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Protestants don't know their Bible!
- Thread starter Spiderman
- Start date
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
The Church was that started by Jesus and the Apostles, and the Book of Revelation deals with events around 100 c.e., not centuries later
For example, identifying "666" was put in the present tense so it had to be someone the Church new when Revelation was written. Most theologians I've read on this from different sources are quite certain it's a reference to Caesar Nero 54-68 c.e.
For example, identifying "666" was put in the present tense so it had to be someone the Church new when Revelation was written. Most theologians I've read on this from different sources are quite certain it's a reference to Caesar Nero 54-68 c.e.
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Your problem is that 666 was not the original number of the beast. Nero didn't "deceive" "those who dwell on the earth" (Rev 13), and Nero didn't have two horns like a lamb. And Nero didn't leave a mark whereas you couldn't buy or sell. I am thinking that your "theologians" are probably of the Catholic persuasion, and are part of the realm of deceit. Revelation, is about the whole range of the beasts, which spans Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon, the head of gold, to the iron and clay of the 8th head of the beast of Revelation 17. The 7th head of the beast, who was "another (king) to follow" the "ten horns" of Caesars original dictator type of Roman empire, which ended with the destruction of Jerusalem, will "make alterations in times and in the law", and the "saints will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time" (Daniel 7:25-26), at which time "his dominion will be destroyed, and the kingdom of the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints". Nero is dead, and he has no Catholic church, as does Constantine, to carry on his persecution of the saints, the righteous portion of Judah. The church established by Yeshua was built on Petras, the foundation stone of the Spirit of Revelation (Matthew 16:17), not on petros, a little stone, Peter, who was the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:16-17..
The vast majority of bishops were from the east, not from the west, and Constantine didn't care about the church, he only cared about his empire. His religious adviser was a leader of the Arians, Eusebius, who along with Constantine, were one of the few who could actually read and write. The church was "ratified", by Theodosius prior to Theo summoning a new ecumenical council to ratify the Trinity doctrine, after he had expelled the non-Nicene bishop. Up until that time, the Arians appeared to be winning the argument, as the children of Constantine appeared to side with the Arians. The authority of the Roman Catholic church rests primarily on the shoulders of two Roman emperors. (Revelation 17:3)
Truth&Hope
Jesus Freak
It is true, Catholics are notorious for not knowing Scripture well. But having spent time at monasteries, where you go to daily Mass, and hear more Scripture read to you over a period of 6 months than attending Protestant services for years, and getting to know Catholics who actually know their Bible, it is remarkable.
A catholic who knows their Bible can easily defeat a Protestant in a debate! In fact, I have seen Protestants who knew their Bible really well, it lead them into the Catholic Church, and then they debate with a Protestant on EWTN, and they win the debate so easily, it looked like Muhammad Ali in the ring with a poodle (total and complete victory for the Catholic), because the entire basis for the Protestants argument, the foundation, was completely unbiblical!
Here is why: Protestantism is is actually a system of Religion that is built on a foundation that blows up on it's own. Protestantism is based off of Sola scriptura Doctrine that is found no where in Scripture. Many Protestants often say, "we only follow the Bible". But they have no basis for doing so. The Bible doesn't say to do that!
In fact, Scripture says the opposite. Scripture makes it very clear that people need an official interpreter of Scripture, and that people twist Scripture to their own destruction.
Matthew 18 "tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector." So, the Bible says nothing about using the Bible as the final authority on anything. The Bible actually makes it clear that to do so is dangerous and destructive. The Bible says to listen to and obey the Church.
The first Christians were not Bible Christians! That is clearly obvious! The Bible is a Catholic book that was not available to anyone until the Catholic Church councils at Rome, Carthage, and Hippo.
Every Christian Church on the face of the earth had devotion to Mary and the Saints for over 1500 years, and to me I tend to believe that if Christ is a man of his word, he would shepherd his Church better than that, if such practices were an abomination.
Most Protestants deny that Mary is "Mother of God", stating that every Christian Church on earth was mistaken , and was Idolatrous, and most Protestants believe veneration of Mary and Saints is Demonic. That is thoroughly depressing and nauseating (in my opinion), because when I try to look at history that way, I see God look evil, pathetic, a thoroughly terrible Father in my opinion, a thoroughly terrible shepherd, and a liar who can't be trusted, because he abandoned Christians, and let all Churches on earth (for over 1500 years) fall into demonic practice.
