Which is your personal opinion. Does not mean they are comparable or the same, because they have a very different nature to take into consideration as well.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Proving the existence of Allah (swt) to an atheist
- Thread starter Gharib
- Start date
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
animals do have free will but not in the same sense as man. a dog will choose for itself something over another thing. thats all though. dogs and *****es don't go having sex anytime they want, only when the female is ready. Allah has set their role on earth and they do it. all the animals even the earth just as it;s fruits were created to serve man. mans free will is superior to all other creatures.
Commoner
Headache
But you don't seem to understand that 30%, assuming that 10% of the population is gay (which, I think is a very high estimation), still means that 66,6% of the influence could be assigned to genetics.
If you follow that definition abnormal does not need to be bad. Fact is it is quite neutral.Yes
"ab·nor·mal (b-nôr
m
l)adj. Not typical, usual, or regular; not normal; deviant."
abnormal - definition of abnormal by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
Though if something is abnormal, then it doesn't necessarily mean that it is harmful (see redhead), that is just the connotation of the word and the thing that comes to mind.
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
it's sopposed to be my oppinion. i said "i find them the same" and you asked for my oppinion why that is.
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
and??
Commoner
Headache
To which you answered that both are immoral and disgusting.
... I just do not get why the word even have relevance in that case?
Bismillah
Submit
Sheikh Jadul-Haq `Ali Jadul-Haq, former Grand Sheikh of Al-Azhar, on the modes of dealing with the hermaphrodite:
Islam urges Muslims to seek medication. When a trustworthy Muslim doctor decides that a certain operation is important for a patient, it becomes obligatory for the person concerned to carry out that operation. Among the religious rulings pertaining to the hermaphrodite is the one stating that a hermaphrodite is not allowed to mix with women, due to the fact that the gender has not been determined yet. The same thing explains the reason why it is not allowed for a hermaphrodite to mix with men. In case a hermaphrodite is in one place with women, he should be placed in front of them while when with men, he is to sit behind them.
Therefore, it is clear juristically that, given his/her yet undetermined gender, hermaphrodites cannot mix with either men or women until after medication, carried out by a Muslim and competent doctor, which will determine his/her sex. The prohibition of mixing with males or females aims at evading any corruption that may occur in that case.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Well I am very disappointed that Eselam did not grab the bull by the horns and decide to pepper me with questions. I can only surmise he was not particularly serious in his request to talk to a real live gay person to prove his quaint little theory.
I will say that Abibi does raise the bar on the conversation far above both Eselam and Fatihah's capabilities. Perhaps they should take the hint and just read and maybe even learn a thing or two.
I am still curious as to how this all is meant to prove the existence of Allah to atheists however. So far we only have proof that some Muslims are not terribly knowledgeable but don't let that fact hold them back from posting their abject drivel.
I will say that Abibi does raise the bar on the conversation far above both Eselam and Fatihah's capabilities. Perhaps they should take the hint and just read and maybe even learn a thing or two.
I am still curious as to how this all is meant to prove the existence of Allah to atheists however. So far we only have proof that some Muslims are not terribly knowledgeable but don't let that fact hold them back from posting their abject drivel.
Last edited:
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
i never said that they would definately commit suicide (god knows it could lead to suicide).
well i know someone whose about 14-15 and his dad died when he was pretty young.
i never mentione things about dads and all that. he gets very deppresed and sad that he never got to know his dad. he probably doesn't think about it all that much appart from times when hes dad should have been there just as every other kids dad is.
how do you know they can't? you don't speak their language.
the fact that they are part of a family that isn't like all the rest. how would you feel to have 2 dads or 2 mothers?
or what about if you were a girl? wheres the motherly advice for many things?
or where is the mothers love in general to those who have 2 dads? and vice versa.
yeah i know. so aks them why they suddenly chose to be homosexual after all these years, they'll say "i always felt different, since childhood. i think i've been like this since i was born"
will do, i'll let you know when i get something.
Bismillah
Submit
Sheikh Muhammad Iqbal Nadvi, Imam of Calgary Mosque, Canada, and Former Professor at King Saud Univ., Saudi Arabia, answers:
Let me first establish some related fundamentals, so it will be easy to understand the Islamic ruling regarding to above-mentioned situation.
