Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
Are you suggesting that "all belief is fundamentally illusory" is not a belief? Do you realize that the laws of physics are relative? Have you ever heard of the Theory of Relativity?
Everything we know is belief.
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Prove that humans aren't blind to God's existence
- Thread starter tomspug
- Start date
Are you suggesting that "all belief is fundamentally illusory" is not a belief? Do you realize that the laws of physics are relative? Have you ever heard of the Theory of Relativity?
Everything we know is belief.
keith_Thornton
New Member
I question whether everything at it's core is a belief. I also question why people accept belief as reality. Why should I believe at all? Is it so I can feel comfortable knowing that I will go to some heaven when I die, an infinitely pleasurable state, which is nonsense. Or should I live in fear believing that I will be punished for my imperfections? I do not have to believe in the sun: it is. I do not have to believe in the trees, the ocean near my house, the vehicles on the road; there existence is fact. Why should I project a state beyond my death? When I die, I will. Now, I live. I am a human being typing on a computer: this is a fact. One may make an abstraction of the fact, but this is again belief. You advocate that everything is a belief, but I question if there is not a fundamental difference between belief and the mind that is directly perceiving. When you are in a situation and you do not know, or you are learning something, is your mind not absent of belief? Must you not listen without the cloud of belief?
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
Would the world still exist, if you were not alive to experience it?
keith_Thornton
New Member
Of course. When I die, the world will go on existing.
Reality is independent of experience. This is what is meant by objective.
keith_Thornton
New Member
I am not an expert on the Theory of Relativity, so here is a wikipedia excerpt:
Special relativity is a theory of the structure of spacetime. It was introduced in Albert Einstein's 1905 paper "On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies". Special relativity is based on two postulates which are contradictory in classical mechanics:
- The laws of physics are the same for all observers in uniform motion relative to one another (Galileo's principle of relativity),
- The speed of light in a vacuum is the same for all observers, regardless of their relative motion or of the motion of the source of the light.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
How do you know that?
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
I didn't say they were based on belief, but "the same for all observers in uniform motion relative to one another" says exactly "the same for all observers relative to one another". I'm no expert on the theory either. The point is that everything is relative, and the Theory of Relativity is a good example to show that. We project our beliefs onto other things, but they're still beliefs.
Another question for you: What is color?
How would you know if you're dead?
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The experience of seeing various perceptible wavelengths of light.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
OK, I'll go with that. It was meant more for keith, though. The point being that we see color, and think of it as an objective part of reality, but it's obviously seen differently by everyone, especially color-blind people.
little_monkey
atheist
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
Thanks for confirming my opinion of you.
little_monkey
atheist
Oh my, and we hardly know each other. Please enlighten me with your genius as to what you think of me, of course within the context of this thread or from your philosophical pov. Hope it's none of that "everything is an illusion", or "truth is in your reality". You do know what I think of those meaningless propositions, don't you?
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
It's enough that you call them "meaningless propositions" and dismiss them outright.
little_monkey
atheist
Yes, I suppose that is very enlighting, though not in the way you might think. I suppose they are as meaningful as the argument theologians carried in medieval time about how many angels could sit on the head of a pin.
Now that we know each other a little more, it was a pleasure meeting you...
keith_Thornton
New Member
Color blind individuals have an inability to perceive differences between some of the colors that others can distinguish. You are suggesting that this deficiency means there is not objective color. Do you also suggest that because one person is completely blind there exists no visual form, that because one person does not see there is nothing to be seen?
keith_Thornton
New Member
Can death be known? As human beings we know that we will die. Our bodies decay and we fall ill, or we are killed in an accident. But can one know death, which is the complete ending of everything: your memories, your physical existence (unless you are cryogenically frozen), and all that you have stored up in your mind. Death strikes at the heart of why people believe. Being faced with the complete unknown, there is a mental projection arising from fear onto the unknown which is an attempt to know the unknown. The actual fact is that death cannot be known. The escape from the fact of the unknown is an attempt to know death through belief.
mohammed_beiruti
Active Member
Agreed ,
As a muslim My faith is "No God But Allah" the default assumption
Surah 3:18
18. There is no god but He: That is the witness of Allah, His angels, and those endued with knowledge, standing firm on justice. There is no god but He, the Exalted in Power, the Wise
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