Propaganda: Why it is necessary for Islam

[England my lionheart]

Quote Fatihah:Response: You haven't answered the question. Can you produce a chapter like the qur'an's?

Even if this challenge was met it would'nt be accepted as Kai pointed out,the important thing here is the content which can easily be reproduced,it is the writing style that is the problem.
When the Quran was revealed Arabic Poetry was riding high,the style of the way the Quran was written is the difficult part.
The content of the Quran from my perspective is a plagiarisation of the books of the Bible and the Muslim claim that the Torah had been tampered with or changed is really the otherway round,it is the Quran that has changed what is in the Torah to what is the Quran.
The fact that the Bugatti Veyrons manual can be proved to be true and no religious writing can will still be met with the stock question " Can you produce a chapter like the qur'an's?" because in reality thats all Muslims have.

 

[Judgment]

Response: Muhammad (pbuh) was caught cheating? I see a statement. Where's the proof? If what you have quoted above is your evidence, then there really is no need to go further because even in the verses you've quoted, it says nothing of that nature.

Here is the claim. And below is the challenge from Sina. If you can prove the claim to be incorrect - you receive the reward... and the info is removed from the site.


Sina's Challenge: Muhammad a Lecher
Sina's Challenge


"I receive many emails from angry Muslims, who sometimes beg me, and sometimes order me to remove this site. I consider both, pleading and bullying, signs of psychopathology. Argumentum ad baculum and argumentum ad misericordiam are both logical fallacies.
If you do not like this site and want me to remove it, instead of acting as a bully or as a victim, disprove my charges against Muhammad logically. Not only will I remove the site, I will publicly announce that Islam is a true religion. I will also pay

$50,000 U.S. dollars "​

 

[Judgment]

Is 'all' obedient to Allah ?

30:26
Unto Him belongeth whosoever is in the heavens and the earth. All are obedient unto Him.

2:34
We said unto the angels: Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He demurred through pride, and so became a disbeliever.

Response: Where is the contridiction? The first verse speaks of how the heavens and the earth are obedient. The following verse speaks of Iblis who is neither the heaven or the earth. No contridiction.

Quote: Judgement
Forgiveness ?

39:153
Say: O My slaves who have been prodigal to their own hurt! Despair not of the mercy of Allah, Who forgiveth all sins. Lo! He is the Forgiving, the Merciful.

4:168
Those who disbelieve and deal in wrong, Allah will never forgive them.

9:80
Ask forgiveness for them (O Muhammad), or ask not forgiveness for them; though thou ask forgiveness for them seventy times Allah will not forgive them. That is because they disbelieved in Allah and His messenger.

Response:The verse you have quoted in ch.39:153 is wrong, simply due to the fact that there is no verse 153 in the chapter.

Assuming that you meant 53, again I ask, where is the contridiction? If you read the next verse, it clearly says that the sin is forgiven once they submit themselves to Allah. No sin is forgiven unless you repent and do good deeds. No contridiction.

Quote: Judgement

To God - a Son ?

39:4
If Allah had willed to choose a son, He could have chosen what He would of that which He hath created.

6:100-1Yet they ... impute falsely, without knowledge, sons and daughters unto Him. ... The Originator of the heavens and the earth! How can He have a child?


Link for Naskh: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naskh_(exegesis)

Response: Again I ask, where is the contridiction.

Fatihah: Response: Where is the contridiction? The first verse speaks of how the heavens and the earth are obedient. The following verse speaks of Iblis who is neither the heaven or the earth. No contridiction.

The verse states "whosoever is in the Heavens and the Earth". That would include Iblis. In fact - that would include 'everyone'.

Since there are many unbelievers - the contradiction is clear. 'all' are not obedient to Allah.

Fatihah:Response:The verse you have quoted in ch.39:153 is wrong, simply due to the fact that there is no verse 153 in the chapter.

Assuming that you meant 53, again I ask, where is the contridiction? If you read the next verse, it clearly says that the sin is forgiven once they submit themselves to Allah. No sin is forgiven unless you repent and do good deeds. No contridiction.

Not correct. If you change your mind - Allah will not forgive. Contradiction
is clear.

4:137Those who believe, then disbelieve and then (again) believe, then disbelieve, and then increase in disbelief, Allah will never pardon them.

Fatihah: Response: Again I ask, where is the contridiction

You gave no rebuttal here ? One verse states he could have a son - and one does not.
The contradiction is looking back at you.

 

[Judgment]

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LOL, 'Mariya' was his wife and mother of his son Ibrahim. And those verses have nothing to do with Mariya, it was between Aisha and Safiya (i think).



Yes of course there are similarities in the content, we don't claim Islam came out of nothing, we do believe Islam is the successor of Judaism and Christianity. I was referring to the presentation when i said the Quran is nothing like the Bible. And the Qur'an is limited to God's words which is not the case with the Bible.

This is in dispute. See post #622. Challenge Sina if you wish.

The second part of your post was not directed at me.

 

[Judgment]

so how do these verses contradict each other, i don't get that.