Nothing against Protestants, because I'm sure many Protestants are more holy, better people than myself. But when I try to see history from that point of view, that all churches on earth were sanctioning prayers to demons + Satanic abominations, I simply find it incompatible with a loving responsible God, who is faithful to his word.
Jesus had a biological earthly mother at the nativity, one mother who nursed, breastfed God, one mother who gave birth to God, one mother the Angel said "Hail full of grace, rejoice highly favored one". Scripture calls Mary "The Mother of my Lord" google "who am I that the mother of my Lord should visit me", Scripture says "all generations shall call Mary blessed", the hail Mary is a Biblical prayer.
Scripture says "the word was God...the word became flesh and dwelt among us", Jesus is God.
Protestants sometimes teach erroneous Doctrines that seem to deny the Divinity of Christ, which the Bible says otherwise.
Mary was at the foot of the cross with Christ. Jesus told John, "son behold thy mother."
Scripture says in revelation, a sign in the sky, a woman standing on the Moon, clothed with the Sun, on her head a crown of stars. Scripture says the woman is the mother of those who follow God's commandments. She battles the Dragon. Revelation 12. The Mother of God.
Many people claim to be a friend of Christ, yet they genuinely despise his bride, the Church!
I have difficult time trusting such people. It would seem those who cause division and confusion, are teaching dangerous Doctrines (according to the Gospel) that were not part of Christianity for over 1500 years , and divide and confuse Christians. Just what Satan would want (assuming he exists), divide the flock so he can conquer.
Jesus promised he built his Church on Peter, first Bishop of Rome (Pope) and the promise that the gates of Hell would not prevail against her. Some people make Jesus look like the most incompetent shepherd there ever was, waiting over 1500 years to build a Church that wasn't a Satanic abomination.
Furthermore, what I have seen from following the Bible alone Doctrine, is a confusing mess (in my opinion), with no unity, and easily the worst affliction to ever strike Christianity! To divide and conquer , would be the strategy of the Devil, and there is much evidence to suggest that nothing has done more to confuse and divide the flock than the UNBIBLICAL Sola Scriptura Doctrine that Protestantism was founded on.
Some protestants also refer to the Catholic Church as "Prostitute, Whore of Babylon, Religion of the Antichrist"! This is extremely judgmental and sometimes becomes very hateful, condemning over a billion Christians as being hell bound followers of Satan and the Antichrist's whore of Babylon. When I try to see things through that lense, I get very depressed, and feel terrible about God.
Some Protestants often deny that Jesus was really present in the Eucharist. Jesus never said the bread and wine was a representation of his body and blood. He said "This is my body, this is my blood". The lamb in the Old Testament had to be eaten. Jesus was the lamb of God who said "unless you eat of the flesh , and drink of the blood of the Son of Man, you have no life in you". (John 6)
It was the first time in Christ's ministry where he lost followers. It was over that teaching. The people who abandoned Christ in John 6 fall into the same error and Heresy as Protestants who deny or attack the Catholic teaching about the Eucharist!
And keep in mind. The people who abandoned Christ over the teaching about the Eucharist and Holy Communion, were not people that Jesus called back. Jesus didn't say "Wait a minute, I didn't mean literally. Please, let me explain. I meant bread and wine that represents me". Neither did Jesus at the last supper say anything about it representing anything, in any of the last supper accounts. It was completely literal words in all accounts, in all Gospels. He never once used words of symbolism!
Some people who call themselves Christian are being completely unbiblical and are at war with the teachings of Jesus Christ in every Gospel. Some "Bible Christians" are opposed to the word of God! Some protestants are actually opposed to one of the most important teachings of Jesus. Jesus said that those who refuse to embrace that teaching have no life in them, are spiritually bankrupt, are spiritually dead.
I don't agree with Christ, but those were his strong words and a warning to people who push what many protestants are pushing, to cut people off, and alienate them from God and grace!
In the world book encyclopedia, a non Catholic book, there is an unbreakable chain of Popes dating back to Peter, first Bishop of Rome. The second was Linus in 67 AD. Protestants have no evidence that I know of for valid sacramental priesthood, Bishops, or valid sacrament of ordination. The Catholic Bishops, Pope, and priesthood, can trace itself back to Peter and the Apostles.
