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Proving the existence of Allah (swt) to an atheist

S

Sententia

Well-Known Member
eselam said:
about that, there aren't any contradictions in the quran. see if there were i wouldn't be a muslim. the quran states that it is perfect, has got no errors. but if there was an error or a contradiction then the quran would be wrong saying it is error free.
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That is blatantly false.
 
K

Kerr

Well-Known Member
Fatihah said:
Response: For the same reasons why a person defends any other lie. They want to be right and refuse to acknowledge that their completely wrong. It's called ego. However, the reason behind wanting to be right will vary depending on the person.
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On a small scale that might have been a possibility, even though it would be unlikely, but on the scale we are talking about it is only irrational to assume the other side is just sticking with their idea because of pride.
 
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S

Sententia

Well-Known Member
MSizer said:
Zakir Naik is an embarassment to humanity. If I were a muslim I'd beg him to shut his mouth, and stop dragging all of the gullible people out to his talks. He's to islam like jerry fallwell is to christianity.
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What I always think is odd.... is Zakir accepts islam but has no problem being a skeptic and dissecting the bible: YouTube - HINDU GIRL CONVERTED ISLAM BY DR ZAKIR NAIK

That is willing to overlook any problems with his belief but very skeptical about anything else.
 
MSizer

MSizer

MSizer
nameless said:
it is all drama happening there, those people are pretending to be atheist, everything is planned to show before the big audience.
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Oh come on now, you can't be serious! That would mean that muslims would be bearing false witness! Surely that's not possible! They base their lives on a "perfect" book.
 
Bismillah

Bismillah

Submit
Your friend Esalam doesn't seem to agree. Is this the mainstream view?
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I don't know, I haven't seen any Qur'an verses to indicate so...

Hehe, you didn't read that very well, did you. :)
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Care to elaborate?

We don't need evidence to the contrary, as there is no evidence to support it in the first place. You're the one making the claim, so you're the one who has to do the proving.
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I have already posted these verses. Do you want me to hold your hand and provide a synopsis of the whole thread as it is now, as well?
 
K

Kerr

Well-Known Member
I have already posted these verses. Do you want me to hold your hand and provide a synopsis of the whole thread as it is now, as well?
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All my respects to you and your faith, but verses are not good sources of information on subjects like these.
 
Bismillah

Bismillah

Submit
I find it amusing that no one posting in this thread is probably gay. I know im not. Although i don't know for sure and i really don't care how other posters live their lives, its good to see people standing up for the common good of equality
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I never said anyone in this thread is Gay. I just commented how the Gay community can rally together as effectively or to a greater degree then political organizations.
 
Bismillah

Bismillah

Submit
All my respects to you and your faith, but verses are not good sources of information on subjects like these.
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But the subject of matter is if my faith ascribes animals as possessing something greater then inherent knowledge. Surely the Qur'an is necessary to understand the answer?

As for my views/assumptions/thoughts on homosexuality, I have yet to use the Qur'an as something to base facts off of. I know it won't convince you lot!
 
K

Kerr

Well-Known Member
But the subject of matter is if my faith ascribes animals as possessing something greater then inherent knowledge. Surely the Qur'an is necessary to understand the answer?
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Not if you wish to prove that they actually have some sort of free will. To be honest is it would not surprise me if we have underestimated many animals. However, I just do not think religious verses can prove it. And I do not think, in lack of better ways to put it, that if they have free will would have it the same way as we do, and it would probably be different from specie to specie. Assuming they have free will.

I apologize if I have misunderstood, have not slept that well, so I am bound to misunderstand somewhere, lol.

As for my views/assumptions/thoughts on homosexuality, I have yet to use the Qur'an as something to base facts off of. I know it won't convince you lot!
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I have not seen any argument that has convinved me so far, the religious ones are just even less likely to convince me ;).
 
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Bismillah

Bismillah

Submit
Not if you wish to prove that they actually have some sort of free will. To be honest is it would not surprise me if we have underestimated many animals. However, I just do not think religious verses can prove it. And I do not think, in lack of better ways to put it, that if they have free will would have it the same way as we do, and it would probably be different from specie to specie. Assuming they have free will.
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Well, we're arguing whether animals are said to have freewill in Islam no? This is a religious interpretation. The other pictures of homosexual animals or not is just evidence if animals have a choice in their sexual desires. You have been arguing over Fatihah over the second, I am wondering why it matters in religious context.

I have not seen any argument that has convinved me so far, the religious ones are just even less likely to convince me
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Likewise :p You have also given me the intellectual high ground by saying you are stoopid :D
 
K

Kerr

Well-Known Member
Well, we're arguing whether animals are said to have freewill in Islam no? This is a religious interpretation. The other pictures of homosexual animals or not is just evidence if animals have a choice in their sexual desires. You have been arguing over Fatihah over the second, I am wondering why it matters in religious context.
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I edited my post explaining I may have misunderstood (have not slept well :p). Ironically I also forgot to complete the edit for the same reason, so you probably missed it.

And about the animals, it does not mean they have a choice.
 
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