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Pros and cons of attempts at perceiving many or all religions as pointing to the same conclusions

Kartari

Active Member
Hi paarsurrey... and everyone else here, actually,

The 3rd one reads:
When their inherent similarities are revealed, the collected wisdom of the world’s religions shows a profound "Oneness" of the human spirit. When placed side-by-side—with surprisingly similar wording in many instances—the essential beliefs shared by all religions confirm that our differences are superficial, and that our similarities are deep. They have the overwhelming effect of creating unity, where differences dissolve and the soul can wonder—why do we have such conflicts?
http://www.onenessonline.com/
Fine!
Agreed
Regards

I agree with the sentiment that the world's religions demonstrate our common humanity. We're all human beings in the world, with the same basic desires and the capacity to dream. Though they differ widely on the details, we find notions of deities, life after death, and other supernatural ideas in probably all religions. We also find some strong similarities in how human societies have basically defined morality via religion. For instance, four of the Five Precepts for laypeople in Buddhism are similar to four of the Ten Commandments (the precepts concerning abstaining from murder, theft, sexual misconduct, and deceit). All religions have rituals for common human desires as well, such as funerary and wedding rituals, as well as rituals for a variety of other purposes.

Where I disagree is in the notion that this "Oneness of the human spirit" coincides with a Oneness of purpose or goals for all the world's religions. Each religion truly does identify the perceived fundamental problems and solutions, first with respect to each's formative society and, next, to those societies' in which each migrates and adapts to over time. But they nonetheless differ (and rather widely) in not only which specific problems are thought to be the most fundamental, but perhaps most profoundly differ in how to best solve those problems.

Take a (very quickie) comparison between Christianity and Buddhism for instance (two religions I happen to know very well). Christianity deems sin as the most fundamental problem, defined as the deviation from God's will. The Buddha identified sickness, old age, and death, or in a word suffering (or existential dissatisfaction) as the most fundamental problem in life instead. Right off the bat, we have two very different ideas about what's most problematic in life. Christians view evil as that which deviates from their ultimate authority's laws, while Buddhists view evil as merely that which causes suffering.

Their solutions, naturally, differ even more widely. For the Christian, professing belief or faith in Jesus Christ as their only possible means of salvation from death, or from eternal hellfire (depending on the sect), is the provided solution. In traditional Buddhism, however, the solution is to diligently meditate and detach from the three poisons of greed, hate, and delusion. Christianity is entirely dependent on a supernatural being for salvation, therefore, whereas Buddhism is entirely independent of external saviors, viewing the self as one's only possible savior. Even the very concept of salvation differs in definition between the two.

Even amongst two very similar religions, such as Daoism and Buddhism, there are important differences. Daoists and Buddhists are very agreeable on many things: from the 6th century CE on in China, the average person could not even distinguish Daoist and Buddhist clergy, practices, or temples from one another they were so similar. While Daoists and Buddhists performed similar meditation techniques, the same rituals, and had other similarities, the Daoists' solution (as traditionally expressed) to sickness, old age, and death was to use those techniques to attain greater health and longevity by being one with the dao and, ultimately, to gain immortality. The Buddha instead took the approach of accepting life as it is, to release attachments to the fleeting nature of existence.

So while all religions identify and provide solutions to what are perceived to be the most fundamental problems of human existence, those identified problems and solutions actually vary. Hence, it's hard to simply paint a broad brushstroke over them all and claim they all basically teach the same thing... when, in fact, they do not.

So how do the world's religions nonetheless show the Oneness of the human spirit? Because each is a particular expression of certain human desires and ultimate ideals. We don't all need to be Buddhists to recognize that sickness, old age, and death are not desirable. We don't all need to be Christians to recognize that people usually don't want to die. Christianity expresses the desire for immortality in an afterlife. Daoism expresses the desire for immortality in this life. Buddhism expresses the desire to detach from desires whatsoever in order to attain equanimity come what may. I think all of humanity can understand on some level the appeal of each of these end goals, even if they find one particular goal more appealing than the others.

So I see no reason to recognize our common humanity, our common desires, and also live in a world where different religions identify different basic issues and solutions. We are all human, regardless of whether we agree with each other or not. This holds true of religion as well as other facets of life. Why would it indicate we're not one in spirit if our religions actually point to different end goals? Having a difference of opinion need not lead to conflict; we can have our unique ideas, religious or otherwise, and still get along well if we're simply all being mature adults about it. Diversity breeds creativity and a more interesting and thought-provoking experience of life than uniformity ever could.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
I agree with the sentiment that the world's religions demonstrate our common humanity. We're all human beings in the world, with the same basic desires and the capacity to dream. Though they differ widely on the details, we find notions of deities, life after death, and other supernatural ideas in probably all religions. We also find some strong similarities in how human societies have basically defined morality via religion. For instance, four of the Five Precepts for laypeople in Buddhism are similar to four of the Ten Commandments (the precepts concerning abstaining from murder, theft, sexual misconduct, and deceit). All religions have rituals for common human desires as well, such as funerary and wedding rituals, as well as rituals for a variety of other purposes.
Quran endorses it when it says:
1.[2:5] And who believe in that which has been revealed to thee, and that which was revealed before thee, and they have firm faith in what is yet to come.
[2:6] It is they who follow the guidance of their Lord and it is they who shall prosper.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=2