View attachment 61927 View attachment 61928
Does anyone remember when my name used to be PopeADope?
This is a debate. Please debate something I said. Show me that I am wrong, mistaken, and that some Protestants know their Bible better than I do.
Truth&Hope
Jesus Freak
Question: are you saying that Catholicism is Christianity?It is true, Catholics are notorious for not knowing Scripture well. But having spent time at monasteries, where you go to daily Mass, and hear more Scripture read to you over a period of 6 months than attending Protestant services for years, and getting to know Catholics who actually know their Bible, it is remarkable.
A catholic who knows their Bible can easily defeat a Protestant in a debate! In fact, I have seen Protestants who knew their Bible really well, it lead them into the Catholic Church, and then they debate with a Protestant on EWTN, and they win the debate so easily, it looked like Muhammad Ali in the ring with a poodle (total and complete victory for the Catholic), because the entire basis for the Protestants argument, the foundation, was completely unbiblical!
Here is why: Protestantism is is actually a system of Religion that is built on a foundation that blows up on it's own. Protestantism is based off of Sola scriptura Doctrine that is found no where in Scripture. Many Protestants often say, "we only follow the Bible". But they have no basis for doing so. The Bible doesn't say to do that!
In fact, Scripture says the opposite. Scripture makes it very clear that people need an official interpreter of Scripture, and that people twist Scripture to their own destruction.
Matthew 18 "tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector." So, the Bible says nothing about using the Bible as the final authority on anything. The Bible actually makes it clear that to do so is dangerous and destructive. The Bible says to listen to and obey the Church.
The first Christians were not Bible Christians! That is clearly obvious! The Bible is a Catholic book that was not available to anyone until the Catholic Church councils at Rome, Carthage, and Hippo.
Every Christian Church on the face of the earth had devotion to Mary and the Saints for over 1500 years, and to me I tend to believe that if Christ is a man of his word, he would shepherd his Church better than that, if such practices were an abomination.
Most Protestants deny that Mary is "Mother of God", stating that every Christian Church on earth was mistaken , and was Idolatrous, and most Protestants believe veneration of Mary and Saints is Demonic. That is thoroughly depressing and nauseating (in my opinion), because when I try to look at history that way, I see God look evil, pathetic, a thoroughly terrible Father in my opinion, a thoroughly terrible shepherd, and a liar who can't be trusted, because he abandoned Christians, and let all Churches on earth (for over 1500 years) fall into demonic practice.
Nothing against Protestants, because I'm sure many Protestants are more holy, better people than myself. But when I try to see history from that point of view, that all churches on earth were sanctioning prayers to demons + Satanic abominations, I simply find it incompatible with a loving responsible God, who is faithful to his word.
Jesus had a biological earthly mother at the nativity, one mother who nursed, breastfed God, one mother who gave birth to God, one mother the Angel said "Hail full of grace, rejoice highly favored one". Scripture calls Mary "The Mother of my Lord" google "who am I that the mother of my Lord should visit me", Scripture says "all generations shall call Mary blessed", the hail Mary is a Biblical prayer.
Scripture says "the word was God...the word became flesh and dwelt among us", Jesus is God.
Protestants sometimes teach erroneous Doctrines that seem to deny the Divinity of Christ, which the Bible says otherwise.
Mary was at the foot of the cross with Christ. Jesus told John, "son behold thy mother."
Scripture says in revelation, a sign in the sky, a woman standing on the Moon, clothed with the Sun, on her head a crown of stars. Scripture says the woman is the mother of those who follow God's commandments. She battles the Dragon. Revelation 12. The Mother of God.
Many people claim to be a friend of Christ, yet they genuinely despise his bride, the Church!
I have difficult time trusting such people. It would seem those who cause division and confusion, are teaching dangerous Doctrines (according to the Gospel) that were not part of Christianity for over 1500 years , and divide and confuse Christians. Just what Satan would want (assuming he exists), divide the flock so he can conquer.
Jesus promised he built his Church on Peter, first Bishop of Rome (Pope) and the promise that the gates of Hell would not prevail against her. Some people make Jesus look like the most incompetent shepherd there ever was, waiting over 1500 years to build a Church that wasn't a Satanic abomination.
