Proving the existence of Allah (swt) to an atheist

[Bismillah]

Why would the fact that animals participate in Homosexual behaviour be harmful to Islam in any way? Why the need to deny this?

Thank you kai, I've been wondering about this for a while now.

 

[YmirGF]

further info:

Roy and Silo, two male chinstrap penguins at New York's Central Park Zoo have been inseparable for six years now. They display classic pair-bonding behavior—entwining of necks, mutual preening, flipper flapping, and the rest. They also have sex, while ignoring potential female mates.

Homosexual Activity Among Animals Stirs Debate

Homosexual behaviour is a nearly universal phenomenon in the animal kingdom, according to a new study.

Homosexual behaviour widespread in animals according to new study - Telegraph

More on our friends Roy and Silo

Bisexual Species: Unorthodox Sex in the Animal Kingdom: Scientific American

Why would the fact that animals participate in Homosexual behaviour be harmful to Islam in any way? Why the need to deny this?

Thank you, Kai. I was beginning to think I had finally made everyone's ignore list, lol.

Bless Roy and Silo. I had forgotten about those little faggoty birds. Their story is really remarkable and from all accounts they are quite inseparable... and usually at very inconvenient times, lol.

 

[MissAlice]

well 2 men can't have children with one another. meaning the human population will start to decrease. and i'm affraid thats what disseases do.

Uh no, homosexuality is not contagious.

Like I said my cousin has two brothers who are not homosexual and homosexuality has been on this earth for a long time. I doubt the human race will ever decrease unless there's infantcide which seems to be a common practice among girls in some countries like China and china is still overcrowded.

 

[Bismillah]

Uh no, homosexuality is not contagious.

Like I said my cousin has two brothers who are not homosexual and homosexuality has been on this earth for a long time. I doubt the human race will ever decrease unless there's infantcide which seems to be a common practice among girls in some countries like China and china is still overcrowded.

What's your point? Eselam isn't arguing that homosexuality is genetic, he has stated that it is based off of choice. Also, perhaps he is using the word "disease" metaphorically?

 

[Kerr]

well 2 men can't have children with one another. meaning the human population will start to decrease. and i'm affraid thats what disseases do.

What kind of disease are you talking about, by the way? It cannot be a biological one, because then it would not be a choice. And I am not sure it can be a mental illness as well, since it does not hurt their ability to function in their life.

 

[Kerr]

What's your point? Eselam isn't arguing that homosexuality is genetic, he has stated that it is based off of choice. Also, perhaps he is using the word "disease" metaphorically?

Metaphorically for what?

 

[YmirGF]

well 2 men can't have children with one another. meaning the human population will start to decrease. and i'm affraid thats what disseases do.

Uh... the last time I checked, Eselam, over-population is perhaps the single biggest problem in the world today. ALL other problems stem from this one. A decrease in the human population would be quite beneficial to life on Earth in the long run. Perhaps rather than thinking of it as a disease you could think of it as a "Green" sex option that does not harm the planet.

What's your point? Eselam isn't arguing that homosexuality is genetic, he has stated that it is based off of choice. Also, perhaps he is using the word "disease" metaphorically?

I think if far more likely that the poor lad hasn't the foggiest idea what he talking about.

 

[Kerr]

Uh... the last time I checked, Eselam, over-population is perhaps the single biggest problem in the world today. ALL other problems stem from this one. A decrease in the human population would be quite beneficial to life on Earth in the long run. Perhaps rather than thinking of it as a disease you could think of it as a "Green" sex option that does not harm the planet.

Or maybe as a bliss sent by God to make sure we do not overpopulate .

 

[Bismillah]

Metaphorically for what?

Maybe that homosexuality is an abnormal side effect of a society without morals? I don't know I'm just point it out, "disease" doesn't have to be a medical condition.

 

[YmirGF]

Maybe that homosexuality is an abnormal side effect of a society without morals? I don't know I'm just point it out, "disease" doesn't have to be a medical condition.

More realistically, perhaps homosexuality is just a natural result of over-population.

 

[Kerr]

Maybe that homosexuality is an abnormal side effect of a society without morals? I don't know I'm just point it out, "disease" doesn't have to be a medical condition.

Maybe that is what he meant, must ask him about that.

Personally, though, I cannot say I agree with calling it that, since it exist everywhere, in all societies though out human history, no matter their "morals".

 

[MissAlice]

What's your point? Eselam isn't arguing that homosexuality is genetic, he has stated that it is based off of choice. Also, perhaps he is using the word "disease" metaphorically?

He argued...

well 2 men can't have children with one another. meaning the human population will start to decrease. and i'm affraid thats what disseases do.

I argued....

Uh no, homosexuality is not contagious.

Like I said my cousin has two brothers who are not homosexual and homosexuality has been on this earth for a long time. I doubt the human race will ever decrease unless there's infantcide which seems to be a common practice among girls in some countries like China and china is still overcrowded.

Note that I never argued about him saying it was genetic. I argued only what was in bold. And if you can't see his implication then I will elaborate. By him stating that...."meaning the human population will start to decrease. and i'm affraid thats what disseases do". _

What I stated was that homosexuality has been around for quite a long...long...long time and the human race is still going.

Now when he implies that it is a disease that will decrease the population, I'm assuming based off his ascertation that homosexuality will spread homosexuality. As I've said before, I don't believe it's a choice and my cousin had two brothers who were not gay. Did I mention they were homophobic too?