1. Almighty Allah created humans in two genders, male and female. This is has been stated in many verses:
“O mankind! Be careful of your duty to your Lord Who created you from a single soul and from it created its mate and from them twain hath spread abroad a multitude of men and women.” (An-Nisaa’:1)
“O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female.” (Al-Hujurat: 13)
“And that He createth the two spouses, the male and the female.” (An-Najm: 45)
Also refer to Surat Al-Layl: 3, and Ash-Shura: 49. Allah the Almighty also says in Surat Al `Imran, verse 36, that “the male is not as the female”
And in Surat Al-Layl He says: "Lo! your effort is dispersed (toward diverse ends).”
2. Allah, the Almighty, also said that He created every human being with Fitra (nature) that suits him or her. Since Fitra is an inbuilt system designed to suit every creation, the Fitra of a male is different from the Fitra of a female.
3. Allah, Exalted be He, also made it clear to us that when the Shaitan (Satan) challenged to deviate humans he said he would let them change the creation of Allah, the Almighty. Allah says: “And surely I will command them and they will change Allah's creation.” (An-Nisa’: 119)
4. Every rule has an exception, so the hermaphrodite gender is an exception, and as it indicates, it is not a standard, but only a sign of Allah's Power of creation, for a wisdom He knows better.
5. The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, has invoked the curse of Allah, the Almighty, upon “a male who imitates a female or vice versa.” This Hadith is about the matters of dress and fashion, but it also explains the importance of gender in Islam. So, if an imitation in outward appearance is counted as a sin, then by Qiyas (analogy), a total change in gender will be even more sinful act.
6. Allah, Glorified be He, says: “And covet not the thing in which Allah hath made some of you excel others. Unto men a fortune from that which they have earned, and unto women a fortune from that which they have earned. (Envy not one another) but ask Allah of His bounty. Lo! Allah is ever Knower of all things.” (An-Nisa’: 32)
This means that Allah, the Almighty, created each of us in one gender, in one shape, while he or she likes another gender, but as a Muslim and believer he or she has to accept the destiny of Allah.
In the light of the above-mentioned basic facts, I would conclude by saying that it is not allowed in Islam to change the gender, and doing so will be changing of Allah’s creation.
The only exception to this ruling is related to a person who has both genders potential in body, so a medical treatment can be sought to unify one gender. In this case it will be a correction, and not a change in the creation of Allah, the Almighty. This issue has been previously discussed by our earlier Fuqahaa’ (jurists) and the same ruling has been given.
In shedding more light on the prohibition of sex change (save the medical necessities mentioned above), Sheikh M. S. Al-Munajjid, a prominent Saudi Islamic lecturer and author states:
"It is not permissible for a person to have gender operation; from male to female or vice versa. Every Muslim has to be content with what Allah has decreed for him/her, for He has placed him in a suitable position. He/she does not know what is good for him/her; (being a male) perhaps if he was created female, that would not be good for him, or (being a female) if she was created male, that would be bad for her. By the same token, there are some people for whom nothing but poverty is good, and if Allah made such a person rich it would be harmful for him; and there are others for whom nothing but richness is appropriate, and if they became poor that would be harmful to them.
Some women wished they had been created men so they could fight in the way of Allah. This was just wishful thinking, but Allah revealed the prohibition of that wishful thinking in the ayah (Qur'anic verse):
"And wish not for the things in which Allah has made some of you to excel others. For men there is reward for what they have earned, (and likewise) for women there is reward for what they have earned.” (An-Nisa’:32)
If mere wishful thinking is forbidden, then how about taking action upon such thinking? If a Muslim is forbidden to change the creation of Allah in minor cases, so how about changing sex altogether?
Sheikh `Abd Al-Karim Al-Khudayr states:
Changing one’s sex is a kind of tampering with the creation of Allah and following the way of the Shaitan (Satan) who vowed that he would misguide the sons of Adam in this way and in others, as clarified in the verse: “And surely I will command them and they will change Allah's creation.” (An-Nisa’: 119) We pray to Allah to keep us safe and sound."
Let me first establish some related fundamentals, so it will be easy to understand the Islamic ruling regarding to above-mentioned situation.
1. Almighty Allah created humans in two genders, male and female. This is has been stated in many verses:
“O mankind! Be careful of your duty to your Lord Who created you from a single soul and from it created its mate and from them twain hath spread abroad a multitude of men and women.” (An-Nisaa’:1)
“O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female.” (Al-Hujurat: 13)
“And that He createth the two spouses, the male and the female.” (An-Najm: 45)
Also refer to Surat Al-Layl: 3, and Ash-Shura: 49. Allah the Almighty also says in Surat Al `Imran, verse 36, that “the male is not as the female”
And in Surat Al-Layl He says: "Lo! your effort is dispersed (toward diverse ends).”