Furthermore, what I have seen from following the Bible alone Doctrine, is a confusing mess (in my opinion), with no unity, and easily the worst affliction to ever strike Christianity! To divide and conquer , would be the strategy of the Devil, and there is much evidence to suggest that nothing has done more to confuse and divide the flock than the UNBIBLICAL Sola Scriptura Doctrine that Protestantism was founded on.
Some protestants also refer to the Catholic Church as "Prostitute, Whore of Babylon, Religion of the Antichrist"! This is extremely judgmental and sometimes becomes very hateful, condemning over a billion Christians as being hell bound followers of Satan and the Antichrist's whore of Babylon. When I try to see things through that lense, I get very depressed, and feel terrible about God.
Some Protestants often deny that Jesus was really present in the Eucharist. Jesus never said the bread and wine was a representation of his body and blood. He said "This is my body, this is my blood". The lamb in the Old Testament had to be eaten. Jesus was the lamb of God who said "unless you eat of the flesh , and drink of the blood of the Son of Man, you have no life in you". (John 6)
It was the first time in Christ's ministry where he lost followers. It was over that teaching. The people who abandoned Christ in John 6 fall into the same error and Heresy as Protestants who deny or attack the Catholic teaching about the Eucharist!
And keep in mind. The people who abandoned Christ over the teaching about the Eucharist and Holy Communion, were not people that Jesus called back. Jesus didn't say "Wait a minute, I didn't mean literally. Please, let me explain. I meant bread and wine that represents me". Neither did Jesus at the last supper say anything about it representing anything, in any of the last supper accounts. It was completely literal words in all accounts, in all Gospels. He never once used words of symbolism!
Some people who call themselves Christian are being completely unbiblical and are at war with the teachings of Jesus Christ in every Gospel. Some "Bible Christians" are opposed to the word of God! Some protestants are actually opposed to one of the most important teachings of Jesus. Jesus said that those who refuse to embrace that teaching have no life in them, are spiritually bankrupt, are spiritually dead.
I don't agree with Christ, but those were his strong words and a warning to people who push what many protestants are pushing, to cut people off, and alienate them from God and grace!
In the world book encyclopedia, a non Catholic book, there is an unbreakable chain of Popes dating back to Peter, first Bishop of Rome. The second was Linus in 67 AD. Protestants have no evidence that I know of for valid sacramental priesthood, Bishops, or valid sacrament of ordination. The Catholic Bishops, Pope, and priesthood, can trace itself back to Peter and the Apostles.
View attachment 61927 View attachment 61928
Does anyone remember when my name used to be PopeADope?
This is a debate. Please debate something I said. Show me that I am wrong, mistaken, and that some Protestants know their Bible better than I do.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
Yes, it is the Church Jesus founded!
Spiderman
Veteran Member
Jesus and the Holy Spirit told me that they are honored when I honor and bless the mother of jesus.
Every hail Mary contains a blessing for Jesus christ. It contains the words," blessed is the fruit of thy womb jesus."
Scripture says that those who sow in blessings, will reap in blessings. Most of the hail Mary is contained in the Gospels, and is the words of the angel gabriel, and elizabeth, the mother of John the baptist.
Jesus condemned vain repetitious prayers, but not all repetition is vain. Some of the Psalms repeat the same phrase over and over and over again. When Jesus prayed at the garden of Gethsemane, he prayed the same prayer three times in a row. If you repeat the same prayer, but you pray sincerely from the heart, that is not vain repetition. Especially if it is a blessing.
Jesus willed that his mother appear at fatima, Lourdes, guadalupe, and many other places, and work many miracles and miraculous conversion of countless millions of people, through miracles linked to the rosary.
The rosary won the battle of lepanto, and sunk the Ottoman Empire fleet, known as "the battle that saved the west".
If the crusaders lost that battle against the advancing ottoman empire, Italy and much of Europe would have fallen to the Ottoman empire, and Saint Peter's basilica would have been turned into a mosque, and many Italians, and much of Europe would have been forced to practice islam.
At Fatima Portugal, Mary told Shepherd children about the coming of world war ii, the rise and spread of Communism, and future events that would happen, she promised a miracle to everybody who showed up at a certain location, and 70,000 people were given a vision of the Sun dancing.
Many communist atheists wrote about the miracle they saw, and it converted them.
Mary just asked people to be pure of heart, do deeds of charity, offer up their sufferings, fast, pray, make sacrifices, and glorify jesus. There's nothing evil about it. If it isn't your thing, I understand. Nobody's telling you that you have to pray the rosary.
