Proving the existence of Allah (swt) to an atheist

[Gharib]

A guardian is guarding me, they do not have the right to do some things. If my parents for example abused me they would have lost their right to be my guardians. It is my life, they just helped me evolve into the man I am.

An owner would have the authority over me as if I where a slave. Which I am not, and nor to I believe such a thing can exist, because in my view slavery, in any form, is wrong.

welcome to islam.

 

[Commoner]

i see an error in your post. if i was to convince myself that the quran is error free, then that means i would be shut to ideas put forwad by others in this case you.

i know how to answer you, but the fact that i am not a scholar doesn't permit me to do so. GET IT???? i doubt you do but what the heck.

If you are not permitted to answer, you should not claim to know the answer. GET IT????

 

[YmirGF]

If you are not permitted to answer, you should not claim to know the answer. GET IT????

You have to try to appreciate where Eselam is coming from. Muslims are simply not free to give their viewpoint in a public setting in regards to the finer points of Islam.

Since Eselam seems to have me on ignore, you might want to ask him if he has a link that will explain his position from the scholar's POV.

 

[kai]

i've never said that the universe and everything in it is explained in the quran and we don't need anything else.

if you think this is what i've said then please show me.

Let me put it this way , The Quran is the ultimate reference source for the universe and everything in it , if a piece of data is at odds with the Quran it must be rejected right?

 

[Gharib]

Let me put it this way , The Quran is the ultimate reference source for the universe and everything in it ,

what do you mean by reference source? the quran is a guidance, a law for man kind to live by.

if a piece of data is at odds with the Quran it must be rejected right?

wrong. but you being a non muslim do not understand the views of islam concerning some or many matters. i mean if i posted a verse that says Allah exists, will you accept that?

the quran and islam is to a muslim like science is to an atheist. Atheists have no other thing to be reliant upon other than science. if i say Allah exists no one will accept it because it is contradictory to science, we cannot physically see or touch Allah. where as science is part of islam. it was the quran that influenced many early scholars to dicover things.

 

[Bismillah]

Actually, there are verses in the Qu'ran and the Hadith that sate and imply that Animals are born with knowledge and consciousness that exceeds innate knowledge. Though an animal's knowledge is most certainly subordinate to that of a human's, animal knowledge is believed to be greater then just natural disposition.

 

[Gharib]

Actually, there are verses in the Qu'ran and the Hadith that sate and imply that Animals are born with knowledge and consciousness that exceeds innate knowledge. Though an animal's knowledge is most certainly subordinate to that of a human's, animal knowledge is believed to be greater then just natural disposition.

this is something new. i can't seem to remember any such verses or hadith, would you know where i can read about this?

 

[Bismillah]

Sure!

Seest thou not that it is Allah Whose praises are celebrated by all beings in the heavens and on earth, and by the birds with extended wings? Each one knows its prayer and psalm, And Allah is aware of what they do. (Qur'an 24:41) The fact that each animal knows its prayer and psalm indicates that each animal knows and realizes its place in the world and its duty to Allah. To know one's place in the world is to be consciously aware of oneself and one's surroundings.

There is a Hadith where a camel seeks the Prophet to complain that despite its compliance and loyalty to its owner, the owner still plans on killing it. The Prophet instructs the owner to spare the animal (and to free it?. This is all from memory). This not only suggests but asserts that animals, in Islam, do have a higher thought process then a projected knee jerk reaction.

 

[England my lionheart]

what do you mean by reference source? the quran is a guidance, a law for man kind to live by.


wrong. but you being a non muslim do not understand the views of islam concerning some or many matters. i mean if i posted a verse that says Allah exists, will you accept that?

the quran and islam is to a muslim like science is to an atheist. Atheists have no other thing to be reliant upon other than science. if i say Allah exists no one will accept it because it is contradictory to science, we cannot physically see or touch Allah. where as science is part of islam. it was the quran that influenced many early scholars to dicover things.

Eselam i think the parameters of your reasoning cannot go beyond the boundaries of the Qur'an,there are examples of this in claims like "Mountains are Pegs" you as a Mulim cannot reason beyond this and have to accept it as true whereas people who read scripture but don't take it literally can,like Athiests ,Agnostics etc.
The Muslims A-Z of life the Qur'an has all the boundaries for your reasoning and these boundaries are 1400 years old which is why the claimed scientific miracles of the Qur'an have been exposed by contemporary science as not very miraculous at all.
Arguably the Golden period for Islam was the Middle ages regarding science,building on the work of Galen,Hippocrates and Indian Phyicians Shusruta and Charaka they did make advances but the basis for it certainly did'nt come from the Qur'an so to say the Qur'an influenced many early scholars regarding science would not be true.

 

[Commoner]

this is something new. i can't seem to remember any such verses or hadith, would you know where i can read about this?

So I guess the question is, which one of you has no idea what they're talking about?

 

[Commoner]

i see an error in your post. if i was to convince myself that the quran is error free, then that means i would be shut to ideas put forwad by others in this case you.

i know how to answer you, but the fact that i am not a scholar doesn't permit me to do so. GET IT???? i doubt you do but what the heck.

You have to try to appreciate where Eselam is coming from. Muslims are simply not free to give their viewpoint in a public setting in regards to the finer points of Islam.

Since Eselam seems to have me on ignore, you might want to ask him if he has a link that will explain his position from the scholar's POV.

Esalam, as you cannot express your own views, would you please provide an answer of a scholar?

