Proving the existence of Allah (swt) to an atheist

[Fatihah]

And as we have pointed out, you do not have to see the penetration to know what is going on.

Response: And there we have it ladies and gentlemen. A person who knows that knows for a fact that sex is taking place despite the fact that he admittingly knows that he can not see any penetration, which without such evidence, it's impossible to know if sex is taking place. Signed. Sealed. Delivered. Any person can see just how absurd and irrational such logic is.

 

[Kerr]

Response: And there we have it ladies and gentlemen. A person who knows that knows for a fact that sex is taking place despite the fact that he admittingly knows that he can not see any penetration, which without such evidence, it's impossible to know if sex is taking place. Signed. Sealed. Delivered. Any person can see just how absurd and irrational such logic is.

I said that for the same reason I would know two people would have sex when I saw it, top claim you can´t do that is only irrational.

 

[Aquitaine]

For the third time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmwRLh3tQxQ


Fatihah, if you're going to deny like that, then you may aswell deny a male and female couple of dogs are having sex too, just because (by the angle of the camera) you can't see the penetration.

Nevermind, we've wasted like 20 pages of this thread trying to inform you of Homo-Sexuality in animals, from photos, to videos, to scientific journals.

You are in denial, because your whole believe system is structured around Homo-Sexuality being something us Kuffar "Sinners" invented.

 

[Kerr]

For the third time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmwRLh3tQxQ


Fatihah, if you're going to deny like that, then you may aswell deny a male and female couple of dogs are having sex too, just because (by the angle of the camera) you can't see the penetration.

Nevermind, we've wasted like 20 pages of this thread trying to inform you of Homo-Sexuality in animals, from photos, to videos, to scientific journals.

You are in denial, because your whole believe system is structured around Homo-Sexuality being something us Kuffar "Sinners" invented.

Maybe we should not post more videos... they won´t make any difference anyway, and, no offence to anyone, but all those animals... it is kind of disgusting.

 

[YmirGF]

You are in denial, because your whole believe system is structured around Homo-Sexuality being something us Kuffar "Sinners" invented.

The key here is Fatihah's use of the term "common sense". To many Muslims, Fatihah's point WOULD make perfect sense as they share certain root assumption about reality. Fatihah's position is only peculiar from outside of those root assumptions. This is why he would not accept a single lick of evidence from you as it would cause a crack in his world view. I would be willing to bet that even if two dogs did it right in front of him he would simply pretend the event out of existence and perhaps decide to go lay down - because he would likely tell himself that he was seeing things.

I think what neither side in this argument appreciates is role played by ones personal beliefs about reality and how those beliefs directly affect their experience of said reality. From a witness POV neither side is wrong in how they have viewed the video's. Those who believe that such acts are commonplace (often backed by direct experience - in the field, as it were) will see two animals mating or attempting to mate. Those who do not believe such things are even possible are unlikely to view the exact same video and draw the same conclusions. Hence we could up with common expressions like: "I don't believe I am seeing this!" or "Can you believe this!" and "If I didn't see it; I wouldn't have believed it was possible."

*Back to your regular programming*

 

[Aquitaine]

The key here is Fatihah's use of the term "common sense". To many Muslims, Fatihah's point WOULD make perfect sense as they share certain root assumption about reality. Fatihah's position is only peculiar from outside of those root assumptions. This is why he would not accept a single lick of evidence from you as it would cause a crack in his world view. I would be willing to bet that even if two dogs did it right in front of him he would simply pretend the event out of existence and perhaps decide to go lay down - because he would likely tell himself that he was seeing things.

Given his and eselams total denial, that does actually make sense.

 

[nonbeliever_92]

it isn't natural.

If you could prove that there's something wrong with the "mechanics" of homosexuals, how could you then say that it's not natural. I'm not saying that it's not a disease, but isn't cancer natural? diabetes? influenza? the common cold? lou gericks? and even if something is wrong naturally, you'd have to show how it's a problem overall.

 

[monta]

Maybe we should not post more videos... they won´t make any difference anyway, and, no offence to anyone, but all those animals... it is kind of disgusting.

:hug: do you need to talk to a counsellor?

 

[monta]

Response: And there we have it ladies and gentlemen. A person who knows that knows for a fact that sex is taking place despite the fact that he admittingly knows that he can not see any penetration, which without such evidence, it's impossible to know if sex is taking place. Signed. Sealed. Delivered. Any person can see just how absurd and irrational such logic is.

So you are waiting for the money shot before you admit you are completely and utterly and pathetically mistaken ,I'll google it but it seems unlikely that it exists.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Mod advisory
Please stay on topic and refrain from personal comments.
Thanks

I apologize. I called someone "ignorant" and I will refrain from using that word.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Maybe we should not post more videos... they won´t make any difference anyway, and, no offence to anyone, but all those animals... it is kind of disgusting.

I hear ya...Some people are more visually informed than others. We posted articles for their reading pleasure and too go ignored.....

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Response: Still speaking about your imagination? And is that video supposed to be proof of oral sex between monkeys? LOL!! Please get a grip and hold on.

I don't mean to be rude when posting the links and unfortunately the people filming them title them in their own way. There's at least one or two videos that are more documentary oriented... With that said..it still shows that this type of activity occurs. This isn't something new. We've known about this for a very log time. Here's and article that talks about the different primates as well as a few other animals.