[2:98] Say: ‘Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel — for he it is who has caused it to descend on thy heart by the command of Allah, which fulfils that which precedes it, and is a guidance and glad tidings to the believers —
[2:99] ‘Whoever is an enemy to Allah, and His angels, and His Messengers, and Gabriel, and Michael, then surely, Allah is an enemy to such disbelievers.’
  1. http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=2&verse=97
Regards
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Perennialism is quite offensive, idiotic, sanctimonious, ethnocentric and even racist.

I have a deep interest in religions such as Satanism (the more serious, spiritual forms of it, not the LaVeyan stuff), Dionysian religion, Aztec religion, Vodoun, Quimbanda, Germanic religion and the worship of "dark" Goddesses such as Kali and Chhinnamasta. To say that these religions have the same ultimate goals and worldview as religions such as the Abrahamic religions or mainstream Dharmic religions is laughable. Just the ethics of those religions are directly opposed to each other. They are not idealistic, do not view the world or humanity as flawed in any way, all have a strong current of violence running through them (in terms of their philosophies of life and in that they accept reality as it is), are not moralistic, etc. In fact, to most people, they're very frightening.

There's a lot of whitewashing going on here. I see it a lot in certain neopagan and Hindu circles, too, which seems to be partially influenced by Abrahamic mores. It's like with the Goddess Kali, there's a trend of some Hindus wanting to just focus on her as a benevolent mother goddess like Lakshmi, ignoring the violence and general amorality that has been associated with her for centuries, and which is rather plainly seen in her iconography and in the fact that human sacrifice was a daily thing at her temples for many centuries. A sort of philosophical and ethical dualism seems to have seeped in which wasn't there before. (Note: I'm not saying that to worship certain deities, you have to do things like human sacrifice, but being in denial of the fact that it was part of the traditional worship of the deity and therefore trying to make the deity appear more palatable to modern social mores is ridiculous, at best. Even the Aztec gods still want blood from their worshipers (which the worshipers offer of themselves through bloodletting), even though you can't actually kill a human for them these days, legally.)

The ethnocentrism and apparent racism comes into play because it's mostly focused on mainstream Abrahamic and Dharmic religions, with a kind of New Agey spin. Native American, Mesoamerican, South American, sub-Saharan African, Pacific Islander, Australian Aboriginal, Inuit, indigenous East Asian and even minority Indian (like ones who couldn't care less about the Vedas and Brahamic system), etc. peoples and their religions are ignored, as if they don't count somehow or that they don't exist. They matter. Their views count and they still exist.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Where I disagree is in the notion that this "Oneness of the human spirit" coincides with a Oneness of purpose or goals for all the world's religions. Each religion truly does identify the perceived fundamental problems and solutions, first with respect to each's formative society and, next, to those societies' in which each migrates and adapts to over time. But they nonetheless differ (and rather widely) in not only which specific problems are thought to be the most fundamental, but perhaps most profoundly differ in how to best solve those problems.
For instance, will you please list/identify, problems between Hinduism and Buddhism? They had existed side by side as neighbors for centuries? Please
Regards
 

The_Fisher_King

Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
Premium Member
The name would be in the language that the prophet/messenger of G-d is sent:
[14:5] And We have not sent any Messenger except with the language of his people in order that he might make things clear to them. Then Allah lets go astray whom He wills, and guides whom He wills. And He is the Mighty, the Wise.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=14&verse=0
It is easy to understand in one's own language. Please
Regards

You haven't answered my question.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Take a (very quickie) comparison between Christianity and Buddhism for instance (two religions I happen to know very well). Christianity deems sin as the most fundamental problem, defined as the deviation from God's will. The Buddha identified sickness, old age, and death, or in a word suffering (or existential dissatisfaction) as the most fundamental problem in life instead. Right off the bat, we have two very different ideas about what's most problematic in life. Christians view evil as that which deviates from their ultimate authority's laws, while Buddhists view evil as merely that which causes suffering.
Jesus as well as Buddha did not leave behind anything concrete in writing. They even did not dictate their thoughts to anybody.
Further, they did not authorize anybody on the their (Jesus' or Buddha's) behalf, all we find is an unauthorized collection. We cannot say definitely as to what they said.
The scriptures that we have from them are just the thoughts of their followers as to what they said. Please
Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Ya'quub said:
Are you saying that the founders of all religions received Words of Revelation from Allaah?
My question was:
Buddhism: yes, Buddha had Revelation from G-d.
Hinduism: yes, Krishna had Revelation from G-d.
Zoroastrianism: yes, Zoroaster had Revelation from G-d.
Judaism: yes, Moses had Revelation from G-d.
Christianity: yes, Jesus had Revelation from G-d.
Islam : yes, Muhammad had Revelation from G-d.
Islam: yes, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad had Revelation from G-d.
Does it help? Please
Regards

P.S.Confucius? was a prophet/messenger of G-d.
Socrates was a prophet/messenger of G-d.
Guru Nanak? was a Muslim saint/wali-ullah.
 