But Mary's requests are always for people to love her son jesus, and live more virtuous pure, disciplined lives, with higher moral standards. Therefore it's not evil and is not from hell.
Truth&Hope
Jesus Freak
It is true, Catholics are notorious for not knowing Scripture well. But having spent time at monasteries, where you go to daily Mass, and hear more Scripture read to you over a period of 6 months than attending Protestant services for years, and getting to know Catholics who actually know their Bible, it is remarkable.
A catholic who knows their Bible can easily defeat a Protestant in a debate! In fact, I have seen Protestants who knew their Bible really well, it lead them into the Catholic Church, and then they debate with a Protestant on EWTN, and they win the debate so easily, it looked like Muhammad Ali in the ring with a poodle (total and complete victory for the Catholic), because the entire basis for the Protestants argument, the foundation, was completely unbiblical!
Here is why: Protestantism is is actually a system of Religion that is built on a foundation that blows up on it's own. Protestantism is based off of Sola scriptura Doctrine that is found no where in Scripture. Many Protestants often say, "we only follow the Bible". But they have no basis for doing so. The Bible doesn't say to do that!
In fact, Scripture says the opposite. Scripture makes it very clear that people need an official interpreter of Scripture, and that people twist Scripture to their own destruction.
Matthew 18 "tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector." So, the Bible says nothing about using the Bible as the final authority on anything. The Bible actually makes it clear that to do so is dangerous and destructive. The Bible says to listen to and obey the Church.
The first Christians were not Bible Christians! That is clearly obvious! The Bible is a Catholic book that was not available to anyone until the Catholic Church councils at Rome, Carthage, and Hippo.
Every Christian Church on the face of the earth had devotion to Mary and the Saints for over 1500 years, and to me I tend to believe that if Christ is a man of his word, he would shepherd his Church better than that, if such practices were an abomination.
Most Protestants deny that Mary is "Mother of God", stating that every Christian Church on earth was mistaken , and was Idolatrous, and most Protestants believe veneration of Mary and Saints is Demonic. That is thoroughly depressing and nauseating (in my opinion), because when I try to look at history that way, I see God look evil, pathetic, a thoroughly terrible Father in my opinion, a thoroughly terrible shepherd, and a liar who can't be trusted, because he abandoned Christians, and let all Churches on earth (for over 1500 years) fall into demonic practice.
Nothing against Protestants, because I'm sure many Protestants are more holy, better people than myself. But when I try to see history from that point of view, that all churches on earth were sanctioning prayers to demons + Satanic abominations, I simply find it incompatible with a loving responsible God, who is faithful to his word.
Jesus had a biological earthly mother at the nativity, one mother who nursed, breastfed God, one mother who gave birth to God, one mother the Angel said "Hail full of grace, rejoice highly favored one". Scripture calls Mary "The Mother of my Lord" google "who am I that the mother of my Lord should visit me", Scripture says "all generations shall call Mary blessed", the hail Mary is a Biblical prayer.
Scripture says "the word was God...the word became flesh and dwelt among us", Jesus is God.
Protestants sometimes teach erroneous Doctrines that seem to deny the Divinity of Christ, which the Bible says otherwise.
Mary was at the foot of the cross with Christ. Jesus told John, "son behold thy mother."
Scripture says in revelation, a sign in the sky, a woman standing on the Moon, clothed with the Sun, on her head a crown of stars. Scripture says the woman is the mother of those who follow God's commandments. She battles the Dragon. Revelation 12. The Mother of God.
Many people claim to be a friend of Christ, yet they genuinely despise his bride, the Church!
I have difficult time trusting such people. It would seem those who cause division and confusion, are teaching dangerous Doctrines (according to the Gospel) that were not part of Christianity for over 1500 years , and divide and confuse Christians. Just what Satan would want (assuming he exists), divide the flock so he can conquer.
Jesus promised he built his Church on Peter, first Bishop of Rome (Pope) and the promise that the gates of Hell would not prevail against her. Some people make Jesus look like the most incompetent shepherd there ever was, waiting over 1500 years to build a Church that wasn't a Satanic abomination.
Furthermore, what I have seen from following the Bible alone Doctrine, is a confusing mess (in my opinion), with no unity, and easily the worst affliction to ever strike Christianity! To divide and conquer , would be the strategy of the Devil, and there is much evidence to suggest that nothing has done more to confuse and divide the flock than the UNBIBLICAL Sola Scriptura Doctrine that Protestantism was founded on.