Primates and Sea Mammals - Sexuality of the Young

 

[Fatihah]

For the third time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmwRLh3tQxQ


Fatihah, if you're going to deny like that, then you may aswell deny a male and female couple of dogs are having sex too, just because (by the angle of the camera) you can't see the penetration.

Nevermind, we've wasted like 20 pages of this thread trying to inform you of Homo-Sexuality in animals, from photos, to videos, to scientific journals.

You are in denial, because your whole believe system is structured around Homo-Sexuality being something us Kuffar "Sinners" invented.

Response: Post 825 of page 83 proves to the contrary.

 

[Fatihah]

The key here is Fatihah's use of the term "common sense". To many Muslims, Fatihah's point WOULD make perfect sense as they share certain root assumption about reality. Fatihah's position is only peculiar from outside of those root assumptions. This is why he would not accept a single lick of evidence from you as it would cause a crack in his world view. I would be willing to bet that even if two dogs did it right in front of him he would simply pretend the event out of existence and perhaps decide to go lay down - because he would likely tell himself that he was seeing things.

Response: Likewise. Except the only exception for you is that no such proof is actually needed or required because, after all, proof has never been your forte.

 

[Gharib]

Ok, eselam, let me ask you some questions. One, assuming only humans are homosexuals, what does that mean?

it means that some humans are homosexual. they need help.

Second, assuming homosexuality is common among animals (which actually seems to be the case, and I have yet to see anything pointing to something else), how would that affect you? What is it with that, that you dislike so much?

i haven't seen any proof that animals are homosexual. i have seen some photos that seem to tell nothing. other than that. :no: evidence.

 

[Fatihah]

So you are waiting for the money shot before you admit you are completely and utterly and pathetically mistaken ,I'll google it but it seems unlikely that it exists.

Response: Exactly. You show me actual video of anal or oral sex between two animals in which we can actually see penetration, and not these feeble attempts by others who see two animals humping and say "if their humping, it must mean sex", I'll throw my kufi from atop of my head and denounce islam tomorrow in front of everyone. That's a promise.

 

[Gharib]

Originally Posted by richardlowellt
I know perfectly well what comprehension means, it means I understand. I understand a belief in a mythical being, my children believed in Santa Claus for a long time, I see no difference between Santa and Allah, both are myths.

sorry my mistake. i now see that you can comprehend. but i also see you can't tell the difference between a myth (fairy tale) and reality.

You say I have a lack of understanding but I perfectly understand what you believe in.

please go on. what do i believe in? prove it that you know.

You believe that Allah causes rain to fall,

you got this right. i will frubal you for it.

you believe science has no answers for anything,

you ruined it, i thought you knew what i believe in. thats not right at all.

that Allah is the cause of everything,

including rain, yes correct again.

you apparently cannot "comprehend" how the most basic science works,

no wrong again. 2 right 2 wrong up to now.

you prefer magic from an invisible being rather than scientific principals that operate here in the real world.

sort of. i believe in the unseen and in the seen. i believe in what Allah says. and in islam we must seek for kowledge under which science is a branch. so i never said i deny science.

 

[Fatihah]

i haven't seen any proof that animals are homosexual. i have seen some photos that seem to tell nothing. other than that. :no: evidence.

Response: Yes dear brother. We've watched how they've posted photo after photo of non-evidence. Clearly, they don't show homosexuality. When people act this irrational, I let them be. It makes no sense to provide evidence good brother. It's a waste of time being rational to those who are irrational and refuse to use common sense. In such a case, the next best thing is to keep them presenting their alleged evidence. When you do so, those who are rational and open minded will see their feeble attempts, and that alone will discourage them from the falsehood they preach and instead, inquire about islam. And to those people, we provide proof.

 

[MissAlice]

Alright I wasn't going to put this but since I'm seeing bias comments about homosexuals I will say it, my cousin is homosexual.

He hadn't come out until he was 17 and then had to stay with us because his parents kicked him out. Now they were willing to accept him later on but even then he says it's hard to be around them when they bring up his sexuality. And yes, he's been ridiculed and called names. I think he's one of the nicest people I know and I know that he did not choose his sexual orientation. Both his brothers no longer communicate to him and I find so flipping odd how you people go on about how awful it is like a disease that I don't know what to say or why people like you exist.

As I know, it is understandable for people to dislike homosexuality merely because they've brought up that way, find it odd given a society they live in or just feel uncomfortable that a gender doesn't fit a certain cultural aspect as expected within a restricted society.

I love him to death and he is not sick nor has he chosen his lifestyle. He is simply not attracted to females. Other than that, he's been very productive which is more than I can say for my hetero brother who's in jail again. He's very good with my sister's kids and loves to paint with me. In fact, I find we have a lot in common when it comes to our interests.

And I will repeat myself, he is not sick nor has a disease. He's a normal human being like everyone else and has done a lot to contribut to this world. I really don't understand why you guys think that having children is the only contribution to society especially with it being as crowded as it is.

Just my two cents.

 

[Fatihah]

Both eselam and fatihah are experts at the act of denial. As evidenced throughout this thread.
It matters not what is presented to them, they will deny and ask for further proof.

Response: There's the statement. Where's the proof?