Proselytizing

[Tarheeler]

What if the proselytizer is willing to listen and be proselytized, even as he tries to proselytize?

In other words, what is the difference between debate and proselytizing?

It depends on the debate.

A debate is a forum where opposing ideas are presented, and it can serve many different purposes. Proselytizing is the activity of attempting to convert people to your ideology.

If you use debate to achieve that goal, then it is proselytizing. If your goal is something else, then it is not proselytizing.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

It depends on the debate.

A debate is a forum where opposing ideas are presented, and it can serve many different purposes. Proselytizing is the activity of attempting to convert people to your ideology.

If you use debate to achieve that goal, then it is proselytizing. If your goal is something else, then it is not proselytizing.

It has always seemed very nebulous to me. My goal when I debate is to struggle mightily with other worldviews in an effort to refine both my worldview and that of my debate partner. If my partner believes it is right to torture small animals, I confess that I want to convert him to my own ideology of inflicting no unnecessary harm on other lifeforms.

But I don't knock on strange doors to push my message, nor travel to foreign lands to preach it to the heathen, so....

 

[LuisDantas]

@ luis, both Pegg and Thana are holding a contradictory opinion. Its OK for theist to prolitisize but its morally wrong when theist do it.

Oh, I see.

But there is an assymetry between theistic and atheistic proselitism. It just happens to be one that does not favor theism.

 

[Tumah]

...First Question: In your view, is there a moral or other crucial difference between New Atheists like Harris, Dawkins, Hitchens, and PZ Meyers trying to convert folks to atheism, and theists like Pat Robertson, Billy or Franklin Graham, D. James Kennedy, and John Hagee trying to convert people to theism?...

I hate to derail the thread, I was just wondering: Isn't Pat Robertson the guy from that romance movie? Did he go the way of Kirk Cameron too now?? What is Hollywood doing to these people??

 

[Iti oj]

Oh, I see.

But there is an assymetry between theistic and atheistic proselitism. It just happens to be one that does not favor theism.

How so?

 

[LuisDantas]

How so?

Because atheism does not serve as a justification, and therefore does not empower otherwise unwise or illegitimate actions and beliefs.

 

[Sunstone]

I hate to derail the thread, I was just wondering: Isn't Pat Robertson the guy from that romance movie? Did he go the way of Kirk Cameron too now?? What is Hollywood doing to these people??

I googled Pat Robertson and almost all that came up on the first page this clown.:sorry1:

 

[Tumah]

I googled Pat Robertson and almost all that came up on the first page this clown.:sorry1:

Oh nevermind. I googled "Pat Robertson romance movie vampire" got the name of the movie "twilight" and then googled "pat robertson actor twilight" and found the the person I was thinking of was Robert Pattinson. Apparently they are not the same person.

 

[Iti oj]

Because atheism does not serve as a justificationits, and therefore does not empower otherwise unwise or illegitimate actions and beliefs.

I suppose but that denies any other justification, weather its anti theism, humanism, or celebrating science. Of course their is also the reactionary view as well. Humans and then behaviors are never liner.

 

[SkylarHunter]

I don't see a problem with proselytizing. The only way to learn from other people is by listening to them. That doesn't mean we have to believe what they say or that we have to convert.
Normally when I'm approached by someone trying to convert me I always have the choice to listen or not. So far I never had anyone being pushy or trying to force me into believing anything. They tell me what they believe is the truth, I listen and make my own mind.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Reading a book, watching a TV show, or listening to a radio program is a choice. If you want to listen to someone's proselytizing in those media, that's your choice, and I have no problem with people proselytizing in such a manner. However, unsolicited proselytizing is inherently presumptuous and arrogant, and is often pushy and rude. I've encountered many of these people in my life. And although they often maintain a smile and friendly demeanor, they're not actually being polite or friendly when they ignore your desire to be left alone and won't leave until you physically close the door in their face. Now thinking back on the many occurrences of unsolicited proselytizing I've encountered, I can't think of a single case where the person was proselytizing atheism.