Some protestants also refer to the Catholic Church as "Prostitute, Whore of Babylon, Religion of the Antichrist"! This is extremely judgmental and sometimes becomes very hateful, condemning over a billion Christians as being hell bound followers of Satan and the Antichrist's whore of Babylon. When I try to see things through that lense, I get very depressed, and feel terrible about God.
Some Protestants often deny that Jesus was really present in the Eucharist. Jesus never said the bread and wine was a representation of his body and blood. He said "This is my body, this is my blood". The lamb in the Old Testament had to be eaten. Jesus was the lamb of God who said "unless you eat of the flesh , and drink of the blood of the Son of Man, you have no life in you". (John 6)
It was the first time in Christ's ministry where he lost followers. It was over that teaching. The people who abandoned Christ in John 6 fall into the same error and Heresy as Protestants who deny or attack the Catholic teaching about the Eucharist!
And keep in mind. The people who abandoned Christ over the teaching about the Eucharist and Holy Communion, were not people that Jesus called back. Jesus didn't say "Wait a minute, I didn't mean literally. Please, let me explain. I meant bread and wine that represents me". Neither did Jesus at the last supper say anything about it representing anything, in any of the last supper accounts. It was completely literal words in all accounts, in all Gospels. He never once used words of symbolism!
Some people who call themselves Christian are being completely unbiblical and are at war with the teachings of Jesus Christ in every Gospel. Some "Bible Christians" are opposed to the word of God! Some protestants are actually opposed to one of the most important teachings of Jesus. Jesus said that those who refuse to embrace that teaching have no life in them, are spiritually bankrupt, are spiritually dead.
I don't agree with Christ, but those were his strong words and a warning to people who push what many protestants are pushing, to cut people off, and alienate them from God and grace!
In the world book encyclopedia, a non Catholic book, there is an unbreakable chain of Popes dating back to Peter, first Bishop of Rome. The second was Linus in 67 AD. Protestants have no evidence that I know of for valid sacramental priesthood, Bishops, or valid sacrament of ordination. The Catholic Bishops, Pope, and priesthood, can trace itself back to Peter and the Apostles.
View attachment 61927 View attachment 61928
Does anyone remember when my name used to be PopeADope?
This is a debate. Please debate something I said. Show me that I am wrong, mistaken, and that some Protestants know their Bible better than I do.
So, the Holy Bible is God’s book and does not belong to the catholic
The apostles were the first Christians.
Romans founded the Roman Catholic Church. Then came the Reformation.
The "Holy bible" (NT), came from the Roman Catholic Church, and according to Yeshua's message regarding the "kingdom", (Matthew 13:39-42), it is an assimilation of the message (tare seed) of the devil, combined with the message of the "son of man" (the bread of life without the leaven of the Pharisee). The "apostles" were Jewish, and except for the false prophet, the self professed apostle Paul, they were not "Christian". Even the "worthless shepherd" Peter (Zechariah 11:16-17), according to Paul, was an apostle to the Jews (Galatians 2:7).
I don't think you honor anyone by praying to the dead. If they had ears, they certainly wouldn't want to hear the pleas of the sinners. Judgment is dealt out to the sinners by God, and why would the dead want to circumvent the justice of God, who himself does not listen to the pleas of the sinner. (John 9:31)
Spiderman
Veteran Member
The Apostle Peter, was the chief Bishop, the first Bishop of Rome. The second Bishop of Rome was Linus, in 67 AD , successor of Apostle Peter!
The Catholic Church gave the world the first Christian bible, and the only reason Protestants know they have the correct New Testament Canon (the right collection of books) as the correct Scriptures, is because the Catholic Church declared those books were inspired Scripture.
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Spiderman
Veteran Member
You don't know that.
If the Saints wanted to make the world a better while on earth, even more so do they want to do so in heaven, where they are with God.
Scripture makes it clear the dead go on living, in multiple places in Scripture, the dead are seen by the living, like Jesus with Moses and Elijah on Mount Tabor, and other places, Jesus even makes it clear that the dead interact with other dead people, and Samuel told Saul in the Old Testament, that soon he would join him , in the world of the dead.