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The_Fisher_King

Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
Premium Member
Ya'quub said:
Are you saying that the founders of all religions received Words of Revelation from Allaah?

Buddhism: yes, Buddha had Revelation from G-d.
Hinduism: yes, Krishna had Revelation from G-d.
Zoroastrianism: yes, Zoroaster had Revelation from G-d.
Judaism: yes, Moses had Revelation from G-d.
Christianity: yes, Jesus had Revelation from G-d.
Islam : yes, Muhammad had Revelation from G-d.
Islam: yes, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad had Revelation from G-d.
Does it help? Please
Regards

So not the founders of all religions then?

What Revelation did Siddhartha Gautama (the Buddha) receive from Allaah?

So you think Krsna is the founder of Hinduism? What Revelation did Krsna receive from Allaah?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
So not the founders of all religions then?
Good question.

What about

Adi Da?
Akhenaten?
Alesteir Crowley?
Allan Kardec?
Anton LaVey?
Auguste Comte?
Sri Aurobindo?
Atisha?
The Báb?
Bahá'u'lláh?
Bodhidharma?
Confucius?
Dogen?
Ellen G. White?
Mestre Gabriel?
George Fox?
Gerald Gardner?
Guru Nanak?
Haile Selassie?
Hamza ibn-'Ali ibn-Ahmad?
H.P. Blavatsky?
Inri Cristo?
John Calvin?
Joseph Smith?
Li Hongzhi?
L Ron Hubbard?
Madhvacharya?
Maharishi Mahesh Yogi?
Mahavira?
Mark L. Prophet?
Marshall Applewhite?
Martin Luther?
Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab?
Nagarjuna?
Nebuchadnezzar II?
Nichiren?
Padmasambhava?
Paul the Apostle?
Paul Twitchell?
Rajneesh?
Rudolf Steiner?
Samael Aun Weor?
Sathya Sai Baba?
Shinran Shonin?
Shoko Asahara?
Songtsen Gampo?
Paramahansa Yogananda?

Each and every one of those was at least a major influence in the creation of religious movements. Yet I doubt anyone can truly accept all of them as divinely inspired, at least in any sense that excludes the average person.

I honestly don't see how anyone can avoid concluding that at least some of those are lying or deluded.

Edited to add: also, how non-inspired can the likes of Saladin, Badshah Khan and Ramana possibly be, if we somehow convince ourselves that all of the above are divinely inspired?
 
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paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Good question.

What about

Adi Da?
Akhenaten?
Alesteir Crowley?
Allan Kardec?
Anton LaVey?
Auguste Comte?
Sri Aurobindo?
Atisha?
The Báb?
Bahá'u'lláh?
Bodhidharma?
Confucius?
Dogen?
Ellen G. White?
Mestre Gabriel?
George Fox?
Gerald Gardner?
Guru Nanak?
Haile Selassie?
Hamza ibn-'Ali ibn-Ahmad?
H.P. Blavatsky?
Inri Cristo?
John Calvin?
Joseph Smith?
Li Hongzhi?
L Ron Hubbard?
Madhvacharya?
Maharishi Mahesh Yogi?
Mahavira?
Mark L. Prophet?
Marshall Applewhite?
Martin Luther?
Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab?
Nagarjuna?
Nebuchadnezzar II?
Nichiren?
Padmasambhava?
Paul the Apostle?
Paul Twitchell?
Rajneesh?
Rudolf Steiner?
Samael Aun Weor?
Sathya Sai Baba?
Shinran Shonin?
Shoko Asahara?
Songtsen Gampo?
Paramahansa Yogananda?

Each and every one of those was at least a major influence in the creation of religious movements. Yet I doubt anyone can truly accept all of them as divinely inspired, at least in any sense that excludes the average person.

I honestly don't see how anyone can avoid concluding that at least some of those are lying or deluded.

Edited to add: also, how non-inspired can the likes of Saladin, Badshah Khan and Ramana possibly be, if we somehow convince ourselves that all of the above are divinely inspired?
Confucius? was a prophet/messenger of G-d.
Socrates was a prophet/messenger of G-d.
Guru Nanak? was a Muslim saint/wali-ullah.
Regardds
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Guru Nanak was a Muslim saint?
Somehow I don't think that many people will agree.
Yes, he was.
But aren't you always on the other pole? So, let it be:

Baba Guru Nanak was a Muslim Saint- Islam Ahmadiyya(Urdu)


Regards
 
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popsthebuilder

Active Member
Religions have different goals and different assumptions, and I think it is best to recognise and respect the differences. I am dubious about snycretic approaches which invariably gloss over differences and misrepresent individual traditions. I am also dubious about people who claim that their religious view somehow incorporates or transcends all the others, they sound rather arrogant to me.
What different goals?
 
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