to Islam. No thank you.

 

[McBell]

Response: Neither eselem or myself are responsible for your denial.

MY denial?
Wow, you truly are deluded.

When (or if) the day comes when you approach the dialogue with an open-mind,

Open mind?
What would you know of that particular state?

that will be the day when you'll be able to confess the true picture of islam which is the most beautiful of all pictures.

I prefer reality over your particular fantasy.
Though I suspect that you will never be able to understand.

Unfortunately, you still wish to approch the conversation with your own personal agenda

Now you are merely talking out your arse.
MY agenda?
You are the one with the agenda.
Problem is that no one outside your choir is buying into it.

and not humble yourself to admitting when you are simply wrong in what you say.

Look in the mirror lately?

Your own pride is preventing you from confessing the truth.

You have not presented any truth.

 

[Alla Prima]

As for the Baha'I teachings and prophets, islam does not accept it. But that's it. You don't see any muslim missionaries here trying to defame the character of their prophets. That's the difference.

Islam defames whole religions such as Buddhism so as far as I see Islam wins in the defamation department.

 

[Gharib]

I cannot make Islam a bad religion. What I'm saying is Islam makes itself a bad religion.

you've got to be the least mature person on RF. let me tell you that. that is prue childish, you think anyone is going to buy that. if so then whats your rush in saying that islam is a bad religion to people, i thought we did that ourself.

next time think before you speak and grow up.

Yes I am in a position to tell people about Islam. Someone has to. Muslims won't.

read above, a clear contradiction by your own words.

what a childish statement.

For the fourth time no. These are not my motivations. I would have Islam the religion of peace it claims to be. But it's not.

wow you can count, good for you.

if they are not your motivations, and personal may i add, then how come you know what islam is and i don't. how ome you just read some article on the net and come here blabing on about islam is this islam is that when you aren't letting the muslims tell their religion to others.


you say that you would have islam as a religion of peace if it is.
why bring that nonsense up?
do you think i can't see past the fake appearance of people such as yourself, if so then please wake up, you are dreaming.

YOU would have islam a religion of peace but if YOU wanted to actually speak the truth about islam. clearly anyone as immature as you can see from your statements that you hate islam so much that you think it is you who should be speaking about islam. blah blah blah, thats all you are doing.

I don't 'think' Islam kills apostates. I know Islam kills apostates. We all know Islam kills apostates because apostates have been killed for being apostates. Not pretty but simple. That is a fact only Muslims seem able to deny. And we know where muslims get their marching orders to kill apostates. I posted it.

news flash, 2 RF members have left islam. they both are alive.

the punishment on apostacy is not how you "interpret the "truth" to people" but it is as islam says so.

please take some time off to clean your mind up, you seriously are proving to be just another arrogant non muslim who gives fake smiles to people but behind that smile a treachures bite awaits, a perfect stabb in the back.

 

[abdullah087]

Mohummed is the last messenger, he came for the whole of mankind, you have to follow and accept him in order to obey allah, the creater the lord

 

[Gharib]

It isn't that it "seems that way" it is that that is exactly what you are doing.

what exactly am i doing? you lost me here.

The verses have been reinterpreted every time the current knowledge is improved.
The fact that you cannot/will not see this glaring hole in your argument speaks volumes.

i've never heard any sounds, have you? i think you are imagening things man.

I have looked up the verses and though some versions of the koran are worded differently they still seem to mean to same thing. And NONE of them come close to meaning all the stuff you are trying to make it mean/say.

what am i trying to say?

Again, your refusal to see/accept the truth in and of itself speaks volumes.

thats the second time, mestemia. go see a doctor they can help while it's fresh.

As I have already stated on this forum...It is a good thing that the internet is not my source for information concerning Islam.

no you've got the media, no one can challenge you on that as being a non-authentic source, right?

For you and Fatihah have painted a rather terrible picture of the religion you claim to love.

is that because we are dealing with nonsense and uncivilised people, or is there something else?

i though civilised people kept an open mind and respected other people, well we sure are far from that.

is there anything else?

 

[Gharib]

Islam defames whole religions such as Buddhism so as far as I see Islam wins in the defamation department.

oh so now you can see clearly, well good for you. thats a good improvement.

 

[abdullah087]

There is no one, no god worthy of worship or to be called the lord except allah, the creater of time and space and everything which exist, and Mohummed peace be upon him in last messenger who came for the whole of mankind and the Quran in the last and final revalation from allah, the only revalation which has not been changed by a single letter and it is for the whole of mankind to read.

 

[Fatihah]

MY denial?
Wow, you truly are deluded.


Open mind?
What would you know of that particular state?


I prefer reality over your particular fantasy.
Though I suspect that you will never be able to understand.


Now you are merely talking out your arse.
MY agenda?
You are the one with the agenda.
Problem is that no one outside your choir is buying into it.


Look in the mirror lately?


You have not presented any truth.

Response: The proof has been provided and your denial of it is evident. Post 615 of page 62 of the thread.

 

[abdullah087]

Quran Chapter 2 verse 248

To allah belongs all that is in the heavens and that is on the earth,
and wether you disclose what is in your ownselves or conceal it, allah will call you to account for it.
The he forgives whom he wills and punishes whom he wills. And allah is able to do all things.

 

[McBell]

Response: The proof has been provided and your denial of it is evident. Post 615 of page 62 of the thread.

Again you speak of proof.
Proof that you have not provided.
You do an awful lot of talking, but present nothing but more of the same and think it is proof.

You are to fond of your merry-go-round.

 

[Gharib]

You do an awful lot of talking, but present nothing

now where exactly have i seen that before? oh right above this statement.

 

[McBell]

no you've got the media, no one can challenge you on that as being a non-authentic source, right?

Wrong.
Again.
I have a local Mosque.
I also have neighbors who are Muslim.

is that because we are dealing with nonsense and uncivilised people, or is there something else?

YOU are dealing with nonsense?
Wow, you are truly gifted in the art of projection.

i though civilised people kept an open mind and respected other people, well we sure are far from that.

You are the last person who needs to speak about open mindedness.

is there anything else?

There is all manner of 'else'.
Sadly you may never know the depth of it.
Oh well, your loss.

 

[McBell]

now where exactly have i seen that before? oh right above this statement.

You have seen it in several of Fatihah's posts.
Which is why it was presented back to him.

Of course, with the two of you being in the same choir, I do not expect you to understand it any better than him.
But seeing as the two of you have clearly shown that your hypocrisy know no bounds, I am not the least bit surprised.

 

[Gharib]

Wrong.
Again.
I have a local Mosque.
I also have neighbors who are Muslim.

so just because you have muslim neighbours, that doesn't mean you know about islam, or that you can speak nonsense about it.

YOU are dealing with nonsense?
Wow, you are truly gifted in the art of projection.

i should receive an award then, i will make mentione of you in my speech.

You are the last person who needs to speak about open mindedness.

and you are the second last, that makes you not much diferrent to me.

There is all manner of 'else'.
Sadly you may never know the depth of it.
Oh well, your loss

goody, your gain. what did you win?