I have experienced first hand that the dead influence the living, and the Virgin Mary appearing at Guadalupe to leave an image that scientists declare to not be a painting, that converted over 15 million Aztecs, and much of central and South America.
I have enough evidence to know that you are mistaken, and nothing in the Bible says every practice must be found in the Bible to be good, holy, beneficial, or effective, but there is plenty in the Bible to support faith in the dead caring about earth, and blessing the living with their prayers.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
You are mistaken. The Bible makes it very clear that all are sinners, and King David was a murderer and adulterer, and God forgave him and heard his prayers.
Jacob was blessed by God for stealing, lying to, dishonoring, and deceiving his Father. God blessed and rewarded him for it, with the greatest blessing I have ever seen.
God went on to bless and reward Jacob for committing violence against a manifestation of God, saying "you have fought with God, and you have fought with man, and you have won."
God blessed and hears the prayers of sinners throughout Scripture. Peter denied Christ three times.
11 of the twelve Apostles fled like cowards when it was time for the crucifixion.
God hears the prayers of sinners. It's very Biblical, and extremely unbiblical to think otherwise.
Sometimes the Bible doesn't mean what it says, which is why Jesus gave us a Church to help us interpret it properly!
David, repented, confessed his sin, and went on to produce good fruit, and did not sin again, and at the "end of the age" take rulership of the "kingdom" (Ezekiel 37:22-28). I don't know, can you say the same. With respect to sinning, when one "repents", one turns away from sin, and when one is "anointed" in the Spirit of God, as in being born in the seed (Word) of God, they no longer continue to sin, for they cannot. (1 John 3:9). There are two types of seeds, the tare seed, the message of lawlessness, the message of the devil (Matthew 13:39-42) and the wheat seed, the message of the son of man, which would be the bread of life, without the leaven of the Pharisee. If God and "Jesus" are talking to you, why do you need to pray to the dead?
Spiderman
Veteran Member
I never said anyone needs to pray to the dead. However, having friends in high places, people that are as cool to me, make more sense, more merciful, more sweet, less jealous, and less wrathful and not cruel, like the God that the Bible describes, people like @JustGeorge
who strike me as being less wrathful, less narcissistic, less jealous, or less sadistic as the God Scripture describes.Good intercessors can intercede before God, to get God to change his mind, that is biblical, Jesus worked his first miracle, and didn't even want to work the miracle, but did it in obedience to his mother.
He said his hour had not yet come, and he didn't want to turn water into wine, but he did it because his mother asked him to. It means Mary can get Jesus to do what he doesn't want to do.
I want to have friends in high places like that. Also, having friends and spirit family that I really truly love and cherish, can motivate me to do good deeds, better than just relation with God alone, and they are one with god, they are filled with God's spirit, they lead me to god, and I needed a healthy mother growing up, and I didn't have one.
Having female friends, and maternal figures + sisters in Christ, helps me get what love I should have gotten from my mother, and heals the damage that my mother did to me.
Plus, as I said, it is biblical, that Mary can get Jesus to do what he doesn't want to do. Meaning she's a friend I would want to have on my side. She can get God to behave in ways that are more generous than God wants to behave in. That's actually biblical, and was entirely the reason Jesus worked his first miracle, when he said his hour had not yet come, and he didn't want to do it. He did it reluctantly. He obeys his mother.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Nope. The name "Catholic" was used as the main name of the Church long before Constantine, plus the Romans certainly didn't found the Church as they were the oppressors of the Church.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
Amen! The ignorance some people have regarding the history of the Catholic Church is completely mind boggling.
I never said anyone needs to pray to the dead. However, having friends in high places, people that are as cool to me, make more sense, more merciful, more sweet, less jealous, and less wrathful and not cruel, like the God that the Bible describes, people like @JustGeorge
It goes unsaid that Catholics pray to Mary, who is dead, as when they come out of confession, the priest told them to say 10 "Hail Marys" for the forgiveness of their sins. They can pray to Mary, but their sins remain, and Mary remains in her grave, from which she can not hear nor speak, despite the rants of the misled many. As for judging God, one does it at their own peril. Letting the wicked prevail, as done in Portland, San Francisco, and New York, kind of comes upon one's own head if left to go on. Now that the woke left Progressive are being mugged, robbed, and car jacked in their own neighborhoods, they are probably going to reconsider their woke point of view. The only hold outs so far are apparently over educated women, and liberal Jews.