Proving the existence of Allah (swt) to an atheist

[Commoner]

Sir, I am not saying that homosexuality is strictly choice. I have said it multiple times that it is influenced by environmental factors such as the impressionable early childhood stage.

Well, but you shouldn't really be proclaiming victory, since no one ever argued that we don't choose our actions.

 

[MSizer]

Sir, I am not saying that homosexuality is strictly choice. I have said it multiple times that it is influenced by environmental factors such as the impressionable early childhood stage.

I apologize. I admit to having assumed you were saying that in fact someone else had been arguing earlier. Sorry, I know that's a pain. Didn't do it on purpose - should have read deeper into the post.

 

[Bismillah]

We always have a choice who to have sex with. The question is, can we choose who we are attracted to.

If you are bisexual then yes you can choose which gender to prefer. It's not a case of being in love with only a specific gender.

His comment was sarcastic. You basically agreed that the only way to prove Allah was by accepting unfouded assumptions and using flawed logic. :areyoucra

Ah, I see. I blame lack of sleep.

Well, again, I'm no expert on the Qur'an - but aren't animals not capable of sin, in other words, they cannot stray from the natural disposition, right?

Animals cannot understand the results of their actions. They can commit sin, but they can't understand the meaning of committing said sin. Whereas Humans understand and have the ability to choose right from wrong.

 

[Bismillah]

The title of this thread is "Proving the existence of Allah (swt) to an atheist". Pick and choose what you wish to speak of mate. You asked for contradictions and I was pointing out that Patrick Sookhdeo speaks on the subject of Contradictions. (Hence the quote, here again, abridged, and bolded.)

What I understand is that this thread was moved to the debate forum. There wasn't supposed to be any debate here in the first place.

Claiming there are no contradictions in the Koran is blatantly false.

Show me (in the appropriate thread of course)

 

[Bismillah]

Well, but you shouldn't really be proclaiming victory, since no one ever argued that we don't choose our actions

It was sarcasm. You and I are both witnesses to the fact that the internet is terrible medium for it.

I apologize. I admit to having assumed you were saying that in fact someone else had been arguing earlier. Sorry, I know that's a pain. Didn't do it on purpose - should have read deeper into the post.

No problem, seem like I'm getting hassled from all sides though. Where are my brothers and sisters D:

 

[Bismillah]

Yes, I was agreeing.

So you are agreeing with me? Success!

 

[Commoner]

If you are bisexual then yes you can choose which gender to prefer. It's not a case of being in love with only a specific gender.

They can also like both genders equally. The point is, you don't choose who you like, wouldn't you agree?

Animals cannot understand the results of their actions. They can commit sin, but they can't understand the meaning of committing said sin. Whereas Humans understand and have the ability to choose right from wrong.

I'll have to take your word for it because my knowledge of the Qur'an is limited. But I must say that I'm a bit skeptical that it is really the accepted view that animals can go against "fitra".

 

[Commoner]

It was sarcasm. You and I are both witnesses to the fact that the internet is terrible medium for it.

You should have used one of these ->

No problem, seem like I'm getting hassled from all sides though. Where are my brothers and sisters D:

Yeah, it's really not fair that you're so outnumbered.

 

[Kerr]

And no, homosexuals would not have died out because that is not the way inheritance work and because there probably exist a reason for it to exist.

How genes are inherited is quite complex. For example, genes can be dominant (will always come to expression) and not dominant (will only come to expression if you have a dual set of them... I think that was it, anyway). Add to this that we all have a dual set of genes (I think), and we only get one gene for each pair from each parent. Add to this that it is possible things are caused by a combination of genes.

Beyond that genes can also be active and not active. That we have a gene does not mean it is "turned on".

This means that even a gene or gene combination that lower the chances of offspring does not have to disappear.

Note that this is simplified and is from what I remember from school... so take it with a grain of salt, I am not sure how well my memory serves.

 

[Kerr]

Success!

They don´t choose their sexuality, they are simply attracted to both genders. So they can choose their actions... but not their sexuality. If that was what you meant, though... then by all means, success, I never said anything against this anyway .