2. Allah, the Almighty, also said that He created every human being with Fitra (nature) that suits him or her. Since Fitra is an inbuilt system designed to suit every creation, the Fitra of a male is different from the Fitra of a female.
3. Allah, Exalted be He, also made it clear to us that when the Shaitan (Satan) challenged to deviate humans he said he would let them change the creation of Allah, the Almighty. Allah says: “And surely I will command them and they will change Allah's creation.” (An-Nisa’: 119)
4. Every rule has an exception, so the hermaphrodite gender is an exception, and as it indicates, it is not a standard, but only a sign of Allah's Power of creation, for a wisdom He knows better.
5. The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, has invoked the curse of Allah, the Almighty, upon “a male who imitates a female or vice versa.” This Hadith is about the matters of dress and fashion, but it also explains the importance of gender in Islam. So, if an imitation in outward appearance is counted as a sin, then by Qiyas (analogy), a total change in gender will be even more sinful act.
6. Allah, Glorified be He, says: “And covet not the thing in which Allah hath made some of you excel others. Unto men a fortune from that which they have earned, and unto women a fortune from that which they have earned. (Envy not one another) but ask Allah of His bounty. Lo! Allah is ever Knower of all things.” (An-Nisa’: 32)
This means that Allah, the Almighty, created each of us in one gender, in one shape, while he or she likes another gender, but as a Muslim and believer he or she has to accept the destiny of Allah.
In the light of the above-mentioned basic facts, I would conclude by saying that it is not allowed in Islam to change the gender, and doing so will be changing of Allah’s creation.
The only exception to this ruling is related to a person who has both genders potential in body, so a medical treatment can be sought to unify one gender. In this case it will be a correction, and not a change in the creation of Allah, the Almighty. This issue has been previously discussed by our earlier Fuqahaa’ (jurists) and the same ruling has been given.
In shedding more light on the prohibition of sex change (save the medical necessities mentioned above), Sheikh M. S. Al-Munajjid, a prominent Saudi Islamic lecturer and author states:
"It is not permissible for a person to have gender operation; from male to female or vice versa. Every Muslim has to be content with what Allah has decreed for him/her, for He has placed him in a suitable position. He/she does not know what is good for him/her; (being a male) perhaps if he was created female, that would not be good for him, or (being a female) if she was created male, that would be bad for her. By the same token, there are some people for whom nothing but poverty is good, and if Allah made such a person rich it would be harmful for him; and there are others for whom nothing but richness is appropriate, and if they became poor that would be harmful to them.
Some women wished they had been created men so they could fight in the way of Allah. This was just wishful thinking, but Allah revealed the prohibition of that wishful thinking in the ayah (Qur'anic verse):
"And wish not for the things in which Allah has made some of you to excel others. For men there is reward for what they have earned, (and likewise) for women there is reward for what they have earned.” (An-Nisa’:32)
If mere wishful thinking is forbidden, then how about taking action upon such thinking? If a Muslim is forbidden to change the creation of Allah in minor cases, so how about changing sex altogether?
Sheikh `Abd Al-Karim Al-Khudayr states:
Changing one’s sex is a kind of tampering with the creation of Allah and following the way of the Shaitan (Satan) who vowed that he would misguide the sons of Adam in this way and in others, as clarified in the verse: “And surely I will command them and they will change Allah's creation.” (An-Nisa’: 119) We pray to Allah to keep us safe and sound."
Commoner
Headache
It doesn't. It leads to 2/3 of the influence being due to the same genes.
If you consider that an average person has a 10% chance of being gay (that's a really high estimate, I think) and a gay person's twin has a 30% chance of being gay - then the twin has a 200% higher chance of being gay. Therefore, 2/3 of the influence could (at least if we simplify things to an extreme degree) be ascribed to genetics.
If you consider the other example of 50% and a little lover percentage of homosexuals in the population (let's say 5%) - that would imply a 900% increase - and 90% of the influence being due to genetics.
Of course, I'm just playing with numbers - but my point was, you have to take into account the percantage of homosexuals in the general population as well as the chance of a twin being gay to get an actual representation of what the numbers mean.
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
everyone is male or female. have you seen anyone without any private parts?
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
Some people are born with both. Lady Gaga????? That awful singer off our radio?
What about those that are not aware of it?
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
what do you mean with both?