 

[Alceste]

Reading a book, watching a TV show, or listening to a radio program is a choice. If you want to listen to someone's proselytizing in those media, that's your choice, and I have no problem with people proselytizing in such a manner. However, unsolicited proselytizing is inherently presumptuous and arrogant, and is often pushy and rude. I've encountered many of these people in my life. And although they often maintain a smile and friendly demeanor, they're not actually being polite or friendly when they ignore your desire to be left alone and won't leave until you physically close the door in their face. Now thinking back on the many occurrences of unsolicited proselytizing I've encountered, I can't think of a single case where the person was proselytizing atheism.

What he said.^

 

[Sunstone]

Reading a book, watching a TV show, or listening to a radio program is a choice. If you want to listen to someone's proselytizing in those media, that's your choice, and I have no problem with people proselytizing in such a manner. However, unsolicited proselytizing is inherently presumptuous and arrogant, and is often pushy and rude. I've encountered many of these people in my life. And although they often maintain a smile and friendly demeanor, they're not actually being polite or friendly when they ignore your desire to be left alone and won't leave until you physically close the door in their face. Now thinking back on the many occurrences of unsolicited proselytizing I've encountered, I can't think of a single case where the person was proselytizing atheism.

Well, well, well. we think we're pretty special, don't we? Not us! We shouldn't have to listen to decent, smiling folks who merely love us enough to want to save our souls. Oh, I get it! You're just too good for them. Too darn good. Well, maybe you'll think twice the next time you make a 911 call because of a fire or police emergency and nobody at 911 wants to listen to you!

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Well, well, well. we think we're pretty special, don't we? Not us! We shouldn't have to listen to decent, smiling folks who merely love us enough to want to save our souls. Oh, I get it! You're just too good for them. Too darn good. Well, maybe you'll think twice the next time you make a 911 call because of a fire or police emergency and nobody at 911 wants to listen to you!

This type of mastery over convolution and confusion indicates a natural talent for proselytizing.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I hate to derail the thread, I was just wondering: Isn't Pat Robertson the guy from that romance movie? Did he go the way of Kirk Cameron too now?? What is Hollywood doing to these people??

Oh nevermind. I googled "Pat Robertson romance movie vampire" got the name of the movie "twilight" and then googled "pat robertson actor twilight" and found the the person I was thinking of was Robert Pattinson. Apparently they are not the same person.

Lol! :biglaugh:

 

[Sunstone]

This type of mastery over convolution and confusion indicates a natural talent for proselytizing.

I've heard things almost like that from real proselytizers.

 

[Sunstone]

I don't see a problem with proselytizing. The only way to learn from other people is by listening to them. That doesn't mean we have to believe what they say or that we have to convert.
Normally when I'm approached by someone trying to convert me I always have the choice to listen or not. So far I never had anyone being pushy or trying to force me into believing anything. They tell me what they believe is the truth, I listen and make my own mind.

Out of curiosity, how would you rate the information that proseltyzers have provided you with over the years? On a scale of from 1 to 5 with 1 being the least slanted or the least spun to 5 being the most slanted or the most spun. I mean, of course, in general. And for the sake of comparison, on he same scale, how would you rate the information you've found in Wikipedia?

 

[McBell]

They do not rely on arguments alone. They also enjoy using irrational arguments, petty insults, and gross generalizations.

Like this gem:


Although I admit that some of the more hate filled Christian's do the same thing. So the "new atheists" are in good company.

Interestingly enough, it is the theists who set the bar...

 

[McBell]

Reading a book, watching a TV show, or listening to a radio program is a choice. If you want to listen to someone's proselytizing in those media, that's your choice, and I have no problem with people proselytizing in such a manner. However, unsolicited proselytizing is inherently presumptuous and arrogant, and is often pushy and rude. I've encountered many of these people in my life. And although they often maintain a smile and friendly demeanor, they're not actually being polite or friendly when they ignore your desire to be left alone and won't leave until you physically close the door in their face. Now thinking back on the many occurrences of unsolicited proselytizing I've encountered, I can't think of a single case where the person was proselytizing atheism.

What he said.^

Seconded

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

FWIW: I've had people approach me on a few occasions but have never found them to be impolite or inattentive. Perhaps I've been lucky ...