See Post #623.

 

[Gharib]

Here is the claim. And below is the challenge from Sina. If you can prove the claim to be incorrect - you receive the reward... and the info is removed from the site.


Sina's Challenge: Muhammad a Lecher
Sina's Challenge


"I receive many emails from angry Muslims, who sometimes beg me, and sometimes order me to remove this site. I consider both, pleading and bullying, signs of psychopathology. Argumentum ad baculum and argumentum ad misericordiam are both logical fallacies.
If you do not like this site and want me to remove it, instead of acting as a bully or as a victim, disprove my charges against Muhammad logically. Not only will I remove the site, I will publicly announce that Islam is a true religion. I will also pay

$50,000 U.S. dollars "​

you get your info from that idiot?

 

[Judgment]

Response: Your inability to see is no fault of mine.

This verse means that you will accept a certain set of beliefs uncritically.

You are not allowed to look at your beliefs objectively. A veil has been placed over your mind.

You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom. 4:150-151

 

[Judgment]

you get your info from that idiot?

Idiot ? We are done.

No one has proven the information wrong. The info is still there.

 

[Gharib]

Idiot ? We are done.

No one has proven the information wrong. The info is still there.

alright i'm probably the last person fo the job, but what the hell.

what would you like me to dissprove from "the idiots" website? you posted i'll give it my shot, ok.

 

[Judgment]

wow you guys are loving this aren't you.

Judgement comes along saying some verses in the quran contradict each other, which even a blind person and a dumb person can see they don't

YmirGF comes along trying to encourage Judgement into more ignorace, thus the 2 are being ingorant in their own little world.

Kodanshi comes along posting stuff about things that have already been done to dissprove islam, just like he proved that Muhammed (saws) was literate.

i'm confused, what do i do next?

England is even more confused than me,

Azakel wants to read arabic but doesn't know how. doesn't even know what the arabic writting looks like.

ProudMuslim is clarifying things to Judgement about missinterpreted verses or scenarios.

Fatiha has got all the answers and yet he is wrong.

wow, where does that leave me?

Judgement comes along saying some verses in the quran contradict each other, which even a blind person and a dumb person can see they don't

Nonsense.

ProudMuslim is clarifying things to Judgement about missinterpreted verses or scenarios.

More nonsense.

 

[Gharib]

Nonsense.


More nonsense.

ok, show me the verses and please point out the parts that actually do contradict, if you are truthfull that is.

 

[Judgment]

alright i'm probably the last person fo the job, but what the hell.

what would you like me to dissprove from "the idiots" website? you posted i'll give it my shot, ok.

Sorry Eselam... I read wrong. I thought you called me the idiot - Which could also be true anyways...... I just woke up and logged on...


Dissprove the link attached to that post.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I wish we all could just get along. I have no quarrel with most Muslims. I respect other religions and would like to remind both Christian, Jew and Muslim that we have the same God.

 

[Judgment]

ok, show me the verses and please point out the parts that actually do contradict, if you are truthfull that is.

Post #623

 

[kai]

I wish we all could just get along. I have no quarrel with most Muslims. I respect other religions and would like to remind both Christian, Jew and Muslim

that we have the same God

.

thats debatable in itself

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/72927-there-god-there-god.html

 

[Judgment]

I wish we all could just get along. I have no quarrel with most Muslims. I respect other religions and would like to remind both Christian, Jew and Muslim that we have the same God.

This is debating my Brother.

 

[Gharib]

Sorry Eselam... I read wrong. I thought you called me the idiot - Which could also be true anyways...... I just woke up and logged on...

wow wow, where'd you get that from? i never called you an idiot. i called the guy that's oppend that site. well if you've oppend it then i did mean you, but if you haven't oppened it then i didn't mean it to you.

Dissprove the link attached to that post.

i really don't like links, it means i'll have to do the reading, can you just post it here?

first let me have a few guessess about what it is going to be about (if memorie serves me right);

Muhammed (saws) raped women?
he killed inoccent people?

and i think there may have been one more, i can't remember what it was.

so help me aout Judgement, what is it that you want me to dissproove?

 

[Gharib]

Post #623

no you've given me a post number, not the verses, i think you might have woken up too early

 

[Gharib]

This is debating my Brother.

you are all trying to dissprove islam, hoc can that be debating?
i'd say it is dictating. isn't it?

 

[Judgment]

wow wow, where'd you get that from? i never called you an idiot. i called the guy that's oppend that site. well if you've oppend it then i did mean you, but if you haven't oppened it then i didn't mean it to you.



i really don't like links, it means i'll have to do the reading, can you just post it here?

first let me have a few guessess about what it is going to be about (if memorie serves me right);

Muhammed (saws) raped women?
he killed inoccent people?

and i think there may have been one more, i can't remember what it was.

so help me aout Judgement, what is it that you want me to dissproove?

You are not following the debate stream. The one challenge we are speaking of now is my post # 496.


Here is the link info that explains it: There was too much info and this site wouldn't let me paste and copy. Sina's Challenge: Muhammad a Lecher