I'm sure that, since this is such a popular topic, it must have already been answered. And since you claim to know the answer, you must have gotten it from somewhere (unless your "answer" is strictly a product of your own interpretation - which I guess would be a no-no anyway).

So please, provide an answer that resolves the contradiction I have presented.

EDIT: I would like to point out that if you are going to argue a point, you should be able to back it up with facts and explanations. If you have personal restrictions that prevent you from openly presenting your viewpoints, you are the one that needs to find a way to get around that. That's not my problem and if you feel that you can't back up your claims, for whatever reason, simply don't make them!

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

Zakir Naik is a fool. No real logic in his statements. Just the average rethoric.

 

[Gharib]

Esalam, as you cannot express your own views, would you please provide an answer of a scholar?

I'm sure that, since this is such a popular topic, it must have already been answered. And since you claim to know the answer, you must have gotten it from somewhere (unless your "answer" is strictly a product of your own interpretation - which I guess would be a no-no anyway).

So please, provide an answer that resolves the contradiction I have presented.

EDIT: I would like to point out that if you are going to argue a point, you should be able to back it up with facts and explanations. If you have personal restrictions that prevent you from openly presenting your viewpoints, you are the one that needs to find a way to get around that. That's not my problem and if you feel that you can'tback up your claims, for whatever reason, simply don't make them!

hey i can't find an answer concerning animal homosexuality, i guess the question has not been asked.

and the reason why i can't answer you is cos what i think is the answer is just my oppinion rather than be an official islamic oppinion. thats why i can't asnwer you on this. never the less there is no contradiction about this in the quran, since you don't know what islam says about it. good luck on something else.

 

[Gharib]

So I guess the question is, which one of you has no idea what they're talking about?

that would be you. according to me.

 

[monta]

It is very kind of Eselem to go against the Qur'an and engage with atheists, maybe we should cut him some slack for his obvious rebel nature in chosen to disregard an instruction so clear even a non Muslim can understand it, he is more like an atheist than a Muslim really if you think about it.

 

[Gharib]

Eselam i think the parameters of your reasoning cannot go beyond the boundaries of the Qur'an,there are examples of this in claims like "Mountains are Pegs" you as a Mulim cannot reason beyond this and have to accept it as true whereas people who read scripture but don't take it literally can,like Athiests ,Agnostics etc.

no i don't have to stop there. there is much more about mountains than what the quran says about them, it would be foolish to say mountains are pegs and thats it.

The Muslims A-Z of life the Qur'an has all the boundaries for your reasoning and these boundaries are 1400 years old which is why the claimed scientific miracles of the Qur'an have been exposed by contemporary science as not very miraculous at all.

why aren't they miraculous? in what way?

Arguably the Golden period for Islam was the Middle ages regarding science,building on the work of Galen,Hippocrates and Indian Phyicians Shusruta and Charaka they did make advances but the basis for it certainly did'nt come from the Qur'an so to say the Qur'an influenced many early scholars regarding science would not be true.

i don't deny that muslim scholars used theories made by other people before them. just like you can't say that everything the non muslim world has isn't taken or based on the findings and/or teachings of islam about these many things used in the modern days.

it is a muslims dutie to educate himself, to search for knowledge. that is the teaching of prophet Muhammed (saws) from the moment we are born to the moment we die we must seek knowledge. it doesn't end at some verse or hadith.

 

[Gharib]

It is very kind of Eselem to go against the Qur'an and engage with atheists, maybe we should cut him some slack for his obvious rebel nature in chosen to disregard an instruction so clear even a non Muslim can understand it, he is more like an atheist than a Muslim really if you think about it.

what???

where have i gone against the quran?

what instruction?

i am a muslim, la ilaha ilallah muhamedur rasulullah. always have been always will be inshallah.

 

[kai]

what do you mean by reference source? the quran is a guidance, a law for man kind to live by.

Yes its also the unalterable word of god himself.

wrong. but you being a non muslim do not understand the views of islam concerning some or many matters. i mean if i posted a verse that says Allah exists, will you accept that? No of course not i would need other sources to cross reference

the quran and islam is to a muslim like science is to an atheist. Atheists have no other thing to be reliant upon other than science. if i say Allah exists no one will accept it because it is contradictory to science, we cannot physically see or touch Allah. where as science is part of islam. it was the quran that influenced many early scholars to dicover things.

Ok but you reject any scientific study that contradicts the Quran.

 

[England my lionheart]

no i don't have to stop there. there is much more about mountains than what the quran says about them, it would be foolish to say mountains are pegs and thats it.

Then you are contradicting the Qur'an



why aren't they miraculous? in what way?

Because they are so ambiguous,they are only miraculous in a 6th century context



i don't deny that muslim scholars used theories made by other people before them. just like you can't say that everything the non muslim world has isn't taken or based on the findings and/or teachings of islam about these many things used in the modern days.

Like what

it is a muslims dutie to educate himself, to search for knowledge. that is the teaching of prophet Muhammed (saws) from the moment we are born to the moment we die we must seek knowledge. it doesn't end at some verse or hadith.

But it does end at the Qur'an and ahadith for many Muslims

 

[Gharib]

Ok but you reject any scientific study that contradicts the Quran.

my answer is yes to your first statement.

as for this, how sure are you that science never makes a mistake? that the answer which is obtaind about something is the final answer and there would not be a better understanding of a thing in the future? can you prove that science never makes a mistake? islamicly speaking man always makes a mistake.