 

[Commoner]

Show me (in the appropriate thread of course)

Oh, just look at the link, you have them all neatly written down and cathegorized.

 

[MissAlice]

No problem, seem like I'm getting hassled from all sides though. Where are my brothers and sisters D:

Don't you know?

You're in a hot seat of hell and they're still alive.....

 

[Bismillah]

Don't you know?

You're in the hot seat of hell.....

Does this make me the missionary D:

 

[MissAlice]

Does this make me the missionary D:

Yes...yes it does.

Now have a seat until I can arrange for you to see satan himself..

 

[Bismillah]

They can also like both genders equally. The point is, you don't choose who you like, wouldn't you agree?

Perhaps, but how do you know bisexuals do not want to..."explore". It seems that while there may be cases of a Bisexual not knowing which gender is preferable, there may also be as many cases of Bisexuals drawn to the pleasure of having sex from both genders. You cannot claim that one person is Bisexual, simply because they like men and women equally. That, I think , would rarely be the case. Rather, I think it is more likely that Bisexuals engage in intercourse with both sexes for pleasure.

Either way, it hardly matters. If Bisexuals also suffered from a genetic disorder, then wouldn't that mean they'd exhibit a "normal DNA pattering" and a "abnormal patterning". Since neither this nor a Gay Gene has been found, one can logically conclude that heredity plays little to no influence on the likelihood of becoming homosexual.

But I must say that I'm a bit skeptical that it is really the accepted view that animals can go against "fitra".

Can a animal truly comprehend how its decisions will affect it later in life? No, animals, while aware of their place in the world, act in accordance to primal urges. Sex is one of the most fundamental of these urges. If an animal succumbs to this urge, and it will, then it will not think anything of it. If there is a lack of females then it will engage in activities in accordance with homosexuality. Strictly speaking of course, it is not homosexual until the Penis penetrates the Anus, the point Fatihah was making. So while they may engage in sexual activities, the question whether they are homosexual in an Islamic sense was what was being debated prior.

 

[Commoner]

Yes...yes it does.

Now have a seat until I can arrange for you to see satan himself..

Did someone call me:fork:?

 

[Aquitaine]

Yes...yes it does.

Now have a seat until I can arrange for you to see satan himself..

It's not gonna happen anytime soon. Just got off the phone to Satan's Secretary, he's stuck in traffic at the moment.

 

[Kerr]

Perhaps, but how do you know bisexuals do not want to..."explore". It seems that while there may be cases of a Bisexual not knowing which gender is preferable, there may also be as many cases of Bisexuals drawn to the pleasure of having sex from both genders. You cannot claim that one person is Bisexual, simply because they like men and women equally. That, I think , would rarely be the case. Rather, I think it is more likely that Bisexuals engage in intercourse with both sexes for pleasure.

If they are sexually and/or emotionally attracted to both genders they are bisexual.

 

[Gharib]

Alrighty then. an opinion starts with words like "I believe" or "I think". When you present your opinion without such an opening you are making a statement.

unfortunately, thats just your oppinion on what a statement might be. proves nothing. good try though.

 

[Commoner]

Perhaps, but how do you know bisexuals do not want to..."explore". It seems that while there may be cases of a Bisexual not knowing which gender is preferable, there may also be as many cases of Bisexuals drawn to the pleasure of having sex from both genders. You cannot claim that one person is Bisexual, simply because they like men and women equally. That, I think , would rarely be the case. Rather, I think it is more likely that Bisexuals engage in intercourse with both sexes for pleasure.

Either way, it hardly matters. If Bisexuals also suffered from a genetic disorder, then wouldn't that mean they'd exhibit a "normal DNA pattering" and a "abnormal patterning". Since neither this nor a Gay Gene has been found, one can logically conclude that heredity plays little to no influence on the likelihood of becoming homosexual.

Hehe, that's a bit strong. We don't yet know which genes or combination of genes contribute to specific attributes. There are easier ways of finding out if a trait is strongly influenced by genetics, and certainly our lack of knowledge is no proof of anything.

In fact, studies seem to indicate that indeed it is a genetic trait: Gay brains structured like those of the opposite sex - life - 16 June 2008 - New Scientist