Sorry I should've mentioned that. As for disease, I really don't see how it can be used metaphorically or literally without some negative connotation. But already a negative connotation was implied that homosexuals shouldn't have children because they'll spread this disease as if "metaphorically" or not like a plague by decreasing the population.

 

[Bismillah]

Uh... the last time I checked, Eselam, over-population is perhaps the single biggest problem in the world today. ALL other problems stem from this one. A decrease in the human population would be quite beneficial to life on Earth in the long run. Perhaps rather than thinking of it as a disease you could think of it as a "Green" sex option that does not harm the planet.

It depends on his context. Assuming that he is speaking from an Islamic viewpoint then the Qur'an bans homosexuality for a prevalent reason. During the time of the Prophet, Arabia was plunged in tribal warfare. Thousands of years ago the life expectancy of a person in ancient Arabia was around 50. Coupled with the fact that the Ummah was engaged in crippling wars against other tribes, there was a shortage of men, the warriors and "bread earners". If the remaining warriors, theoretically, engaged in homosexual behavior, then wouldn't the population flatten out and eventually regress. For the progress of the Ummah itself, then it was necessary the males of society continue to start families. For the future of society itself. Though my knowledge of the subject of homosexuality is very limited.

 

[YmirGF]

It depends on his context. Assuming that he is speaking from an Islamic viewpoint then the Qur'an bans homosexuality for a prevalent reason. During the time of the Prophet, Arabia was plunged in tribal warfare. Thousands of years ago the life expectancy of a person in ancient Arabia was around 50. Coupled with the fact that the Ummah was engaged in crippling wars against other tribes, there was a shortage of men, the warriors and "bread earners". If the remaining warriors, theoretically, engaged in homosexual behavior, then wouldn't the population flatten out and eventually regress. For the progress of the Ummah itself, then it was necessary the males of society continue to start families. For the future of society itself. Though my knowledge of the subject of homosexuality is very limited.

Oh, I know all that. Don't you think it is about time to get past such primitive exhortations? With 1.5 billion adherents, Muslims can hardly use this as an excuse to breed like rabbits any longer.

 

[Bismillah]

Note that I never argued about him saying it was genetic. I argued only what was in bold. And if you can't see his implication then I will elaborate. By him stating that...."meaning the human population will start to decrease. and i'm affraid thats what disseases do". _

What I stated was that homosexuality has been around for quite a long...long...long time and the human race is still going.

Now when he implies that it is a disease that will decrease the population, I'm assuming based off his ascertation that homosexuality will spread homosexuality. As I've said before, I don't believe it's a choice and my cousin had two brothers who were not gay. Did I mention they were homophobic too?

Sorry I should've mentioned that. As for disease, I really don't see how it can be used metaphorically or literally without some negative connotation. But already a negative connotation was implied that homosexuals shouldn't have children because they'll spread this disease as if "metaphorically" or not like a plague by decreasing the population.

Now you went and confused me D: I read "homosexuality isn't contagious" which bought me to the conclusion that if homosexuality isn't contagious it isn't some type of genetic trait and therefore something done out of choice. Remembering that Eseslam was arguing that homosexuality is done out of choice, I assumed his "disease" comment was metaphorical, not an actual medical condition. But now you are arguing that it isn't a choice and he is, ok back to square one, whew.

I don't think he said homosexuals can't have children, or rather adopt them, he said that it is physically impossible for them to do so. I.e homosexuals wouldn't pervert the minds of adopted children (perhaps)

 

[Bismillah]

Oh, I know all that. Don't you think it is about time to get past such primitive exhortations? With 1.5 billion adherents, Muslims can hardly use this as an excuse to breed like rabbits any longer.

Ahem, breed like rabbits? How does it go "there's the statement where's the proof?".

This isn't an excuse. It's a fact why homosexuality would have had an adverse effect on the ancient Ummah and hence affected its chances of continuing. Obviously this seems pretty important.

 

[Kerr]

Now you went and confused me D: I read "homosexuality isn't contagious" which bought me to the conclusion that if homosexuality isn't contagious it isn't some type of genetic trait and therefore something done out of choice. Remembering that Eseslam was arguing that homosexuality is done out of choice, I assumed his "disease" comment was metaphorical, not an actual medical condition. But now you are arguing that it isn't a choice and he is, ok back to square one, whew.

ADHD isn´t contagious, and it has a genetic component. Besides, you paint it more black and white then it is. That something has a biological cause does not neccessarily mean it has a genetic.

 

[Kerr]

I don't think he said homosexuals can't have children, or rather adopt them, he said that it is physically impossible for them to do so. I.e homosexuals wouldn't pervert the minds of adopted children (perhaps)

Think he said it would before. Which of course is wrong.

 

[Bismillah]

ADHD isn´t contagious, and it has a genetic component.

Is ADHD a genetic trait? Can't it then be passed of to offspring or show up in later generations? If so, isn't that a "contagious".

 

[YmirGF]

This isn't an excuse. It's a fact why homosexuality would have had an adverse effect on the ancient Ummah and hence affected its chances of continuing. Obviously this seems pretty important.

That is precisely what it is. This was only essential when Islam was in its infancy. In a world of 7 billion people... this is no longer very wise counsel. You're not alone though, many religions haven't caught up with the reality they have had a hand in creating either. The time for unrestrained population growth is over and has been for many years.